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[idm] Re: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music

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◇ merged from 3 subjects: suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music · suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music · suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
2001-10-01 15:29Guillaume Grenier [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
├─ 2001-10-01 16:10[alland.byallo] RE: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
├─ 2001-10-01 16:10Kent williams Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
├─ 2001-10-01 16:36Christopher Sorg Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
├─ 2001-10-01 17:13EggyToast Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
└─ 2001-10-02 06:38Andrei Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
2001-10-01 17:53Aaron D Meyers Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
├─ 2001-10-01 22:12Guillaume Grenier Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
└─ 2001-10-04 08:49Colin Buttimer Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
2001-10-01 18:23Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
2001-10-02 06:27Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
2001-10-02 14:21Ian Pojman [idm] Re: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
2001-10-05 14:09Kurt Hoffman [idm] RE: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
2001-10-05 14:25Aaron D Meyers Re: [idm] RE: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
└─ 2001-10-05 15:19Kurt Hoffman Re: [idm] RE: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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2001-10-01 15:29Guillaume GrenierThe vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static harmonically, exploits
From:
Guillaume Grenier
To:
idm
Date:
Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:29:24 -0400
Subject:
[idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <B7DE0413.DDFE%gollum@videotron.ca>
The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static harmonically, exploits often a single idea for a whole track and is extremely dependent on unchanging loops. While that can sometimes give nice results, I'd be very interested in hearing suggestions of music that's exactly the opposite. I'm looking for IDM-ish (or somewhat related) music that does NOT match these criteria: music that is harmonically very rich and dynamic, that develops itself extensively, that does not revolve abusively (or even at all!) around loops. Does it exist? g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-01 16:10[alland.byallo]tortoise. Alland Byallo humbledesigndotcom -----------------------------------------------
From:
[alland.byallo]
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Guillaume Grenier , i dont mind
Date:
Mon, 1 Oct 2001 09:10:11 -0700
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RE: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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[idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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tortoise. Alland Byallo humbledesigndotcom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-01 16:10Kent williamsOn Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Guillaume Grenier wrote: > The vast majority of IDM currently released
From:
Kent williams
To:
Guillaume Grenier
Cc:
idm
Date:
Mon, 1 Oct 2001 11:10:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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[idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.1011001110657.7895B-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Guillaume Grenier wrote:
quoted 13 lines The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static> The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static > harmonically, exploits often a single idea for a whole track and is > extremely dependent on unchanging loops. While that can sometimes give nice > results, I'd be very interested in hearing suggestions of music that's > exactly the opposite. > > I'm looking for IDM-ish (or somewhat related) music that does NOT match > these criteria: music that is harmonically very rich and dynamic, that > develops itself extensively, that does not revolve abusively (or even at > all!) around loops. > > Does it exist? >
Yes...when I first got the Applesap CD (on Merck) I though it was lovely, but when I listened to it while bombing around LA in my brother's Audi, it struck me that the tracks are continuously varied, and never resolve into vamping a loop. It is a real feat, that -- each track has a really unified consistent feel, without repeating itself. Don't knock repetition though; repetition has it's own charms. But it's not so charming when a producer is just being lazy. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-01 16:36Christopher SorgI would have to add Matthew Herbert to that list, although I'm not sure I'd qualify it "ha
From:
Christopher Sorg
To:
Guillaume Grenier
Cc:
idm
Date:
Mon, 1 Oct 2001 11:36:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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[idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.21.0110011135460.4285-100000@shell-1.enteract.com>
I would have to add Matthew Herbert to that list, although I'm not sure I'd qualify it "harmonically rich", it's certainly not continuously looping.. _________________________ Christopher Sorg Multimedia Artist/Teacher http://csorg.cjb.net csorg@enteract.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-01 17:13EggyToastAt 11:29 AM 10/1/2001 -0400, you wrote: >The vast majority of IDM currently released seems
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EggyToast
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Date:
Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:13:47 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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[idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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At 11:29 AM 10/1/2001 -0400, you wrote:
quoted 12 lines The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static>The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static >harmonically, exploits often a single idea for a whole track and is >extremely dependent on unchanging loops. While that can sometimes give nice >results, I'd be very interested in hearing suggestions of music that's >exactly the opposite. > >I'm looking for IDM-ish (or somewhat related) music that does NOT match >these criteria: music that is harmonically very rich and dynamic, that >develops itself extensively, that does not revolve abusively (or even at >all!) around loops. > >Does it exist?
