IDM Mailing Archive

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet... Why not just encode all your cd's to high quality mp3's (lets not start an argument about being able to hear the difference please!) and store them all on a few massive usb/firewire hd's. A bit of an expensive option maybe but considering the ease of use this affords (finding shit, arranging playlists, not having to cart around tons of cd's) it should be worth it for those of us with massive collections. It's also a great way to hear music you forgot you had when you leave it on random. Obviously not an option for those weirdo's who think the cd case is important, or you could mix it with a cataloging system (ie. find it on the computer - gives u a row,col ref) for the best of both worlds. skism. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I was actually thinking about doing this the other day. Not long ago I was hearing about the next hot audio compression scheme thats going to be smaller than mp3 and have better sound. Anyone know the info on this stuff? -Aaron On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 11:29 AM, skism wrote:

quoted 27 lines Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet...

> > Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet... > > Why not just encode all your cd's to high quality mp3's (lets not > start an argument about being able to hear the difference please!) > and store them all on a few massive usb/firewire hd's. > > A bit of an expensive option maybe but considering the ease of use > this affords (finding shit, arranging playlists, not having to cart > around tons of cd's) it should be worth it for those of us with > massive collections. > > It's also a great way to hear music you forgot you had when you > leave it on random. > > Obviously not an option for those weirdo's who think the cd case > is important, or you could mix it with a cataloging system (ie. > find it on the computer - gives u a row,col ref) for the best of > both worlds. > > skism. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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mp3pro is a pretty impressive format very small in size http://www.mp3prozone.com/ -s -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Meyers [mailto:adm226@nyu.edu] Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 11:50 AM To: cazeone@ramdis.com Cc: idm-l Subject: Re: [idm] mass storage I was actually thinking about doing this the other day. Not long ago I was hearing about the next hot audio compression scheme thats going to be smaller than mp3 and have better sound. Anyone know the info on this stuff? -Aaron On Monday, July 15, 2002, at 11:29 AM, skism wrote:

quoted 27 lines Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet...

> > Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet... > > Why not just encode all your cd's to high quality mp3's (lets not > start an argument about being able to hear the difference please!) > and store them all on a few massive usb/firewire hd's. > > A bit of an expensive option maybe but considering the ease of use > this affords (finding shit, arranging playlists, not having to cart > around tons of cd's) it should be worth it for those of us with > massive collections. > > It's also a great way to hear music you forgot you had when you > leave it on random. > > Obviously not an option for those weirdo's who think the cd case > is important, or you could mix it with a cataloging system (ie. > find it on the computer - gives u a row,col ref) for the best of > both worlds. > > skism. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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At 10:29 AM 7/15/2002, skism wrote:

quoted 5 lines Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet...

>Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet... > >Why not just encode all your cd's to high quality mp3's (lets not >start an argument about being able to hear the difference please!) >and store them all on a few massive usb/firewire hd's.

What you dismiss as an irrelevant difference is not such a thing to many. Additionally, those few, massive hd's will limit access/playability a great degree. That hard drive doesn't slip into my car or another CD player quite so easily.

quoted 12 lines A bit of an expensive option maybe but considering the ease of use

>A bit of an expensive option maybe but considering the ease of use >this affords (finding shit, arranging playlists, not having to cart >around tons of cd's) it should be worth it for those of us with >massive collections. > >It's also a great way to hear music you forgot you had when you >leave it on random. > >Obviously not an option for those weirdo's who think the cd case >is important, or you could mix it with a cataloging system (ie. >find it on the computer - gives u a row,col ref) for the best of >both worlds.

It's not only expensive, but when you are dealing with 7000 + CD collections you are also talking about a GREAT deal of time to encode all of these and hope the encoding went without glitches (unless you want to play each one back to see) - elsewise you may find your rare hard copy gone and an unlistenable mess in its place. This might be a good option for some, but I'm betting that it won't be for many of us who have objections beyond the need for a jewel case. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines What you dismiss as an irrelevant difference is not such a thing to many.

