179,854Messages
9,130Senders
30Years
342mboxes

← archive index

Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ

9 messages · 8 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
2000-12-10 07:13nuf si [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
└─ 2000-12-10 14:51Medium Graham RE: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
2000-12-10 18:31William VanLoo Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
└─ 2000-12-10 18:14Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
2000-12-10 19:49Jon Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
2000-12-10 21:00Kevin Ryan @ Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
2000-12-10 21:39William VanLoo Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
└─ 2000-12-10 20:54Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
2000-12-11 04:05Kevin Murphy Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
expand allcollapse allclick any summary to toggle that message
2000-12-10 07:13nuf siLook what some hip geek at Hewlett-Packard's Bristol Labs is up to: http://www.hpl.hp.com/
From:
nuf si
To:
Date:
Sat, 9 Dec 2000 23:13:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
[idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <20001210071304.25338.qmail@web1903.mail.yahoo.com>
Look what some hip geek at Hewlett-Packard's Bristol Labs is up to: http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2000/HPL-2000-104.html http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2000/HPL-2000-104.pdf Hang the DJ: Automatic Sequencing and Seamless Mixing of Dance-music Tracks Cliff, Dave HPL-2000-104 20000809 External Keyword(s): user interfaces; music information retrieval; music sequencing; mixing; Disk-Jockey; automation; dance music; compilation Abstract: [...] This paper describes an automatic method by which compilations of dance-music can be sequenced and seamlessly mixed by computer, with minimal user involvement. The user may specify a selection of tracks, and may give a qualitative indication of the type of mix required. The resultant mix can be presented as a continuous single digital audio file, whether for burning to CD or for play-out from a virtual jukebox or personalized virtual radio station. 10 Pages Choice quote: "[...] the method described here operates on ``dance'' styles of music, where the rhythmic element of the music is regular and pronounced. In the sublime poetry of English Law, these styles are defined in Clause 58 (1) (b) of the 1994 Criminal Justice Act as ``...sounds wholly or predominantly characterized by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats.'' Such music styles include those popularly known as ``disco'', ``electronica'', ``house'', ``garage'', ``techno'', ``hip-hop'', ``drum n bass'', and ``trance''." hmm...he doesn't mention IDM :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-10 14:51Medium GrahamOkay, but that would only work properly with 4-on-the-floor music like - as they said - ho
From:
Medium Graham
To:
Independent Dub Monsters
Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 2000 14:51:54 -0000
Subject:
RE: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
Reply to:
[idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <BNEKIDAPNHONECMHGKKGAEGNCMAA.medium_graham@yahoo.co.uk>
Okay, but that would only work properly with 4-on-the-floor music like - as they said - house, techno, maybe even certain dub/reggae tracks. I've yet to see beat-matching software/hardware that will successfully pick up the tempo of a drum'n'bass or a uk garage track. It's easy for a human to do since telling the tempo of music is qualitative, but it's very very hard to do it using just numbers in some hardware. Good luck to them, though... G-love. http://www.gram.org.uk
quoted 38 lines Look what some hip geek at Hewlett-Packard's Bristol Labs is up to:> Look what some hip geek at Hewlett-Packard's Bristol Labs is up to: > > http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2000/HPL-2000-104.html > http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2000/HPL-2000-104.pdf > > Hang the DJ: Automatic Sequencing and Seamless Mixing of > Dance-music Tracks > Cliff, Dave > > HPL-2000-104 > 20000809 > External > > Keyword(s): user interfaces; music information retrieval; music > sequencing; mixing; Disk-Jockey; automation; dance music; compilation > > Abstract: [...] This paper describes an automatic method by which > compilations of dance-music can be sequenced and seamlessly mixed by > computer, with minimal user involvement. The user may specify a > selection of tracks, and may give a qualitative indication of the type > of mix required. The resultant mix can be presented as a continuous > single digital audio file, whether for burning to CD or for play-out > from a virtual jukebox or personalized virtual radio station. > > 10 Pages > > Choice quote: > > "[...] the method described here operates on ``dance'' styles of music, > where the rhythmic element of the music is regular and pronounced. In > the sublime poetry of English Law, these styles are defined in Clause > 58 (1) (b) of the 1994 Criminal Justice Act as ``...sounds wholly or > predominantly characterized by the emission of a succession of > repetitive beats.'' Such music styles include those popularly known as > ``disco'', ``electronica'', ``house'', ``garage'', ``techno'', > ``hip-hop'', ``drum n bass'', and ``trance''." > > hmm...he doesn't mention IDM :)
_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-10 18:31William VanLoo> Okay, but that would only work properly with 4-on-the-floor music like - as > they said
From:
William VanLoo
To:
Medium Graham
Cc:
Independent Dub Monsters
Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:31:53 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <3A33CC18.1C15D73A@mediaone.net>
quoted 6 lines Okay, but that would only work properly with 4-on-the-floor music like - as> Okay, but that would only work properly with 4-on-the-floor music like - as > they said - house, techno, maybe even certain dub/reggae tracks. I've yet to > see beat-matching software/hardware that will successfully pick up the tempo > of a drum'n'bass or a uk garage track. It's easy for a human to do since > telling the tempo of music is qualitative, but it's very very hard to do it > using just numbers in some hardware. Good luck to them, though...
OK, I just thought of something. What if producers started encoding the digital forms of their tracks (that is, CD or MP3) with tempo information similar to the way video has timecode? That way, an automated system like the above wouldn't have to guess. The real benefit, of course, would be for CD mixers. It has the potential to take some of the drudgery out of mixing and instead give the DJ more time to do more interesting things. Of course, it also has the potential to make DJ's sets *way* more boring. Err, how'd we veer back onto this "digital mixing" thread? Bill -- http://www.chromedecay.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-10 18:14sprek@soundmangle.comum, spin vinyl. What is it with people and cd's? and now yer trying to take all of the tal