Yep. But most people don't really like it. Look at Autechre's "Confield" cd. I find it very rich harmonically, and extremely diverse within each song, but most people dismissed it as crap. In my opinion, IDM is starting to pick up some people from the trance camp, and the fans follow. Trance is all about loops and repeating, simple melodies. I've heard plenty of people who say "oh yeah, I really like Boards of Canada and Aphex Twin. Oh, and oakenfold!" This number has been rising recently, so we're getting some overlap. cheers, derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- fresh like pie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-02 06:38AndreiOn Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Guillaume Grenier wrote: > The vast majority of IDM currently released
From:
Andrei
To:
IDM
Date:
Tue, 2 Oct 2001 02:38:47 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
Reply to:
[idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.21.0110020207550.17795-100000@world.std.com>
On Mon, 1 Oct 2001, Guillaume Grenier wrote:
quoted 12 lines The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static> The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static > harmonically, exploits often a single idea for a whole track and is > extremely dependent on unchanging loops. While that can sometimes give nice > results, I'd be very interested in hearing suggestions of music that's > exactly the opposite. > > I'm looking for IDM-ish (or somewhat related) music that does NOT match > these criteria: music that is harmonically very rich and dynamic, that > develops itself extensively, that does not revolve abusively (or even at > all!) around loops. > > Does it exist?
I think some of these things match at least one of those criteria: One thing that I finally discovered (I know, I know, I'm a fool) and which I find very solid musically is Jega's "Spectrum". It's not anything ground breaking harmonically, but it's very rich melodically and rhythmically, there's good development in the tracks and it takes some nice unexpected turns at times. I think I even heard a modulation in one track :-). Then there are some very nice lush moments on the last 2 Mouse On Mars albums, "Niun Niggung" and "Idiology". Like someone else already pointed out there tends to be a good amount of harmonic content in Squarepusher's stuff, probably more so in his pre-Go Plastic output, and he definitely strays away from the loop approach. Other things that come to mind: post "Hangable Auto Bulb" Aphex Bisk's "Ticklish Matters" maybe Jake Mandell's "The Placekick EP" on Carpark Stuff on Carpet Bomb Telefon Tel Aviv some Atom Heart / Uwe Schmidt recent Burnt Friedman Hrvatski Phthalocyanine Leafcutter John Lexaunculpt Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-01 17:53Aaron D MeyersAlright. I like Confield a lot, but to say it is very rich "harmonically" I think is a bit
From:
Aaron D Meyers
To:
EggyToast ,
Date:
Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:53:07 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <5206a651e41b.51e41b5206a6@homemail.nyu.edu>
Alright. I like Confield a lot, but to say it is very rich "harmonically" I think is a bit misleading and I have a hunch that even on whatever level it could be considered "harmonically rich", it is not the way in which the original poster was seeking. I would personally consider it more texturally rich. The original poster (sorry I deleted the original email) was looking for something outside the loopiness of most IDM. While I agree that there is a lot of developement going on in the Confield tracks, its still very loopy (evin if the loops are kinda constantly mutating). And in terms of developing melodics (which is what I thought was what the original poster was looking for), I don't think the basslines and occasional melodies in Confield really jump too far from where they start at the beginning of most tracks. All that aside, I like Confield a lot and you should get it anyway. As for IDM sort of stuff that is melodic and dynamic and all that... nothing really jumps out at me right off. Squarepusher's Hard Normal Daddy is very musical and the songs really go places. This might not be what you are looking for but I have this Orchester 33 1/3 CD (a Christian Fennesz project) that has a lot of IDM elements fused with a whole bunch of live jazz musicians and I think there are some great songs on there. Umm... sorry.. I'm at work and I don't have my stuff in front of me so that's all I've got for now. -Aaron
quoted 6 lines Yep. But most people don't really like it. Look at Autechre's> > Yep. But most people don't really like it. Look at Autechre's > "Confield" > cd. I find it very rich harmonically, and extremely diverse > within each > song, but most people dismissed it as crap.
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2001-10-01 22:12Guillaume GrenierOn 01/10/01 13:53, Aaron D Meyers said in living color: > Alright. I like Confield a lot,
From:
Guillaume Grenier
To:
idm
Date:
Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:12:55 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <B7DE62A6.DE5C%gollum@videotron.ca>
On 01/10/01 13:53, Aaron D Meyers said in living color:
quoted 13 lines Alright. I like Confield a lot, but to say it is very> Alright. I like Confield a lot, but to say it is very > rich "harmonically" I think is a bit misleading and I have a hunch that > even on whatever level it could be considered "harmonically rich", it > is not the way in which the original poster was seeking. I would > personally consider it more texturally rich. The original poster > (sorry I deleted the original email) was looking for something outside > the loopiness of most IDM. While I agree that there is a lot of > developement going on in the Confield tracks, its still very loopy > (evin if the loops are kinda constantly mutating). And in terms of > developing melodics (which is what I thought was what the original > poster was looking for), I don't think the basslines and occasional > melodies in Confield really jump too far from where they start at the > beginning of most tracks.
