IDM Mailing Archive

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Yulia Matusov wrote:

quoted 3 lines maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity...

> maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity... > where did the name Intelligent Dance Music come from? >

http://music.hyperreal.org/lists/idm/info.html Even at the beginning it was generally considered something of a misnomer. The mantra "IDM is a mailing list, not a musical style" hasn't been effective in keeping it from general usage. In fact magazines like Urb persist in using it as a pidgeonhole that seems to cover anything that isn't straight up dance floor material. Given a choice "Electronic Listening Music" or even "Experimental Electronic Music" would be more appropriate. Even "Electronica" is better, though that term seems to mean Fat Boy Slim and the Prodigy. Even weirder, "Electronica" was an Internet mailing list before it was a genre name. That list was a companion list of Analog Heaven, and has been superseded by the more appropriately named "Digital Hell." Perhaps it is just my natural monomania, but I seem to remember suggesting 'Electronica' when we were casting about for a name. As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of 'Intelligent' music, as opposed to the other sort, one should simply accept the fact that it's completely out of our hands. IDM, as a term, is here to stay. But it's just a token, a signifier. The cool thing about the music (and the occasionally cool thing about this list) is that it's all about music that actively resists silly pidgeonholing. It's just as appropriate here to discuss Bowery Electric as Francis Dhomont. Or Aphex Twin and Kid 606, or Emmanuel Gottsching and Jimi Tenor. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of 'Intelligent'

> As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of 'Intelligent' > music, as opposed to the other sort, one should simply accept the fact > that it's completely out of our hands. IDM, as a term, is here to > stay. But it's just a token, a signifier.

If only we could get it to be out-dated. Much like the term "Information Superhighway". It was *the* buzz word back in the day, but now it's laughable. Perhaps the term "IDM" could become such a relic of the past. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 6 lines If only we could get it to be out-dated. Much like

> If only we could get it to be out-dated. Much like > the term "Information > Superhighway". It was *the* buzz word back in the > day, but now it's > laughable. Perhaps the term "IDM" could become such > a relic of the past.

Yeah, like rock, classical, jazz, soul, alternative, indie, etc etc. Face it, "IDM" has culturally little in common with "info. hiway" and will not disappear. Give it up and enjoy the music. Scatter those ashes. -Adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Dance Music is the worst category they could have filed it in. I would more compare it more to an electronic symphony than to dance. As for the Intelligent part...surely there is a better, less stuck-up word for it. I too feel stupid calling it "Intelligent Dance Music". Surely if everyone on this list started calling it something different it would catch on. After all, if the artists don't want to name their category then surely the fans should be able to, and not the marketing drones. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

As if this subject hasn't been done to death before on this list... Anyways, in response to: --- Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 4 lines Dance Music is the worst category they could have

> Dance Music is the worst category they could have > filed it in. I would more > compare it more to an electronic symphony than to > dance. As for the

No no no no no. Context. Dance music goes boom boom. Some people wanted more. Hence, "intelligent" dance music. Now those people (mostly this list) have grown up and enjoy a lot of esoteric or eclectic, vaguely related stuff. That's all there is to it. "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative, simply because most of the stuff at the root of IDM is still heavily dance-related, be it hip-hop, house, garage, d'n'b, or in some people's cases, waltz. It might be a drab name for other specific subgenres of music, but I think everything that's available at this point already has quite appropriate nomenclature. Now, can we stop beating this dead, buried, exhumed, autopsied, buried again, exhumed again, cremated and sifted-through-the-ashes topic and finally scatter it to the four corners of the earth? Please? -Adam PS - and I'm sorry if I've missspellled 'exhumed' :P __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative,

> "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative, > simply because most of the stuff at the root of IDM is > still heavily dance-related, be it hip-hop, house, > garage, d'n'b, or in some people's cases, waltz.

