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RE: [idm] Panthalassa

6 messages · 5 participants · spans 3 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: panthalassa · panthalassa [+]
2001-06-22 13:21Tom Pereira [idm] Panthalassa
└─ 2001-06-22 13:42John Bush RE: [idm] Panthalassa
└─ 2001-06-22 20:58Colin Buttimer Re: [idm] Panthalassa
2001-06-23 15:33Martin Lomas Re: [idm] Panthalassa
└─ 2001-06-25 07:31Colin Buttimer Re: [idm] Panthalassa [+]
2001-06-24 03:46Digital Cutup Lounge Re: [idm] Panthalassa
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2001-06-22 13:21Tom PereiraHi, Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting jiggy with Miles Davis) any good? Cheers, Tom. __
From:
Tom Pereira
To:
Date:
Fri, 22 Jun 2001 14:21:02 +0100
Subject:
[idm] Panthalassa
permalink · <F231vrYm7Ar2pYEGWa10000ed21@hotmail.com>
Hi, Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting jiggy with Miles Davis) any good? Cheers, Tom. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-06-22 13:42John Bush> Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting > jiggy with Miles Davis) any good? Yep, and almost
From:
John Bush
To:
IDM , Tom Pereira
Date:
Fri, 22 Jun 2001 09:42:30 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] Panthalassa
Reply to:
[idm] Panthalassa
permalink · <NCBBJAFPKLAFMEAFAFOBEELEGDAA.johbus@allmusic.com>
quoted 2 lines Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting> Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting > jiggy with Miles Davis) any good?
Yep, and almost as good as the originals -- sometimes better, considering he distills all the best bits of In a Silent Way/On the Corner/Get Up with It into one disc. I'd still definitely get In a Silent Way and On the Corner, but Panthalassa is very nice too... Definitely avoid the remixes though. Here's the All Music Guide review: Is it a form of creative blasphemy to alter not only the sequence but the sound of masterworks past? In music, though, the ends quite often justify the means, and grandmaster-mixer Bill Laswell did an undeniably haunting job of reconstructing swatches of Miles Davis' amazing electric music for acid jazz-mutated ears in 1998. Of course, Laswell could claim some license to do so, for the original tracks themselves were subjected to creative editing by Teo Macero. Divided roughly into four sections, Panthalassa is a dark, continuous, hour-long, chronological tone poem of remixed electric Davis, from a 15-minute capsule of In a Silent Way through 16 minutes from the On the Corner sessions and finally nearly half an hour of selections from Get Up With It. Offered access to the original multi-track tapes, Laswell sometimes deletes the rhythm sections, brings up hidden instruments, adds Indian and electronic drones from elsewhere on the tapes, constructs moody transitions, and most tantalizingly, unearths passages from the sessions that were being released for the first time. Indeed, the On the Corner section yields two new titles to the Davis discography, the highly colored rock/funk "What If" and a sinister march-like "Agharta Prelude Dub." In the end, despite the altered sonic landscape, Laswell accurately evokes in turns the lonely, exquisitely gleaming, nightmarish, despairing moods that Davis was exploring prior to his 1975 retirement, a still much-misunderstood period whose music is far too disturbing and probing to deserve the sellout label. — Richard S. Ginell And the remixes: Panthalassa: The Remixes is the logical extension of the previous year's Panthalassa project, in which long-time aficionado Bill Laswell restructured several Miles Davis recordings in similar fashion to the original production techniques pioneered by Teo Macero on Miles albums In a Silent Way, On the Corner and Get Up with It. Here, several dance producers are brought into the fold, not just to rearrange the material but remix it as well. The versions that work the best are done by producers unafraid to tamper with the tapes: hence, two separate reworkings of "Rated X" (from Get Up with It) result in darkside drum'n'bass burners by Doc Scott and Jamie Myerson that find the hyperkinetic energy in the original. The highlight of the entire project is an inexplicably vinyl-only bonus track by DJ Krush, who turns "Black Satin/On the Corner" into a minimalist beat odyssey with several different passages and effective scratching in all the right places. The only real disappointment on Panthalassa: The Remixes finds trip-hop deconstructionist DJ Cam creating an uneasy alliance by crudely inserting a loping breakbeat onto Miles' winsome solo from "In a Silent Way." Remix albums are often a mistake for both parties involved, but this one does work on several levels. — John Bush --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-06-22 20:58Colin Buttimer>> Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting >> jiggy with Miles Davis) any good? Errrrrr I pos
From:
Colin Buttimer
To:
Date:
Fri, 22 Jun 2001 21:58:45 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Panthalassa
Reply to:
RE: [idm] Panthalassa
permalink · <B7596D66.F26A%c.buttimer@mdx.ac.uk>
quoted 2 lines Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting>> Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting >> jiggy with Miles Davis) any good?