> What you dismiss as an irrelevant difference is not such a thing to many. > Additionally, those few, massive hd's will limit access/playability a

great

quoted 3 lines degree.

> degree. > That hard drive doesn't slip into my car or another CD player > quite so easily.

That might be true at the moment, but give it a few years and things will improve; interconectivity, bandwidth & storage space are all going to get better so you will be able to slip them into your car no problem (im sure you could figure out a way of doing it now anyway) And if you get usb/firewire it should all be forward compatible for a good while...

quoted 5 lines It's not only expensive, but when you are dealing with 7000 + CD

> It's not only expensive, but when you are dealing with 7000 + CD > collections you are also talking about a GREAT deal of time to encode all > of these and hope the encoding went without glitches (unless you want to > play each one back to see) - elsewise you may find your rare hard > copy gone and an unlistenable mess in its place.

Just as long as you're using the right software (lame for encoding & eac for the ripping) and have a fast enough chip you should never get any encoding glitches. It will take a ridiculously long time tough... but worth it in my oppinon. skism... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines mp3pro is a pretty impressive format

> mp3pro is a pretty impressive format > very small in size > http://www.mp3prozone.com/ > -s

it is small in size, but you can *really* tell the difference in terms of sound quality, so, mp3pro for something like this is a *big* no no. mp3 or, logically, ogg vorbis are the most acceptable solutions for this kind of thing, being ogg the best one in terms of quality/size, even though its not so widely spread. fred -- Frederico Oliveira Enough Records // enoughrecords.com_ Stylevictim // stylevictim.com_ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 07:12 PM 7/15/2002 +0100, you wrote:

quoted 10 lines mp3pro is a pretty impressive format

> > mp3pro is a pretty impressive format > > very small in size > > http://www.mp3prozone.com/ > > -s > >it is small in size, but you can *really* tell the difference in terms of >sound quality, so, mp3pro for something like this is a *big* no no. mp3 or, >logically, ogg vorbis are the most acceptable solutions for this kind of >thing, being ogg the best one in terms of quality/size, even though its not >so widely spread.

One of the big problems with compressed digital audio is that all of the new consumer toys coming out are mp3-oriented. It's nice to burn a cd with 6-7 hours of audio and plop it into your car -- a hell of a lot nicer than popping the trunk every few miles to swap out your 10 cds :) It wouldn't surprise me if they start producing portable audio units with multiple codecs rather soon, though -- I think there's the possibility for a market there, especially when you get those cd-player marketting weirdos on the job, touting the different codes and the amount you can squeeze onto different cd's. We'll see, I guess. For now, I'm keeping my stuff in mp3 though. derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- with lather thingy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines It wouldn't surprise me if they start producing portable audio units with

> It wouldn't surprise me if they start producing portable audio units with > multiple codecs rather soon, though -- I think there's the possibility for > a market there, especially when you get those cd-player marketting weirdos > on the job, touting the different codes and the amount you can squeeze

onto

quoted 1 line different cd's.

> different cd's.

They allready do, the creative nomad supports ogg, wav & mp3 and is upgradable also... skism --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 15 Jul 2002 at 13:48, EggyToast wrote:

quoted 2 lines One of the big problems with compressed digital audio is that all of the

> One of the big problems with compressed digital audio is that all of the > new consumer toys coming out are mp3-oriented.

