IDM Mailing Archive

i have found myself in the same argument over and over again, and how could i find a better group of people to ask about it than those of you on a discussion list about so-called "intelligent dance music"? and, i'll apologize in advance for those of you that think of IDM as a musical genre, because that idea is so laughable that each time i find myself in a record store and see an IDM section i cringe; however, the music discussed on this list- for the most part- could be a meta-genre in the sense that (again, i'm generalizing) it appeals to 1) musicians and other kinds of artists 2) academics & other sorts of nerds, 3) computer geeks (see #2), and 4) a handful of none-of-the-above who actually want to listen to sonically challenging music... SO, being that music discussed on this list encompasses more of a conceptual slant relying on sound design, technique, and experimentation with form, will it forever be relegated to this pretentious upper echelon of people who "understand" what that nerd behind the laptop is doing and, therefore, eliminate the dullards who listen to lite jazz and have never heard of ornette coleman- let alone miles davis? does that make the former more intelligent than the latter? do you need to know about music and art to like this shit? if the answer is yes, it's more fuel for the fire... it makes the brow even higher... please share your thoughts if you want... at least just tell me you're pretentious, too :) zak. np- oval "systemisch" (but i also brought a coldplay cd to work today) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- zachary mastoon <zacharymastoon@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 4 lines will it forever be relegated to this pretentious

> will it forever be relegated to this pretentious > upper echelon of people who > "understand" what that nerd behind the laptop is > doing and, therefore,

I have only one thing to say about this topic, which is that I freely admit to hardly ever "understanding" music. Sometimes it's better not knowing what the man behind the green curtain is really up to. If I do eventually gain some insight into some particular work, it's usually because someone else told me about it or I read it somewhere (like this list). Yeah, I'm basically a dummy. But I like the moosic... PS - why is Syndrone so good? Somebody please explain ===== .Adam http://www.damek.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I, myself, don't need to "understand" how an artist created a song or a sound or whatever. I listen to what I like to hear, and vice-versa... For instance, I have no idea how BoC comes up with the sweet tunes that they make, and I really don't care to know either. In fact, it'd almost take something away from it if I knew just how they made alot of their samples and FX. But then again that's just my 2 pennies worth. : ) Good string subject, tho. -somrux. http://www.somrux.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "zachary mastoon" <zacharymastoon@hotmail.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 8:53 AM Subject: [idm] "intelligent dance music" or music for the "intelligent"?

quoted 2 lines i have found myself in the same argument over and over again, and

> i have found myself in the same argument over and over again, and > how could i find a better group of people to ask about it than those of

you

quoted 5 lines on a discussion list about so-called "intelligent dance music"?

> on a discussion list about so-called "intelligent dance music"? > > and, i'll apologize in advance for those of you that think of IDM as a > musical genre, because that idea is so laughable that each time i find > myself in a record store and see an IDM section i cringe; however, the

music

quoted 3 lines discussed on this list- for the most part- could be a meta-genre in the

> discussed on this list- for the most part- could be a meta-genre in the > sense that (again, i'm generalizing) it appeals to 1) musicians and other > kinds of artists 2) academics & other sorts of nerds, 3) computer geeks

(see

quoted 4 lines #2), and 4) a handful of none-of-the-above who actually want to listen to

> #2), and 4) a handful of none-of-the-above who actually want to listen to > sonically challenging music... > > SO, being that music discussed on this list encompasses more of a

conceptual

quoted 2 lines slant relying on sound design, technique, and experimentation with form,

> slant relying on sound design, technique, and experimentation with form, > will it forever be relegated to this pretentious upper echelon of people

who

quoted 4 lines "understand" what that nerd behind the laptop is doing and, therefore,

> "understand" what that nerd behind the laptop is doing and, therefore, > eliminate the dullards who listen to lite jazz and have never heard of > ornette coleman- let alone miles davis? does that make the former more > intelligent than the latter? do you need to know about music and art to

like

quoted 3 lines this shit?

> this shit? > > if the answer is yes, it's more fuel for the fire... it makes the brow

even

quoted 8 lines higher...

> higher... > > please share your thoughts if you want... at least just tell me you're > pretentious, too :) > > zak. > > np- oval "systemisch" (but i also brought a coldplay cd to work today)

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quoted 5 lines ----- Original Message -----

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "zachary mastoon" <zacharymastoon@hotmail.com> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 8:53 AM > > it makes the brow even higher...

