179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

Re: [idm] lots of complicated words

7 messages · 7 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: hip hop · lots of complicated words
2001-02-23 10:17Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
└─ 2001-02-24 02:33Brian MacDonald [idm] Hip hop
2001-02-24 01:50Kevin Ryan @ [idm] Hip Hop
└─ 2001-02-24 02:14Chris Frey Re: [idm] Hip Hop
2001-02-24 21:14Philip Sherburne Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
2001-02-25 00:08Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
└─ 2001-02-25 00:10zimbo Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
2001-02-23 10:17"\"Don't mourn, organize!\"" <deltakid@ucla.edu>hey you bullshitter! no one gives a shit about your foucaultian hip hop research paper, go
From:
To:
Date:
Fri, 23 Feb 2001 02:17:13 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
permalink · <004501c09d81$ca955460$87be1818@we.mediaone.net>
hey you bullshitter! no one gives a shit about your foucaultian hip hop research paper, go bite off and join a b-boy circle! fuck academic subculture analysis, learn to dance you tie-wearing ass-kisser! -sko ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Ryan @" <i__oo__@hotmail.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 5:50 PM Subject: [idm] Hip Hop
quoted 4 lines The genre of hip hop qua cultural locus manifested (and, if I may,> The genre of hip hop qua cultural locus manifested (and, if I may, > legitimated) the inertia of the Postmodern ethos of mediumistic > deconstruction in the 1970s, which in itself was in many respects a > culmination of the 1960s hermeneutic of the post-dada studio production
and
quoted 1 line re/de-simulation foci of the rising production mnemonic in live music.> re/de-simulation foci of the rising production mnemonic in live music.
Seen
quoted 3 lines from this perspective, can hip hop be "live"? First, one must recall that> from this perspective, can hip hop be "live"? First, one must recall that > hip hop, vernacular usage aside, was originally delineated in its cultural > dimension. The term was allegedly codified, if not fabricated, or at
least
quoted 6 lines lexicalized, by Afrika Bambaataa, who in the mid-1970s identified not four> lexicalized, by Afrika Bambaataa, who in the mid-1970s identified not four > but five "pillars" of the nascent designation: MCing, DJing, breaking, > graffiti, and Zulu nation, the last of which being a pan-Africanist > association of black skinned persons in urban centres, particularly the > Bronx. It may be useful at this point to note that Bambaataa's namesake > itself is most likely a tipping of the hat to the Bambata insurgence in
1906
quoted 6 lines against the British colonial rule of South Africa, easily attributed, by a> against the British colonial rule of South Africa, easily attributed, by a > gloss, to the society, albeit segmented political system, of the extant > Zulu. The internal structure of Bambaataa's reinscription of nomenclature > thus highlights a fiction of agency that parallels the appropriation of > factual knowledge, an unconscious, or at best quasi-conscious, > de-semanticization of Afrocentric loan terms aimed at fostering a
discourse
quoted 8 lines of racial empowerment and a subsequent deconstruction or reformulation of> of racial empowerment and a subsequent deconstruction or reformulation of > the Eurocentric grammar. > > In perhaps simpler terms, the experience of hip hop (re)embodies the very > semantic drift that is tellingly symptomatic of syntactical uncertainty > grafted on to the language of popular culture (seen from the post-Hegelian > viewpoint, at least). While the tacit epistemological justification of > early hip hop remains a rich source of analysis, let us turn to, first,
the
quoted 2 lines reduction-or progression, if you prefer-of hip hop from a socio-cultural> reduction-or progression, if you prefer-of hip hop from a socio-cultural > locus to a genre of art, and, second, to its co-optation and
re-codification
quoted 5 lines in contemporary circles of electronic music production. The conceptual> in contemporary circles of electronic music production. The conceptual > re-casting thematized by hip hop over the last three decades parallels the > renunciation of praxis in other musical cultures, such as rock, blues, and > funk. Here it is useful to invoke DeMan's aesthetic ideology, which is > closely allied to the politics of the Other. Hip hop's heyday in the
1970s