Hmm, but it does have roots in the modern classical music too. Most notably Schoenberg's dodecaphonic stuff of the early 1900s. Er, check out this link a friend gave me a while back: http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=344742 I'm not saying this is the root, but it's certainly seems a more fitting ancestor than rave music. PS: "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative, I agree. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 3 lines Hmm, but it does have roots in the modern classical

> Hmm, but it does have roots in the modern classical > music too. Most notably > Schoenberg's dodecaphonic stuff of the early 1900s.

...

quoted 3 lines I'm not saying this is the root, but it's certainly

> I'm not saying this is the root, but it's certainly > seems a more fitting > ancestor than rave music.

I'm quite aware of the long history of experimental music in general. "IDM" however, is a term for a more specific cultural and musical genre with a more specific history and context. My understanding has come to be: while there has always been experimental music (and everything else!) all the way back into the dawn of time, everyone has to "discover" it for themselves, and "IDM" specifically came out of people (chiefly british) involved with rave and otherwise electronic dance music. They wanted "more" in the music, and began creating and seeking it out. It's the drive for more that leads people to find things that are already there, hence, discovering experimental music from the "classical" institutions, and other sources. Over time, some people might come to "IDM" through other means, i.e. classical people becoming interested in what another community is doing, and over further time they may become meshed together and the next generation will have to discover it all for themselves. But "IDM" itself came from this list and disenchanted ravers of the very early 90's. "disenchanted ravers" might be a bad term, but that's my simple understanding. Everything else influences, dance is the root. -Adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Although it may be true that IDM is probably here to stay, that doesn't mean we can't get to work coming up with sub-genres. Hell look at trance: You have NRG, Fluffy, Psy, Goa, Israeli, Prog, and many many more (I think I even heard what could be called Intelligent Video Game Trance Music this weekend :) IDM is definitely breaking off into its own little areas. You have the hip-hop side of things, the melodic mellow stuff, crunchy bits with or without melodic elements, heavy crunchy discordant melodic emotive beats etc, etc... I personally really enjoy the melodic, crunchy side of things as well as heavy discordant beats, and I tend to mostly play tracks like this when I spin. I've been wracking my brain for awhile trying to figure out a name for this possible sub genre. That way I would be able to sidestep the IDM label without actually trying to replace something that is now so firmly rooted. I still haven't come up with anything that I like a whole heck of a lot. A friend of mine came up with pleasure crunch and symphonic crunch. I kinda like those, but I am still looking... -Chris --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Chris West <cpwest@qwest.net> wrote:

quoted 10 lines I personally really enjoy the melodic, crunchy side

> I personally really enjoy the melodic, crunchy side > of things as well as > heavy discordant beats, and I tend to mostly play > tracks like this when I > spin. I've been wracking my brain for awhile trying > to figure out a name for > this possible sub genre. That way I would be able to > sidestep the IDM label > without actually trying to replace something that is > now so firmly rooted.

I like the fact that the label is more generic and vague. I like the fact that we're all open to so much, as opposed only listening to "crunchy melodic trance-hop and only in the key of A sharp". Furthermore, when I go out, I prefer to hear a mix filled with variety. I respect the ability to mix a lot of stuff together and still make it sound good, plus it keeps my attention. When it all just goes BOOM BOOM or SKITTER SKITTER my attention span drifts and why would I want to pay you to do that? That's why I really like the Record Camp folks at Level X in Brooklyn (when I get off my lazy butt and go, which hasn't been very recently unfortunately). They seem to play a nice mix of a lot of stuff, and I like it all. Don't underestimate your audience or yourself and play such a narrow style... unless, of course, I suppose, you know that's exactly what everyone wants, and you want it too... Whatever -Adam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I think it started as the name of an Aphex Twin mailing list. IMHO I think it started as a tongue in cheek response to mindless RAVE crap of the early nineties. Its a dated term like "Acid Jazz"

quoted 23 lines maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity...

>maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity... >where did the name Intelligent Dance Music come from? > >I personally wasnt even aware of the name until about 1 and 1/2 years ago, >always called it 'abstract' or 'experimental' electronica or used less >general titles... Anyway, the name kind of annoys me, its like saying "we >are intelligent and you are not," but I do reluctantly end up using it, >still though, who thought of this and can we please make up something else? >Or is it too late? Was it a marketing gimmick? > >in other questions, has anyone heard of the kind of electronic music called >'hypno'? Maybe I am just really behind the times, but today was the second >time I heard of this mysterious genre of music and was too intimidated by >the sheer confidence of the person saying it, to ask. So what better place >to do it then a 10000000000 person e-mail list? >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

Emile L'Eplattenier | p: 631-261-6030 | egl204@is9.nyu.edu | emilel@nerve.com "Style is the fringe benefit of intention."-Julian Schnabel --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I tend to think of "Intelligent Dance Music" as a term that strictly applies to the music itself and not to the people that listen to it. I mean, duh. I don't even have a college degree! So imagine a genre entirely comprised of recordings that think for themselves and illustrate their disdain for us fleshy mortals by being generally inaccessible except to a peculiar community of argumentative and opinionated people with strange beards and weird taste in cars/snack food/album covers. Artists have always talked about how the sculpture is already in the stone before they even begin chipping away, or how the painting is on the canvas before a brush has been dipped in paint- they just materialize out of the ether an image, or a sound, or a shape that was/is/and always will be there. Muses are immortal, we are not. Perhaps the mechanization of the music-making process (and the resulting higher frequency of 'happy accidents' that have always plagued people trying to be willfully creative) has finally resulted in music that more or les composes itself, with the occasional bit of guidance or intent being applied by glorified mastering engineers that we on this list label 'musicians'. I mean, who's to say what the difference is between an 808 misfiring on random fill and Taylor Deupree carefully tuning a .25 sec loop? Certainly not this jaded crowd. Ghost in the machine, man. It's like the glowing car in Repo Man. You just get in and it takes you places. So it's the music that's elitist. Don't blame yourself. You're just another victim. Don't have any idea what 'hypno' is, except to venture that it's a variation on what I just rambled on about above, possibly involving less intelligent machinery as opposed to, say, PowerBooks. Tom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 50 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Millar [mailto:tmillar@mbayweb.com] > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 11:51 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] Trivia questions > > > I tend to think of "Intelligent Dance Music" as a term that strictly > applies to the music itself and not to the people that listen to it. I > mean, duh. I don't even have a college degree! > > So imagine a genre entirely comprised of recordings that think for > themselves and illustrate their disdain for us fleshy mortals by being > generally inaccessible except to a peculiar community of argumentative > and opinionated people with strange beards and weird taste in cars/snack > food/album covers. > > Artists have always talked about how the sculpture is already in the > stone before they even begin chipping away, or how the painting is on > the canvas before a brush has been dipped in paint- they just > materialize out of the ether an image, or a sound, or a shape that > was/is/and always will be there. Muses are immortal, we are not. > > Perhaps the mechanization of the music-making process (and the resulting > higher frequency of 'happy accidents' that have always plagued people > trying to be willfully creative) has finally resulted in music that more > or les composes itself, with the occasional bit of guidance or intent > being applied by glorified mastering engineers that we on this list > label 'musicians'. > I mean, who's to say what the difference is between an 808 misfiring on > random fill and Taylor Deupree carefully tuning a .25 sec loop? > Certainly not this jaded crowd. > > Ghost in the machine, man. It's like the glowing car in Repo Man. You > just get in and it takes you places. > > So it's the music that's elitist. Don't blame yourself. You're just > another victim. > > Don't have any idea what 'hypno' is, except to venture that it's a > variation on what I just rambled on about above, possibly involving less > intelligent machinery as opposed to, say, PowerBooks. > > Tom > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Sorry about the brainless post there. I was just a little sleepy when I did that. If things were the way they should have been, the words below would have been attached to my last mail. Thomas, it sounds like you are talking about SDN or sentient dance music rather than IDM. Don't feel bad though, I also used to get the two mixed up on a regular basis. :) -c *sigh* It just isn't as funny to me now as it was last night. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Yulia Matusov wrote:

quoted 2 lines maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity...

> maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity... > where did the name Intelligent Dance Music come from?

I would think part of it was because of Warp's Artificial Intelligence compilation series, as that was the kind of music that this list was talking about, way back in 92/93 when it was started.

quoted 7 lines I personally wasnt even aware of the name until about 1 and 1/2 years

> I personally wasnt even aware of the name until about 1 and 1/2 years > ago, always called it 'abstract' or 'experimental' electronica or > used less general titles... Anyway, the name kind of annoys me, its > like saying "we are intelligent and you are not," but I do > reluctantly end up using it, still though, who thought of this and > can we please make up something else? Or is it too late? Was it a > marketing gimmick?

It's too late. The name is definitely associated with the genre (at least in the states, in the UK it's still kosher to say 'electronica' to describe non-house/trance music), and has been referenced in numerous magazines, reviews, etc. It's here to stay, for better or for worse.

quoted 5 lines in other questions, has anyone heard of the kind of electronic music

> in other questions, has anyone heard of the kind of electronic music > called 'hypno'? Maybe I am just really behind the times, but today > was the second time I heard of this mysterious genre of music and was > too intimidated by the sheer confidence of the person saying it, to > ask. So what better place to do it then a 10000000000 person e-mail list?

is this music repetitious and hypnotic? if so, this might fall under minimalism instead. The only way i can see around this is if the music is written with the intent of hypnotizing you or easing you into a trance state. -mark --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Yulia Matusov <ulia5@hotmail.com>

quoted 2 lines maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity...

> maybe everyone knows this except for me, but i am dying of curiousity... > where did the name Intelligent Dance Music come from?

Most people say it's from the 1992 (?) Warp compilation 'Artificial Intelligence'. Some people refer to it as braindance.

quoted 1 line in other questions, has anyone heard of the kind of electronic music

> in other questions, has anyone heard of the kind of electronic music

called

quoted 4 lines 'hypno'? Maybe I am just really behind the times, but today was the second

> 'hypno'? Maybe I am just really behind the times, but today was the second > time I heard of this mysterious genre of music and was too intimidated by > the sheer confidence of the person saying it, to ask. So what better place > to do it then a 10000000000 person e-mail list?

Sounds interesting. It wouldn't be a new name for psychdelic trance, would it? It sounds like something I would probably be into. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Mark <mef@ecst.csuchico.edu>

quoted 4 lines It's too late. The name is definitely associated with the genre (at

> It's too late. The name is definitely associated with the genre (at > least in the states, in the UK it's still kosher to say 'electronica' to > describe non-house/trance music), and has been referenced in numerous > magazines, reviews, etc. It's here to stay, for better or for worse.

In the states, 'electronica' seems to be a generic term for any kind of electronic music. I hate this word, it's like acoustic music is called 'acoustica' or rock is referred to as 'amplifica'. What the fuck is wrong with 'techno'? I think of autechre as techno. I will spare you the multi-paragraph rant on this obscure subject which I would like to write. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I don't much care for the name electronica when speaking of Autechre, but I'll be goddamned if I ever refer to their music as techno. I think of electronica as MoM, and plaid and mabye orb and that kind of stuff that you can dance to but has a little more art to it. I needn't tell what I think of techno as. On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Anig Browl wrote:

quoted 25 lines From: Mark <mef@ecst.csuchico.edu>

> From: Mark <mef@ecst.csuchico.edu> > > > It's too late. The name is definitely associated with the genre (at > > least in the states, in the UK it's still kosher to say 'electronica' to > > describe non-house/trance music), and has been referenced in numerous > > magazines, reviews, etc. It's here to stay, for better or for worse. > > In the states, 'electronica' seems to be a generic term for any kind of > electronic music. I hate this word, it's like acoustic music is called > 'acoustica' or rock is referred to as 'amplifica'. What the fuck is wrong > with 'techno'? I think of autechre as techno. I will spare you the > multi-paragraph rant on this obscure subject which I would like to write. > > Anig Browl > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Well, for me, electronica, is anything that is blippy bloppy in nature, as in trying to sound electronic - thus, Autechre, Aphex Twin, Mouse on Mars, Coil, Orb, Plaid, Photek, and many others, count as electonica for me...I wouldn't call them techno, as techno suggest to me a 4/4 pounding, dancelfoor beast, actually, nowadays, what I would have called techno a few years ago, I link in to tech house, or house, 'cause with the new wave of techno, which is more 2/4 orientated, over the last few years, has made it necessary to split these names again...I couldn't imagine The Advent & Autechre being mixed in to each other...also, Photek, are mostly D'n'B - but I couldn't imagine mixing Johnny L and Photek... Then again (and again), a mate of mine would call Imminent Starvation "noise", whereas I would call it rhythmical noise, mainly because I associate noise with the likes of the less aggressive japanese noise movements (not talking Aube, Massona, K2, Incapacitants, et al, which is just classic Jap Noise) and european noise projects...like Merzbow, Con-Dom, Iugula Thor, etc... Then there are the likes of the Ninja Tune and Mo Wax bands, which are mostly trip-hop, chill-out orientated...but I could go on for days... :) RoNAn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anig Browl" <anig_browl@yahoo.com> To: "IDM List" <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [idm] Trivia questions

quoted 24 lines From: Mark <mef@ecst.csuchico.edu>

> From: Mark <mef@ecst.csuchico.edu> > > > It's too late. The name is definitely associated with the genre (at > > least in the states, in the UK it's still kosher to say 'electronica' to > > describe non-house/trance music), and has been referenced in numerous > > magazines, reviews, etc. It's here to stay, for better or for worse. > > In the states, 'electronica' seems to be a generic term for any kind of > electronic music. I hate this word, it's like acoustic music is called > 'acoustica' or rock is referred to as 'amplifica'. What the fuck is wrong > with 'techno'? I think of autechre as techno. I will spare you the > multi-paragraph rant on this obscure subject which I would like to write. > > Anig Browl > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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On 26 Jun 2001, Future Relic wrote:

quoted 2 lines As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of

> > > As uncomfortable as any reasonable person is with the idea of

'Intelligent'

quoted 7 lines music, as opposed to the other sort, one should simply accept the fact

> > music, as opposed to the other sort, one should simply accept the fact > > that it's completely out of our hands. IDM, as a term, is here to > > stay. But it's just a token, a signifier. > > If only we could get it to be out-dated. Much like the term "Information > Superhighway". It was *the* buzz word back in the day, but now it's > laughable. Perhaps the term "IDM" could become such a relic of the past.

Yeah, I knew that crazy Intarweb wouldn't last! I don't see what's wrong with "idm." Everyone on this list always complains that people never dance to the music, and say "it's great to dance to!" The other everyones always say that "intelligent as a label is so snotty and pretentious," which accurately describes about 80% of the discussion and people here. Perfect! cheers, /derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- now on the interweb --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 26 Jun 2001, Future Relic wrote:

quoted 7 lines "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative,

> > > "electronic symphony" is a horrible alternative, > > simply because most of the stuff at the root of IDM is > > still heavily dance-related, be it hip-hop, house, > > garage, d'n'b, or in some people's cases, waltz. > > Hmm, but it does have roots in the modern classical music too. Most

notably

quoted 1 line Schoenberg's dodecaphonic stuff of the early 1900s. Er, check out this

> Schoenberg's dodecaphonic stuff of the early 1900s. Er, check out this

link

quoted 6 lines a friend gave me a while back:

> a friend gave me a while back: > > http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=344742 > > I'm not saying this is the root, but it's certainly seems a more fitting > ancestor than rave music.