I just love this line!

quoted 1 line at least just tell me you're pretentious, too :)

> at least just tell me you're pretentious, too :)

You know who I really hate? Pretentious people who try to pretend like they're not pretentious. It's just so pretentious! You know who I really hate? Indian givers. No, I take that back. You know who I really hate? ... "Who?" ... People who imitate owls... ===== .Adam http://www.damek.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 6 lines I, myself, don't need to "understand" how an artist created a song or a

>I, myself, don't need to "understand" how an artist created a song or a >sound or whatever. I listen to what I like to hear, and vice-versa... For >instance, I have no idea how BoC comes up with the sweet tunes that they >make, and I really don't care to know either. In fact, it'd almost take >something away from it if I knew just how they made alot of their samples >and FX.

i agree with your point, but i realize i should've clarified what i mean by "understand" a bit more. well, no... let me put it this way: does it take a level of imagination or creativity or knowledge of music or art to *appreciate* it? adam: you may not know how people program synths and fuck around with complicated software, and somrux: you might not know music theory or where BOC gets their source material from, but i suppose i'm asking where people who appreciate this art are coming from- where are their heads coming from?? z _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- zachary mastoon <zacharymastoon@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 4 lines but i suppose i'm

> but i suppose i'm > asking where people who appreciate this art are > coming > from- where are their heads coming from??

My head often follows the rest of my body. My body is directed by my head. Paradox? You be the judge. Seriously? I don't see how I could possibly answer such questions. Or why anyone would want to ask them. You want me to analyze why I like this music? Create a blueprint for understanding what pushes my buttons? Try experimenting with rats first, it'll be simpler. Play them different tunes and then cut out different portions of the tracks and see what pushes their buttons. Then come back to us with a survey based on your findings. Analyze the results of the survey to find out statistically what most IDM listeners prefer in their music. Then scientifically craft music to suit the average IDM listener. Get Coca-Cola to support your efforts. Call your music Intelligent Soda Drinking Music. Have The Designer's Republic design the cans. (They'll be fluorescent pink, teal, and orange, and have lots of arrows and dots.) Disney can have Pixar create the movie... Whoops, got carried away. ===== .Adam http://www.damek.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Wait, does this thread have anything to do with why girls don't like IDM? I see a lot of similarities here; IDM seems to only appeal to suave, rational males. Please explain. -andrew --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

IDM, like NATO or even USA, is a largely historical (read: dated) term bearing little resemblence to its original usage/definition but which remains because it is somewhat familiar to a particular population. Aside from geography, there are increasingly fewer things that "unite" our "states" in this day and age; and there's nothing really "north" or "Atlantic" about Turkey or Greece being in NATO. Apply liberally to IDM. And as for knowing about music/art to like this stuff, it's not necessary but it certainly can enliven your connection to it. Understanding traditional and established musical forms *can* make listening to someone like Hrvatski, Squarepusher, or even BoC a richer personal experience--in what gears it begins turning in your mind. That's all. C'mmon, people, George Harrison is gone now. We should all be concentrating on how to boost our saccharine shields against the onslaught of cover stories and the "oh he was such a GREAT man" typhoon about to be unleashed upon us. I mean, shit...WTC, a new Jacko appearance, AND a dead Beatle, all in the same year? Arthur C. Clarke had nothing on reality... laz somrux wrote:

quoted 61 lines I, myself, don't need to "understand" how an artist created a song or a

> I, myself, don't need to "understand" how an artist created a song or a > sound or whatever. I listen to what I like to hear, and vice-versa... For > instance, I have no idea how BoC comes up with the sweet tunes that they > make, and I really don't care to know either. In fact, it'd almost take > something away from it if I knew just how they made alot of their samples > and FX. > > But then again that's just my 2 pennies worth. : ) Good string subject, > tho. > > -somrux. > http://www.somrux.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "zachary mastoon" <zacharymastoon@hotmail.com> > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 8:53 AM > Subject: [idm] "intelligent dance music" or music for the "intelligent"? > > > i have found myself in the same argument over and over again, and > > how could i find a better group of people to ask about it than those of > you > > on a discussion list about so-called "intelligent dance music"? > > > > and, i'll apologize in advance for those of you that think of IDM as a > > musical genre, because that idea is so laughable that each time i find > > myself in a record store and see an IDM section i cringe; however, the > music > > discussed on this list- for the most part- could be a meta-genre in the > > sense that (again, i'm generalizing) it appeals to 1) musicians and other > > kinds of artists 2) academics & other sorts of nerds, 3) computer geeks > (see > > #2), and 4) a handful of none-of-the-above who actually want to listen to > > sonically challenging music... > > > > SO, being that music discussed on this list encompasses more of a > conceptual > > slant relying on sound design, technique, and experimentation with form, > > will it forever be relegated to this pretentious upper echelon of people > who > > "understand" what that nerd behind the laptop is doing and, therefore, > > eliminate the dullards who listen to lite jazz and have never heard of > > ornette coleman- let alone miles davis? does that make the former more > > intelligent than the latter? do you need to know about music and art to > like > > this shit? > > > > if the answer is yes, it's more fuel for the fire... it makes the brow > even > > higher... > > > > please share your thoughts if you want... at least just tell me you're > > pretentious, too :) > > > > zak. > > > > np- oval "systemisch" (but i also brought a coldplay cd to work today) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Hmmm, well after you've clarified the question I would tend to say that, for the most part, folks don't need any specialized knowledge of music or art to n-joy "IDM". I don't think that one needs to have an overly active imagination or a creative mind to enjoy it or to understand it either. For instance, a "good friend" of mine here in Houston loves this music as much as I do. Furthermore, he is quite possibly the dullest, most un-imaginative person I have ever known in my life. He'd be content with watching reruns of spoon-fed comedy sitcoms 24/7 if he could get away with it. So i'd say "nix". I think that even the poorest, dullest bastard could n-joy this muzak just as much as the next guy. Hope that this answer was a bit closer to the mark... = ) -somrux. http://www.somrux.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "zachary mastoon" <zacharymastoon@hotmail.com> To: <bishop@somrux.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: Re: [idm] "intelligent dance music" or music for the "intelligent"?