quoted 4 lines was largely an underground sociocentric endeavor, unconcerned with the> was largely an underground sociocentric endeavor, unconcerned with the > transformation on to physical medium (cf., DeMan's coverage of cultural > aesthetics in a non-art setting) outside of a smattering of cassette > bootlegging. While the Sugarhill Gang were not the very first to codify
rap
quoted 2 lines on the vinyl medium (they were narrowly beat to the punch by a Fatback> on the vinyl medium (they were narrowly beat to the punch by a Fatback > b-side and one other obscure recording by an outside impresario, both in
the
quoted 4 lines summer of 1979), in September 1979 their enormously popular 12" "Rapper's> summer of 1979), in September 1979 their enormously popular 12" "Rapper's > Delight" heralded a new ideological era of hip hop which eventually > marginalized the wholistic culture of hip hop promulgated by its founders. > The (re)formation of history as such is comparable with the
delegitimization
quoted 6 lines of the enigmatic, the very raison-d'etre of the underground, as the> of the enigmatic, the very raison-d'etre of the underground, as the > subculture's zeitgeist demonstrated its susceptibility to capitalistic > king-of-the-hillisms with a facility emblematic of the Heraclitean flux of > market forces. > > Here we see that hip hop is not so much a genre in the traditional
Platonic
quoted 1 line essentialistic sense, but rather a Wittgensteinian "family of> essentialistic sense, but rather a Wittgensteinian "family of
resemblences"
quoted 2 lines amenable to co-optation by new progressivistic artists utilizing physical> amenable to co-optation by new progressivistic artists utilizing physical > media. Although hip hop's chief organizers of the 1970s, such as Kool
Herc
quoted 1 line (perhaps the original founder of the culture but by no stretch a> (perhaps the original founder of the culture but by no stretch a
theorist),
quoted 5 lines Grandmaster Flash ("the scientist of the mix," the forebear of hip hop's> Grandmaster Flash ("the scientist of the mix," the forebear of hip hop's > modern penchant for instrumentals and turntablistic noodling), and their > confrere Bambaataa himself, originally denounced the vinylization of the > genre, all but Herc had jumped on the commercialistic bandwagon within the > first couple years of 1980s. The rhetoric of radical alterity, it
followed,
quoted 5 lines submitted to an almost protean adaptation to the ephemeral marketplace> submitted to an almost protean adaptation to the ephemeral marketplace > panopticism. The growing acculturation of white-skinned persons and > electronic producers working within the so-called "IDM" rubric represents > yet another fundamental rehashing of the conceptual nuclei of hip hop (in > the family-resemblance schema), refuting its Platonic essence in favor of
a
quoted 2 lines more accomodationist schematization, reminiscent of the shift from> more accomodationist schematization, reminiscent of the shift from > discophilia to discophobia among recorded rappers in the early 1980s, or
of
quoted 3 lines the violent turnover from an underground orientation to a highly vocal> the violent turnover from an underground orientation to a highly vocal > "moneymaking" esprit (although boast rap, often seen as a concomitant to > moneymaking, was elemental in the formative 1970s sphere). The viability
of
quoted 1 line such a transfer is predicated upon the notion of a shifting> such a transfer is predicated upon the notion of a shifting
epistemological
quoted 1 line bearing within a closed (albeit nebulous) genre delimitation. What's> bearing within a closed (albeit nebulous) genre delimitation. What's
more,
quoted 7 lines the divisibility of exoticism opens a space for the invention of the> the divisibility of exoticism opens a space for the invention of the > unspoken. The inception of narrative qua rap (that is, the culturally > motivated anecdotal utterances and illicit aphorizing of MCs) invested > itself in the representational validity of the marginal, but now accepted, > transmutability to the disc medium. The speaking of this societal image, > finally, instantiates the historicization of the autonomous selfhood of > cultural organization congruent with the incipient textuality of the
musical
quoted 10 lines lyric.> lyric. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-24 02:33Brian MacDonaldKick the URL for that generator my way, holmes. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ke
From:
Brian MacDonald
To:
Date:
Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:33:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
[idm] Hip hop
Reply to:
Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010223183202.20896A-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
Kick the URL for that generator my way, holmes.