And we believe that MP3's are here to stay, or will they also soon Betamax out of existence, making all our libraries obsolete and unplayable?? In fact, will the CD format not soon be overtaken by DVD's, rendering what we've collected fairly archaic? I don't know... I just get depressed at the amount of money invested in this format, only to see it wiped out in a few years time. What say you? I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Ogg vorbis, welcome to the audio of the future, its an open format, so you can read the source code and decoders/encoders have the source freely available. CD, DVD, Mp3, these are all commercial formats with patents owned by commercial entities and subject to the whims of the market. Ogg vorbis will be with us for millenia to come because its non-commercial, so and non-patented. On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Irene McC wrote:

quoted 26 lines On 15 Jul 2002 at 13:48, EggyToast wrote:

> On 15 Jul 2002 at 13:48, EggyToast wrote: > > > One of the big problems with compressed digital audio is that all of the > > new consumer toys coming out are mp3-oriented. > > And we believe that MP3's are here to stay, or will they also soon > Betamax out of existence, making all our libraries obsolete and > unplayable?? > > In fact, will the CD format not soon be overtaken by DVD's, rendering > what we've collected fairly archaic? > > I don't know... I just get depressed at the amount of money invested > in this format, only to see it wiped out in a few years time. > > What say you? > > I > * > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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A DVD can store 5-10 times as much data as an audio CD, which allows for much higher audio resolution and/or sampling rates when used for two channel audio. dan On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, skism wrote:

quoted 3 lines I can't see that happening, there isn't really any benefit from DVD's

> I can't see that happening, there isn't really any benefit from DVD's > besides Dolby5.1 and maybe extra additional data (videos or something). > Most people just want to listen to music though.

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Which would be good, if it's used, but remember that DVD players ALL play cd's, too. So there won't be a need to upgrade anything or replace a collection. So, yay for more discs! I wouldn't worry Irene, simply because any new format will be for newer music, and your old stuff will still play just fine. I mean, look at vinyl! :D derek At 08:35 AM 7/16/2002 -0700, Dan Haskovec wrote:

quoted 17 lines A DVD can store 5-10 times as much data as an audio CD, which allows for

>A DVD can store 5-10 times as much data as an audio CD, which allows for >much higher audio resolution and/or sampling rates when used for two >channel audio. > >dan > > >On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, skism wrote: > > > I can't see that happening, there isn't really any benefit from DVD's > > besides Dolby5.1 and maybe extra additional data (videos or something). > > Most people just want to listen to music though. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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quoted 3 lines A DVD can store 5-10 times as much data as an audio CD, which allows for

> A DVD can store 5-10 times as much data as an audio CD, which allows for > much higher audio resolution and/or sampling rates when used for two > channel audio.

Yeah, but most people don't give a shit about these miniscule differences in quality, average human hearing is only so good. If there's no incentive to switch to a more expensive format then it won't happen. Even if it does take off it's not going to make much difference to peoples collections as they're relatively compatible formats. skism. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

This is true, I just go0t a 24bit 96 khz soundcard for the first time and the difference is truly stunning, Cd's sound soemwhat flat and lifeless because they're 16 bit 44.1 khz, so now that I'm hearing stuff recorded at dvd quality, I am certainly blown away. Too bad dvd is such a problematic format, with teh stupid country encryption, etc. Also it will mean that an albumn will cost even more to buy, while the artist will get even less of a cut, as its a "new format". On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Dan Haskovec wrote:

quoted 19 lines A DVD can store 5-10 times as much data as an audio CD, which allows for

> A DVD can store 5-10 times as much data as an audio CD, which allows for > much higher audio resolution and/or sampling rates when used for two > channel audio. > > dan > > > On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, skism wrote: > > > I can't see that happening, there isn't really any benefit from DVD's > > besides Dolby5.1 and maybe extra additional data (videos or something). > > Most people just want to listen to music though. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 03:43:38PM +0100, skism wrote:

quoted 9 lines One of the big problems with compressed digital audio is that all of the

> > > One of the big problems with compressed digital audio is that all of the > > > new consumer toys coming out are mp3-oriented. > > > > And we believe that MP3's are here to stay, or will they also soon > > Betamax out of existence, making all our libraries obsolete and > > unplayable?? > > That's not a problem with digital, if a new format comes along you can > just convert the whole lot to the new format in one go.