Indeed, Confield does not really fit the criteria I identified in my original message.
quoted 1 line All that aside, I like Confield a lot and you should get it anyway.> All that aside, I like Confield a lot and you should get it anyway.
I like it a lot too anyway... :)
quoted 8 lines As for IDM sort of stuff that is melodic and dynamic and all that...> As for IDM sort of stuff that is melodic and dynamic and all that... > nothing really jumps out at me right off. Squarepusher's Hard Normal > Daddy is very musical and the songs really go places. This might not > be what you are looking for but I have this Orchester 33 1/3 CD (a > Christian Fennesz project) that has a lot of IDM elements fused with a > whole bunch of live jazz musicians and I think there are some great > songs on there. Umm... sorry.. I'm at work and I don't have my stuff > in front of me so that's all I've got for now.
Hard Normal Daddy would fit the bill, even though it can be a bit borderline in some cases. The Orchester 33 1/3 thing sounds interesting... I'll have to check it out. g. -- Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca in space there is no north in space there is no south in space there is no east in space there is no west --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-04 08:49Colin ButtimerAaron - would you mind telling me a bit more (like what jazzers) - this description perks
From:
Colin Buttimer
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idm list
Date:
Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:49:54 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
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Aaron - would you mind telling me a bit more (like what jazzers) - this description perks me ears up. Cheers, Colin.
quoted 12 lines From: Aaron D Meyers <adm226@nyu.edu>> From: Aaron D Meyers <adm226@nyu.edu> > Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:53:07 -0400 > To: EggyToast <youn0394@umn.edu>, idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music > > Orchester 33 1/3 CD (a > Christian Fennesz project) that has a lot of IDM elements fused with a > whole bunch of live jazz musicians and I think there are some great > songs on there. Umm... sorry.. I'm at work and I don't have my stuff > in front of me so that's all I've got for now. > > -Aaron
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2001-10-01 18:23Mediadrome@aol.comIn a message dated 10/1/01 10:09:28 AM, youn0394@umn.edu writes: << >I'm looking for IDM-i
From:
To:
,
Date:
Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:23:31 EDT
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <c8.1b6b2904.28ea0ea3@aol.com>
In a message dated 10/1/01 10:09:28 AM, youn0394@umn.edu writes: << >I'm looking for IDM-ish (or somewhat related) music that does NOT match
quoted 5 lines these criteria: music that is harmonically very rich and dynamic, that>these criteria: music that is harmonically very rich and dynamic, that >develops itself extensively, that does not revolve abusively (or even at >all!) around loops. > >Does it exist? >>
Yes, try "Techno Unit 32: misc. tracks" by Larry Kucharz. There's tonal schemes to a couple of tracks. There a polytonal track, an atonal D&B track, and one track with rapid key modulations. mediadrome --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-02 06:27sonnenblumenkern@nettaxi.comTry David Axelrod or some other artist on Mo Wax. 01.10.01 17:29:24, Guillaume Grenier <go
From:
To:
Guillaume Grenier , idm
Date:
Tue, 02 Oct 2001 08:27:58 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <200110020627.XAA13066@taxismtp2.alchemyfx.com>
Try David Axelrod or some other artist on Mo Wax. 01.10.01 17:29:24, Guillaume Grenier <gollum@videotron.ca> wrote:
quoted 27 lines The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static>The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static >harmonically, exploits often a single idea for a whole track and is >extremely dependent on unchanging loops. While that can sometimes give nice >results, I'd be very interested in hearing suggestions of music that's >exactly the opposite. > >I'm looking for IDM-ish (or somewhat related) music that does NOT match >these criteria: music that is harmonically very rich and dynamic, that >develops itself extensively, that does not revolve abusively (or even at >all!) around loops. > >Does it exist? > >g. > >-- >Guillaume Grenier - gollum@videotron.ca > >in space there is no north in space there is no south >in space there is no east in space there is no west > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2001-10-02 14:21Ian PojmanJS Bach, Mozart, Beethoven ---------------------------------------------------------------
From:
Ian Pojman
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Date:
Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:21:53 -0500
Subject:
[idm] Re: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <D37B2E8A-B740-11D5-833B-003065657B76@jmlafferty.com>
JS Bach, Mozart, Beethoven --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-05 14:09Kurt HoffmanI would say that there is little IDM that is "harmonically very rich" except, perhaps, stu
From:
Kurt Hoffman
To:
Guillaume Grenier
Cc:
idm
Date:
Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:09:12 -0400
Subject:
[idm] RE: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <p0510030db7e36335e616@[66.114.245.37]>