quoted 2 lines I, myself, don't need to "understand" how an artist created a song or a

> >I, myself, don't need to "understand" how an artist created a song or a > >sound or whatever. I listen to what I like to hear, and vice-versa...

For

quoted 6 lines instance, I have no idea how BoC comes up with the sweet tunes that they

> >instance, I have no idea how BoC comes up with the sweet tunes that they > >make, and I really don't care to know either. In fact, it'd almost take > >something away from it if I knew just how they made alot of their samples > >and FX. > > i agree with your point, but i realize i should've clarified what i mean

by

quoted 1 line "understand" a bit more. well, no... let me put it this way: does it take

> "understand" a bit more. well, no... let me put it this way: does it take

a

quoted 8 lines level of imagination or creativity or knowledge of music or art to

> level of imagination or creativity or knowledge of music or art to > *appreciate* it? adam: you may not know how people program synths and fuck > around with complicated software, and somrux: you might not know music > theory or where BOC gets their source material from, but i suppose i'm > asking where people who appreciate this art are coming > from- where are their heads coming from?? > > z

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quoted 4 lines Hmmm, well after you've clarified the question I would tend to say that, for

>Hmmm, well after you've clarified the question I would tend to say that, for >the most part, folks don't need any specialized knowledge of music or art to >n-joy "IDM". I don't think that one needs to have an overly active >imagination or a creative mind to enjoy it or to understand it either.

what's the point of writing "n-joy"? you're not saving any keystrokes.... anyway, that's not why i'm posting. I just wanted to say this: like pretty much every other genre of music created in the 20th century, IDM (or electronic music or whatever you want to call it) has its roots in the working class and the poor, and it conveyed a message of hope. Space-age shit to help forget the crap of daily life. I don't think one needs an extensive education (formal or informal) to enjoy that aspect of it. And while there is a more "academic" or classically-influenced side to electronic music, I don't think it is at all inaccessible or "difficult" to understand why the artist is doing what s/he is doing without knowledge of everything that came before it or even how or when it was made. However, I think that since so much of the music produced today is directly influenced by what has come before (be it a conscious reference or a cultural influence), an understanding of "popular" music history can give some insight into where artists are coming from. gee, hope that made sense. -- - Jeremy Axon Patria o muerte! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line PS - why is Syndrone so good? Somebody please explain

> PS - why is Syndrone so good? Somebody please explain

Syndrone = Machine Drum, so the question answers itself. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Andrew Hime <hime1@gte.net> wrote:

quoted 5 lines PS - why is Syndrone so good? Somebody please

> > PS - why is Syndrone so good? Somebody please > explain > > Syndrone = Machine Drum, so the question answers > itself.

And assuming that one knows this (which one did), and that one knows that both of them are actually Travis Stewart from North Carolina (which one did), the question then takes on new meaning: why is his music so good? Perhaps it has something to do with prime numbers or the golden rectangle or something. ===== .Adam http://www.damek.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I write "n-joy" for the same reason that you write "Country or Death" in Spanish at the end of every message you post... Why do you post that in Spanish when alot of people on this list don't know Spanish?? well, you asked didn't you? ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeremy axon" <jeremy@eyedmedia.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [idm] "intelligent dance music" or music for the "intelligent"?

quoted 1 line what's the point of writing "n-joy"? you're not saving any keystrokes.

> what's the point of writing "n-joy"? you're not saving any keystrokes...

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