What? Is "rave music" not good enough for you? Are you "above" hip hop? Cos, you know, the only reason autechre make music is because of their early hip-hop influence and b-boy lifestyle, Aphex Twin because he wanted to fuck around with sounds and listened to 70's folk/rock when he was young, and countless other reputable musicians who were influenced a hell of a lot more by 80's techno than by any sort of classical, modern or "old". Just because the complexity is something we see more often in older things, it doesn't mean they're at all alike. We should scuttle all you "where's idm come from, and what's it called" people off to some idm-anthropology list, where you can discuss how "idm is so advanced, it couldn't possibly have come from 'lower' forms of music." "Intelligent" sounds pretentious, yet saying 'idm' is "above" dance music isn't. nice. cheers, /derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- now on the interweb --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 19 lines What? Is "rave music" not good enough for you? Are you "above" hip hop

> > What? Is "rave music" not good enough for you? Are you "above" hip hop? > Cos, you know, the only reason autechre make music is because of their > early hip-hop influence and b-boy lifestyle, Aphex Twin because he wanted > to fuck around with sounds and listened to 70's folk/rock when he was > young, and countless other reputable musicians who were influenced a hell > of a lot more by 80's techno than by any sort of classical, modern or > "old". Just because the complexity is something we see more often in older > things, it doesn't mean they're at all alike. > > We should scuttle all you "where's idm come from, and what's it called" > people off to some idm-anthropology list, where you can discuss how "idm is > so advanced, it couldn't possibly have come from 'lower' forms of music." > > "Intelligent" sounds pretentious, yet saying 'idm' is "above" dance music > isn't. nice. > > cheers, > /derek

Okay, you busted me. I despise rave music. I've always hated it. I was into rock as a teenager, I hated it that much. It wasn't until I heard Aphex Twin at a mate's house that I started liking "electronica". I still hate repetitive Radio One music (Judge Jules, Paul Van Dyke, all that lot). I didn't realise there was a prerequisite for joining the IDM club. Anyhow, just because I don't like rave doesn't mean I feel superior to it somehow. Whatever tickles your fancy really. Lord knows I listened to some real rubbish in the eighties. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Okay, you busted me.

> Okay, you busted me.

The idm-l police strike again!

quoted 2 lines I despise rave music. I've always hated it. I was into

> I despise rave music. I've always hated it. I was into > rock as a teenager, I hated it that much.

Yeah, trance is pretty bad, when it comes down to it. You can always tell a bad genre when there's waay too much subgenrefication. That means they're struggling for a way to claim they're diverse and interesting, when it's still the same formula with some snare rushes or different keys.

quoted 4 lines It wasn't until I heard Aphex Twin

> It wasn't until I heard Aphex Twin > at a mate's house that I started liking "electronica". I still hate > repetitive Radio One music (Judge Jules, Paul Van Dyke, all that lot). I > didn't realise there was a prerequisite for joining the IDM club.

You don't have to like it. I don't. But ya gotta realize that that's where it started (although "rave" music back then was quite a bit different, granted). It's just history. It's like, it's pretty hard to have a talk about evolution if there's a bunch of creationists around. You just argue and argue, cos they don't know what's up.

quoted 2 lines Anyhow,

> Anyhow, > just because I don't like rave doesn't mean I feel superior to it

somehow.

quoted 2 lines Whatever tickles your fancy really. Lord knows I listened to some real

> Whatever tickles your fancy really. Lord knows I listened to some real > rubbish in the eighties.