quoted 5 lines ----- Original Message -----> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Ryan @" <i__oo__@hotmail.com> > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 5:50 PM > Subject: [idm] Hip Hop
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-24 01:50Kevin Ryan @The genre of hip hop qua cultural locus manifested (and, if I may, legitimated) the inerti
From:
Kevin Ryan @
To:
Date:
Sat, 24 Feb 2001 01:50:42 -0000
Subject:
[idm] Hip Hop
permalink · <F98XGA7zyWR4Atg2c7q0001d7b1@hotmail.com>
The genre of hip hop qua cultural locus manifested (and, if I may, legitimated) the inertia of the Postmodern ethos of mediumistic deconstruction in the 1970s, which in itself was in many respects a culmination of the 1960s hermeneutic of the post-dada studio production and re/de-simulation foci of the rising production mnemonic in live music. Seen from this perspective, can hip hop be "live"? First, one must recall that hip hop, vernacular usage aside, was originally delineated in its cultural dimension. The term was allegedly codified, if not fabricated, or at least lexicalized, by Afrika Bambaataa, who in the mid-1970s identified not four but five "pillars" of the nascent designation: MCing, DJing, breaking, graffiti, and Zulu nation, the last of which being a pan-Africanist association of black skinned persons in urban centres, particularly the Bronx. It may be useful at this point to note that Bambaataa's namesake itself is most likely a tipping of the hat to the Bambata insurgence in 1906 against the British colonial rule of South Africa, easily attributed, by a gloss, to the society, albeit segmented political system, of the extant Zulu. The internal structure of Bambaataa's reinscription of nomenclature thus highlights a fiction of agency that parallels the appropriation of factual knowledge, an unconscious, or at best quasi-conscious, de-semanticization of Afrocentric loan terms aimed at fostering a discourse of racial empowerment and a subsequent deconstruction or reformulation of the Eurocentric grammar. In perhaps simpler terms, the experience of hip hop (re)embodies the very semantic drift that is tellingly symptomatic of syntactical uncertainty grafted on to the language of popular culture (seen from the post-Hegelian viewpoint, at least). While the tacit epistemological justification of early hip hop remains a rich source of analysis, let us turn to, first, the reduction-or progression, if you prefer-of hip hop from a socio-cultural locus to a genre of art, and, second, to its co-optation and re-codification in contemporary circles of electronic music production. The conceptual re-casting thematized by hip hop over the last three decades parallels the renunciation of praxis in other musical cultures, such as rock, blues, and funk. Here it is useful to invoke DeMan's aesthetic ideology, which is closely allied to the politics of the Other. Hip hop's heyday in the 1970s was largely an underground sociocentric endeavor, unconcerned with the transformation on to physical medium (cf., DeMan's coverage of cultural aesthetics in a non-art setting) outside of a smattering of cassette bootlegging. While the Sugarhill Gang were not the very first to codify rap on the vinyl medium (they were narrowly beat to the punch by a Fatback b-side and one other obscure recording by an outside impresario, both in the summer of 1979), in September 1979 their enormously popular 12" "Rapper's Delight" heralded a new ideological era of hip hop which eventually marginalized the wholistic culture of hip hop promulgated by its founders. The (re)formation of history as such is comparable with the delegitimization of the enigmatic, the very raison-d'etre of the underground, as the subculture's zeitgeist demonstrated its susceptibility to capitalistic king-of-the-hillisms with a facility emblematic of the Heraclitean flux of market forces. Here we see that hip hop is not so much a genre in the traditional Platonic essentialistic sense, but rather a Wittgensteinian "family of resemblences" amenable to co-optation by new progressivistic artists utilizing physical media. Although hip hop's chief organizers of the 1970s, such as Kool Herc (perhaps the original founder of the culture but by no stretch a theorist), Grandmaster Flash ("the scientist of the mix," the forebear of hip hop's modern penchant for instrumentals and turntablistic noodling), and their confrere Bambaataa himself, originally denounced the vinylization of the genre, all but Herc had jumped on the commercialistic bandwagon within the first couple years of 1980s. The rhetoric of radical alterity, it followed, submitted to an almost protean adaptation to the ephemeral marketplace panopticism. The growing acculturation of white-skinned persons and electronic producers working within the so-called "IDM" rubric represents yet another fundamental rehashing of the conceptual nuclei of hip hop (in the family-resemblance schema), refuting its Platonic essence in favor of a more