I doubt that mp3 codecs are going to go out of fashion anytime soon, the shear volume of peoples collections means that it will still be supported for at least 10 years and I don't see anybody not including the codecs in software. Adam -- "Step away from the Cathedral, This Bazaar is loaded" jabberid = quinophex@jabber.earth.li --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

as far as I'm aware the only benefit of 96khz recordings is that you can really intensively digitally edit them and experience less loss than you would at 44.1/48khz. now I havent heard a 24bit recording (yet), but I can say I've heard 20bit CD releases, and the difference was staggering :D I would definetly pay extra for some albums to get that extra shine..I think the aural exciter really pays off at this quality ;) I think Cds will be backwards compatible for a long time yet, and for tthe majority of music released on them, 16/44.1 is good enough :) thx Shawn Perwick ICQ#: 15448652 __________________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Redfern" <bredfern@calarts.edu> To: "Dan Haskovec" <dan@pry.com> Cc: "skism" <cazeone@ramdis.com>; "idm-l" <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:36 PM Subject: RE: [idm] mass storage // MP3's

quoted 17 lines This is true, I just go0t a 24bit 96 khz soundcard for the first time and

> This is true, I just go0t a 24bit 96 khz soundcard for the first time and > the difference is truly stunning, Cd's sound soemwhat flat and lifeless > because they're 16 bit 44.1 khz, so now that I'm hearing stuff recorded at > dvd quality, I am certainly blown away. Too bad dvd is such a problematic > format, with teh stupid country encryption, etc. Also it will mean that an > albumn will cost even more to buy, while the artist will get even less of > a cut, as its a "new format". > > On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Dan Haskovec wrote: > > > A DVD can store 5-10 times as much data as an audio CD, which allows for > > much higher audio resolution and/or sampling rates when used for two > > channel audio. > > > > dan > > > >

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At 03:20 PM 7/17/2002 +1200, Shawn wrote:

quoted 9 lines as far as I'm aware the only benefit of 96khz recordings is that you can

>as far as I'm aware the only benefit of 96khz recordings is that you can >really intensively digitally edit them and experience less loss than you >would at 44.1/48khz. >now I havent heard a 24bit recording (yet), but I can say I've heard 20bit >CD releases, and the difference was staggering :D I would definetly pay >extra for some albums to get that extra shine..I think the aural exciter >really pays off at this quality ;) >I think Cds will be backwards compatible for a long time yet, and for tthe >majority of music released on them, 16/44.1 is good enough :)

If they release DVD's with this, they'll OBVIOUSLY do them in multiple formats. It just makes sense with all the space they have to make sure they're compatible with older players and styles. Granted, DVD quality may be high enough anyway so consumers won't matter, but it wouldn't really surprise me if they came out with something that was dual-compatible or something funky like that. Are all modern dvd players equipped to deal with high bitrate audio? That'd be pretty cool :) derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- with lather thingy --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, EggyToast wrote:

quoted 9 lines I think Cds will be backwards compatible for a long time yet, and for tthe

> >I think Cds will be backwards compatible for a long time yet, and for tthe > >majority of music released on them, 16/44.1 is good enough :) > > If they release DVD's with this, they'll OBVIOUSLY do them in multiple > formats. It just makes sense with all the space they have to make sure > they're compatible with older players and styles. Granted, DVD quality may > be high enough anyway so consumers won't matter, but it wouldn't really > surprise me if they came out with something that was dual-compatible or > something funky like that.

Sony and Phillips recently announced a dual-compatible standard called SACD Hybrid: http://www.sacd.philips.com/sacd_format_3.html

quoted 2 lines Are all modern dvd players equipped to deal with high bitrate

> Are all modern dvd players equipped to deal with high bitrate > audio? That'd be pretty cool :)

There are two major competing standards, DVD-A and SACD. I won't bother looking at compatible players until I see some content available in one of these formats. dan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org