Listening to rubbish at one point in your life is definitely a prerequisite to the idm club. cheers, /derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- now on the interweb --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Well I won't even touch the trance comment, but I will say that this is a bit silly:

quoted 7 lines You can always tell

>You can always tell >a bad genre when there's waay too much subgenrefication. That >means >they're struggling for a way to claim they're diverse and >interesting, when >it's still the same formula with some snare rushes or different >keys.

So basically what you are saying then is anything that hasn't been around long enough or been innovative enough to branch off into sub genres is a good music genre. And the rest of the genres are bad because the people within it are struggling to reinvent a sound or expand the genre. Or are you talking about the fans? Do they make the genre bad by coming up with terms to further classify the genres simply because those genres don't fit under the currently used labels, due to reinvention and musical expansion. Dunno, doesn't quite float in my book. -c --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I don't know, fellas, I think further meandering discussion on this could prove a lot more worthwhile than talking about cars and whether or not to smoke certain things as opposed to other things, and apple flavoring. I mean, Adam's pissed about this topic, too! Does nothing make him happy? Well, at least he participated in the smoking thing. But I'm not sure that's what we want. As an aside, I think "pleasant crunch" and "symphonic crunch" sound too much like "Captain Crunch" to me. And trance doesn't have any subgenres, those are just words to describe the people who show up to trance events and how they dress. Oops, ran out. Be back this afternoon. Tom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

To be specific, my idea of 'techno' is music that revolves around technology. So a thumping trance song that drips string pads and has a diva moaning about her new orgasm is less techno to me than something where the main sonic interest is purely electronic (and perhaps less accessible). I see the different kinds of electronic music as different sorts of techno, so I tend to think of IDM as 'intelligent techno'. I guess definitions are a really personal sort of thing. Techno for me also embodies an attitude of knowing and programming your gear to make some unique sounds. So those 'artists' who just play keyboard presets are not very techno, even if they are trying to make techno :-) This sounds ultra-trivial, but I once nearly got into a fist fight with another muso when I deferentially mentioned that I thought his new 'magic production tool' (a vitaliser or something) was not very techno because he didn't know what it was actually doing to the sound, other than improving it a bit. But all's well that ends well, it is he who provides me with my web space for mp3s :) Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Future Relic <futurerelic@hotmail.com>

quoted 1 line Dance Music is the worst category they could have filed it in.

> Dance Music is the worst category they could have filed it in.

Well, it is more serious than 'dance music' as most people conceive it, but most IDM is good to dance to. In fact, I find it just as good for this as 4 on the floor stuff. Some of my friends don't find (say) Autechre danceable, or say that if they move around to it they miss the musical subtleties. Well, they are missing out big time, because I find the unusual rhythms/textures that prevail in IDM wonderfully emotional and evocative, and derive great pleasure from moving about to them. Perhaps it's my childhood training in mime or something.

quoted 1 line too feel stupid calling it "Intelligent Dance Music".

> too feel stupid calling it "Intelligent Dance Music".

I did for a while, but now I like the term. It is certainly intelligent in that one can't accuse it of being formulaic or unchallenging. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: EggyToast <youn0394@umn.edu>

quoted 2 lines Yeah, trance is pretty bad, when it comes down to it. You can always tell

> Yeah, trance is pretty bad, when it comes down to it. You can always tell > a bad genre when there's waay too much subgenrefication.

Poppy trance certainly sucks. It's the obvious key changes and off-the-shelf percussion rhythms that irritate me, plus the fact that the commercial stuff all sounds like synth presets to me. Good trance (in my book...old goa, psytrance) developed out of indutrial and is a lot more inventive. Not for e-tards. Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: Brian M. Cass <kingmob@nmt.edu>

quoted 2 lines I don't much care for the name electronica when speaking of Autechre, but

> I don't much care for the name electronica when speaking of Autechre, but > I'll be goddamned if I ever refer to their music as techno.

Oh well, each to their own. I use IDM and intelligent techno interchangeably, you can call it..er...um...something else :-) Anig Browl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org