accomodationist schematization, reminiscent of the shift from discophilia to discophobia among recorded rappers in the early 1980s, or of the violent turnover from an underground orientation to a highly vocal "moneymaking" esprit (although boast rap, often seen as a concomitant to moneymaking, was elemental in the formative 1970s sphere). The viability of such a transfer is predicated upon the notion of a shifting epistemological bearing within a closed (albeit nebulous) genre delimitation. What's more, the divisibility of exoticism opens a space for the invention of the unspoken. The inception of narrative qua rap (that is, the culturally motivated anecdotal utterances and illicit aphorizing of MCs) invested itself in the representational validity of the marginal, but now accepted, transmutability to the disc medium. The speaking of this societal image, finally, instantiates the historicization of the autonomous selfhood of cultural organization congruent with the incipient textuality of the musical lyric. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-24 02:14Chris FreyThis was good for a laugh. Pseudo-intellectualism at its finest. the inertia of the Postmo
From:
Chris Frey
To:
Date:
Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:14:09 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] Hip Hop
Reply to:
[idm] Hip Hop
permalink · <3.0.1.32.20010223181409.008f3c90@pop.bol.ucla.edu>
This was good for a laugh. Pseudo-intellectualism at its finest. the inertia of the Postmodern ethos of mediumistic
quoted 1 line deconstruction>deconstruction
the 1960s hermeneutic of the post-dada studio production and
quoted 1 line re/de-simulation foci of the rising production mnemonic in live music.>re/de-simulation foci of the rising production mnemonic in live music.
The term was allegedly codified, if not fabricated, or at least
quoted 1 line lexicalized,>lexicalized,
quasi-conscious,
quoted 3 lines de-semanticization of Afrocentric loan terms aimed at fostering a discourse>de-semanticization of Afrocentric loan terms aimed at fostering a discourse >of racial empowerment and a subsequent deconstruction or reformulation of >the Eurocentric grammar.
quoted 3 lines semantic drift that is tellingly symptomatic of syntactical uncertainty>semantic drift that is tellingly symptomatic of syntactical uncertainty >grafted on to the language of popular culture (seen from the post-Hegelian >viewpoint, at least).
the tacit epistemological justification of early hip hop
quoted 3 lines the subculture's zeitgeist demonstrated its susceptibility to capitalistic>the subculture's zeitgeist demonstrated its susceptibility to capitalistic >king-of-the-hillisms with a facility emblematic of the Heraclitean flux of >market forces.
hip hop is not so much a genre in the traditional Platonic
quoted 1 line essentialistic sense, but rather a Wittgensteinian "family of resemblences".>essentialistic sense, but rather a Wittgensteinian "family of resemblences".
instantiates the historicization of the autonomous selfhood of
quoted 2 lines cultural organization congruent with the incipient textuality of the musical>cultural organization congruent with the incipient textuality of the musical >lyric.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-24 21:14Philip Sherburne>hey you bullshitter! no one gives a shit about your foucaultian hip hop >research paper,
From:
Philip Sherburne
To:
,
Date:
Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:14:21 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
permalink · <000c01c09ea6$c39426c0$b90356d1@oemcomputer>
quoted 2 lines hey you bullshitter! no one gives a shit about your foucaultian hip hop>hey you bullshitter! no one gives a shit about your foucaultian hip hop >research paper, go bite off and join a b-boy circle!
quoted 2 lines fuck academic subculture analysis, learn to dance you tie-wearing>fuck academic subculture analysis, learn to dance you tie-wearing >ass-kisser!
you *did* get that this was a joke, right? you'd think that people who listened to hip hop would have more of a sense of humor... *shrug*
2001-02-25 00:08AeOtaku@aol.comWhere are the complicated words? Matt
From:
To:
Date:
Sat, 24 Feb 2001 19:08:09 EST
Subject:
Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
permalink · <24.119839d0.27c9a6e9@aol.com>
Where are the complicated words? Matt
2001-02-25 00:10zimboOn Sat, 24 Feb 2001 AeOtaku@aol.com wrote: > Where are the complicated words? > > Matt oh,
From:
zimbo
To:
Cc:
Date:
Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:10:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
Reply to:
Re: [idm] lots of complicated words
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.1010224160943.8584A-100000@falco.kuci.uci.edu>
On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 AeOtaku@aol.com wrote:
quoted 3 lines Where are the complicated words?> Where are the complicated words? > > Matt
oh, we ate all those. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org