I would say that there is little IDM that is "harmonically very rich" except, perhaps, stuff that grabs harmonic ideas from jazz. Like Squarepusher's jazzy stuff, like "Port Rhombus". Someone already mentioned Matthew Herbert, but that indicates another area: house music that takes cues from song-like house music with jazzy chords. In any event, the 'problem' with all this stuff is that the harmonic ideas are usually not the creative part of the track (compared to, say, the sonorities or rhythms). certainly there's a middle ground. Mouse on Mars, Sack & Blumm, Bjork, Plaid --I don't know, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't loop but uses sequences of simple chords like a pop band would. I don't know what to make of the comment about Confield being harmonically rich...certainly there are shifting pile-ups of tones, but i don't get the feeling that they're creating a vertical harmonic ideas. maybe someone would like to do an analysis of one of those tracks to enlighten us all? harmonically very satisfying to me has been some of the recent Wolfgang Voight stuff, like the Alltag 1-4 ep or the Gas "Pop" lp. Really just a couple of chords with some suspensions, but he creates these nice areas of harmonic instability which resolve or don't in unpredictible ways. And, i don't know, maybe this shows how warped i am, i think the reason I really liked the Steve Bug remix of Robotman's "Hypnofreak" is that the two chord loop towards the end voices the chords in contrary motion (one also doesn't hear much cognizant 'voice leading' in idm...) anyway...it could be argued that electronica is trying to pry us away from rational experience, and the careful flow of harmonic logic that we find in harmonically developed music is too conducive to cleverness, to a lucidity that is the opposite from the hypnotized, dionysion abandon the music is trying to incite. the answer, for me, is to listen to other sorts of music. this fall i've been really getting into Stravinsky's Cantata which, as chance would have it, has a wealth of creative harmonic ideas. But no kick drum. k
quoted 14 lines The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static>The vast majority of IDM currently released seems to be very static >harmonically, exploits often a single idea for a whole track and is >extremely dependent on unchanging loops. While that can sometimes give nice >results, I'd be very interested in hearing suggestions of music that's >exactly the opposite. > >I'm looking for IDM-ish (or somewhat related) music that does NOT match >these criteria: music that is harmonically very rich and dynamic, that >develops itself extensively, that does not revolve abusively (or even at >all!) around loops. > >Does it exist? > >g.
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2001-10-05 14:25Aaron D MeyersSpeaking of classical things and harmonically rich IDM or whatever, I always thought it wo
From:
Aaron D Meyers
To:
Kurt Hoffman ,
Date:
Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:25:19 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] RE: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <87a711879c76.879c7687a711@homemail.nyu.edu>
Speaking of classical things and harmonically rich IDM or whatever, I always thought it would be cool if someone put together a compilation of IDM interpretations of some of Bartok's Mikrokosmos. To my ears, a lot of those melodies are kind of simple but with interesting rhythms and just remind me of some of the weirder melodies I've heard in IDM. They just sound so damn conducive to being electronicized. So IDM creators... go pillage the Mikrokosmos books if you need some cool melodies to build a track from. Just be sure to credit Bela Bartok and then send me your tracks! -Aaron
quoted 10 lines the answer, for me, is to listen to other sorts of music. this> the answer, for me, is to listen to other sorts of music. this > fall > i've been really getting into Stravinsky's Cantata which, as > chance > would have it, has a wealth of creative harmonic ideas. But no > kick > drum. > > k >
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2001-10-05 15:19Kurt Hoffman>Speaking of classical things and harmonically rich IDM or whatever, I >always thought it
From:
Kurt Hoffman
To:
Aaron D Meyers
Cc:
Date:
Fri, 5 Oct 2001 11:19:58 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] RE: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
Reply to:
Re: [idm] RE: Suggestions sought for harmonically rich, developed music
permalink · <p0510030eb7e37884e791@[66.114.245.37]>
quoted 2 lines Speaking of classical things and harmonically rich IDM or whatever, I>Speaking of classical things and harmonically rich IDM or whatever, I >always thought it would be cool if someone put together a compilation
of IDM interpretations of some of Bartok's Mikrokosmos. it already happened. Akira Rabelais "Eisoptrophobia" (Ritornell). actually it's a mix of Bartok easy piano pieces, some from Microcosmos, with some Satie pieces including some of the warhorses. basically, he played them on piano and then put them through the dsp wringer; they sound very weathered, as if we can barely hear music from a distant epoch. the pieces are mostly still recognizable. it's nice, though it reduces the pieces to a kind of an atmosphere where once they were succinct statements. still, it's derivative work. not that that's bad, but i'm still curious if anyone can use harmonic ideas creatively (as creatively as sonarity and rhythm get used) in contemporary electronica. that said, let's not forget all the bloated prog rock crap from the seventies that strove to make 'harmonically rich, developed music"...it makes a good case for minimalism. k --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org