Errrrrr I possess something like 70 cds and cdr bootlegs of Miles' electric bands between '69 and '75, one of my two year old son's middle names is Miles, and I'm just reading 'Miles Beyond' a new book which for the first time addresses this music properly and its author thinks Panthalassa is on the whole a good thing. Me, I borrowed it from the local library, gave it a couple of listens and couldn't stand it - felt all the spontaneity and rawness had been drained from Miles' music. You might love it though - if you're not acquainted with this music it might be a decent starting point though I'd probably recommend you pick up the remastered Bitches Brew instead - if you're coming from IDM I'd recommend purchasing Herbie Mwandishi Hancock's 'Sextant' [1973] for a yet to be addressed/surpassed combination of electronics and live improvised playing... to learn more go to: http://www.magma.ca/~dwatson/Kozmigroov2.html I copied the intro page at the bottom of this email. if you already know this stuff - my apologies. BTW I do like early Laswell (Material, Last Exit, etc) - so I named my first cat after him - weirdly enough Laswell, as he's grown older, has more and more got Bill Laswell's facial expression (the one he always wears in photographs) - sorta moody, sullen, overly serious... All the best, Colin. _____________________________ "... and life is a song sung low and cool to rouse the gentle spirit." (Jeff Noon) Kozmigroov* is a transgressive improvisational music which combines elements of psychedelia, spirituality, rock, soul, funk, and African, Latin, Brazillian, Indian and Asian influences. At its most accomplished, Kozmigroov is both expansive and highly rhythmic, and simultaneously finds connections with the mind, soul and body. Indicators span * from the intergalactic electronic offerings of Sun Ra (arguably, the Godfather of Kozmigroov) * to the spacejazz of Miles Davis' Bitches Brew and Herbie Hancock's Mwandishi Sextet * to the transcendental jazz of Alice Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders * to the spiritual Afro-centric soul declarations found on the Impulse!, Strata East, BlackJazz and Tribe labels * to the dense apocalyptic jazz-rock of the Tony Williams Lifetime, Miles' Dark Magus/Agharta/Pangaea axis, and the Last Exit quartet * to the cosmic funk of Herbie Hancock, The Headhunters, Lonnie Liston Smith, and Charles Earland * to the European progressive refractions captured on the MPS and ECM imprints * to the Asian amalgams of Terumasa Hino, Masabumi Kikuchi and Shunzo Ohno * to the pan-global fusions explored by Don Cherry, Jon Hassell and Charlie Mariano * to the jagged free funk of Ornette Coleman's original Prime Time and its harmolodic alumni (Ronald Shannon Jackson, James Blood Ulmer) * to a host of recent Nu-Jazz revisionary sides from Erik Truffaz Quartet, Kirk DeGiorgio's As One and Off-World Ensemble projects, The Cinematic Orchestra, and Frederic Galliano's Electronic Sextet This site is dedicated to all of the above, in addition to the seemingly endless list of other musicians whose music resides either within or across these nominal categories. Regardless of whether it's realistic to circumscribe such diverse elements, there remains a common aesthetic at work here. Kozmigroov can be said to represent a crossbreed which arises through the breakdown of artistic boundaries and biases, a hybrid which embraces other influences and new technologies, all the while maintaining a sense of connection to the original spirit of the music. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-06-23 15:33Martin LomasOriginal Q: "Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting jiggy with Miles Davis) any good?" Colin
From:
Martin Lomas
To:
Hypereal IDM
Date:
Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:33:53 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Panthalassa
permalink · <p05100304b75a64bf84a3@[24.114.26.98]>
Original Q: "Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting jiggy with Miles Davis) any good?" Colin: "Me, I borrowed it from the local library, gave it a couple of listens and couldn't stand it - felt all the spontaneity and rawness had been drained from Miles' music." Me: I have to side with Colin. If you never knew Miles Davis, you might accept the disc as a mediocre slab of remixed-sounding prog-jazz. But as a tribute to Miles, it's absolutely sacrilegious. Pitiful. Davis knew all about the sounds he wanted, and about gathering uniquely talented musicians to that end. And now a beef about Mr. Laswell. I enjoy intelligent music of all kinds. And I'm aware of the good reputation and incredible proliferation of Bill Laswell. But I can't stand anything I've ever heard with him involved. Most of it just sounds like murky sludge to me. I understand the principles of dub, and have a small collection of originals (King Tubby etc.). But I just don't get his sound. Perhaps someone can recommend works of his that would correct my bad impression? Cheers, Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-06-25 07:31Colin ButtimerHello Martin, Well as I said, I have time for earlier Laswell so I'd recommend the first f
From:
Colin Buttimer
To:
Date:
Mon, 25 Jun 2001 08:31:05 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Panthalassa [+]
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Panthalassa
permalink · <B75C12E4.F439%c.buttimer@mdx.ac.uk>
Hello Martin, Well as I said, I have time for earlier Laswell so I'd recommend the first few Material albums: * Temporary Music (compilation) * Memory Serves (has people like Fred Frith, Billy Bang, Henry Threadgill, Sonny Sharrock playing - need I say more?) * Western Lands (is that the title? with William Burroughs, Rammelzee, L Shankar - again, any project with these people (particularly Mr Lee himself) can't be bad) * the soul album featuring a track with Whitney Houston on vocals doesn't float my boat particularly, nor any later ones Laswell's first solo album is very, very fine - Baselines, as is his duet album with Peter Brotzman - Low Life. I'd also recommend any of the Last Exit albums with the exception of their only studio recording, Iron Path. I've got various other things, but they don't particularly grab me - it's the same with the Panthalassa project/s - John von Seggern likes it and it's my taste that I don't - but I'm glad to hear of another fan! If you haven't read the Paul Tingen book, you might want to take a look. One point of annoyance - Laswell's starting using Nils Petter Molvaer to imitate Jon Hassell on a number of projects (the latter is a god, the former an uninspired copyist. just my humble opinion) All the best, Colin. _____________________________ "... and life is a song sung low and cool to rouse the gentle spirit." (Jeff Noon) np: Burnt Friedman Plays Love Songs (are there any Burnt fans on this list? I don't think I've seen him mentioned since I subscribed two or three months ago) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-06-24 03:46Digital Cutup LoungeMartin Lomas wrote: > Original Q: "Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting jiggy with Miles >
From:
Digital Cutup Lounge
To:
Martin Lomas
Cc:
Hypereal IDM
Date:
Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:46:00 +0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] Panthalassa
permalink · <3B356272.A69AAE7B@digitalcutuplounge.com>
Martin Lomas wrote:
quoted 13 lines Original Q: "Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting jiggy with Miles> Original Q: "Is Panthalassa (Bill Laswell getting jiggy with Miles > Davis) any good?" > > Colin: "Me, I borrowed it from the local library, gave it a couple of > listens and > couldn't stand it - felt all the spontaneity and rawness had been drained > from Miles' music." > > Me: I have to side with Colin. If you never knew Miles Davis, you > might accept the disc as a mediocre slab of remixed-sounding > prog-jazz. But as a tribute to Miles, it's absolutely sacrilegious. > Pitiful. Davis knew all about the sounds he wanted, and about > gathering uniquely talented musicians to that end.
My 2 cents -- I've always thought 70s electric Miles is some of the greatest music of the 20th century and this music continues to be my greatest inspiration now. That said, I think Laswell's versions on Panthalassa are really good work. I only wished that Laswell's remixes had been more radical, there are so many interesting things he could have done with that source material but instead he chose to be relatively faithful to the originals. One of the best things about Panthalassa is the version of Rated X, for example -- one of Miles' most difficult pieces. Rated X has many layers of polyrhythmic complexity which were somewhat obscured on the original version, but Laswell has used modern studio technology to clarify the mix and let us hear more clearly what Miles was trying to do.
quoted 8 lines And now a beef about Mr. Laswell. I enjoy intelligent music of all> And now a beef about Mr. Laswell. I enjoy intelligent music of all > kinds. And I'm aware of the good reputation and incredible > proliferation of Bill Laswell. But I can't stand anything I've ever > heard with him involved. Most of it just sounds like murky sludge to > me. I understand the principles of dub, and have a small collection > of originals (King Tubby etc.). But I just don't get his sound. > Perhaps someone can recommend works of his that would correct my bad > impression?
I would agree that Laswell's output is a mixed bag...but part of it stems from his approach of doing as many projects as he can as fast as possible and letting his listeners sort them out. He seems like he's always looking ahead to the next project... John -- John von Seggern DJ/producer Digital Cutup Lounge Hong Kong http://www.digitalcutuplounge.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org