From:
To:
William VanLoo , Medium Graham
Cc:
Independent Dub Monsters
Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 2000 10:14:50 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
Reply to:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <4.3.2.7.0.20001210101320.00adb710@mail.audibleoddities.com>
um, spin vinyl. What is it with people and cd's? and now yer trying to take all of the talent out of matching beats(if any)? um....spin vinyl. At 10:31 AM 12/10/00 -0800, William VanLoo wrote:
quoted 29 lines Okay, but that would only work properly with 4-on-the-floor music like - as> > Okay, but that would only work properly with 4-on-the-floor music like - as > > they said - house, techno, maybe even certain dub/reggae tracks. I've > yet to > > see beat-matching software/hardware that will successfully pick up the > tempo > > of a drum'n'bass or a uk garage track. It's easy for a human to do since > > telling the tempo of music is qualitative, but it's very very hard to do it > > using just numbers in some hardware. Good luck to them, though... > >OK, I just thought of something. > >What if producers started encoding the digital forms of their tracks >(that is, CD or MP3) with tempo information similar to the way video has >timecode? That way, an automated system like the above wouldn't have to guess. > >The real benefit, of course, would be for CD mixers. It has the >potential to take some of the drudgery out of mixing and instead give >the DJ more time to do more interesting things. Of course, it also has >the potential to make DJ's sets *way* more boring. > >Err, how'd we veer back onto this "digital mixing" thread? > >Bill >-- >http://www.chromedecay.org > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-10 19:49Jon> > http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2000/HPL-2000-104.html > http://www.hpl.hp.com/techr
From:
Jon
To:
Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:49:55 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <3A33DE63.E81E9528@swbell.net>
quoted 3 lines > > http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2000/HPL-2000-104.html > http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2000/HPL-2000-104.pdf
Wow.... As a dj, im frightened, very very frightened. Interesting article tho, thanks for posting it up here............. hrm. cdin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-10 21:00Kevin Ryan @<<The real benefit, of course, would be for CD mixers. It has the potential to take some o
From:
Kevin Ryan @
To:
Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 2000 21:00:28 -0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <F27782BEsbYYN3kzLwG00013db9@hotmail.com>
<<The real benefit, of course, would be for CD mixers. It has the potential to take some of the drudgery out of mixing and instead give the DJ more time to do more interesting things.>> <snip> Right. On the subject of matching beats, IM unqualified O: I might be alone here, but I don't mind if DJs use auto beatmatching. I mean, usually when you see a DJ you take it for granted that they're not going to trainwreck mixes. What's interesting is their track selection, how they line up tracks, and how they tweak (sorry) the mix. That's where the real personality of the mix resides (as opposed to the rote mindless act of matching tempi). Anyone can beatmatch, even a machine. So I wouldn't care if a DJ removed the pointless burden of beatmatching in order to focus on the more artistic and skillful parts of the mix (that machines can't handle), namely aligning tracks and mixing per se. ((That article discussed software controlling mixing levels, but it couldn't really line up tracks right unless the tracks followed textbook 32-32-32-32 with standard intro and outro 4/floor sections every single time or the user told it exactly where tracks should be introduced or cut. I admit I don't really get how the software could work; it would be a totally lame mix either way. But forget it.)) The best techno DJs I've trainspotted just sort of throw down a record and just slide it to the right speed without a second thought and then focus their attention on working the mixer and selecting tracks (including coordinating where tracks start and stop). The beatmatching is just an afterthought nobody really cares about except in the uncommon event that they fuck up the mix. (And if DJs are intentionally mismatching beats, that's cool too. But the vast majority of DJs are just shooting for a tight mix. [Hip hop being one big exception.]) And as far as producing mixtapes in a studio setting, which that article seemed to be about, I'm concerned about the product more than the process. If it sounds good, I don't care what they did in the studio to make it sound good. And who cares if jocks use CDs? (Well, I won't go there.) Just some thoughts. ps. I attached a photo of me with my record collection to this email. Check it out! np: Astral Projection _Another World_ _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-10 21:39William VanLoosprek@soundmangle.com wrote: > > um, spin vinyl. What is it with people and cd's? and now
From:
William VanLoo
To:
Cc:
Medium Graham , Independent Dub Monsters
Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 2000 13:39:47 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <3A33F823.5CF03B7D@mediaone.net>
sprek@soundmangle.com wrote:
quoted 3 lines um, spin vinyl. What is it with people and cd's? and now yer trying to take> > um, spin vinyl. What is it with people and cd's? and now yer trying to take > all of the talent out of matching beats(if any)? um....spin vinyl.
Um, I do. Um...I do spin vinyl. Um, check my website for plenty of mixes I've done (using vinyl). Um, I was trying to start some discussion regarding the future of mixing, because um, CD mixing does not equal the end of vinyl mixing, it signals a broadening of the entire field of mixing sound together. Um, why are we talking like this? BVL -- http://www.chromedecay.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-10 20:54gweinstock@HWS.EDUjust to chime in here, i think the idea is really neat, and we needn't bring in issues of
From:
To:
William VanLoo
Cc:
, Medium Graham , Independent Dub Monsters
Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:54:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
Reply to:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <Pine.PMDF.3.96.1001210154650.72404A-100000@HWS.EDU>
just to chime in here, i think the idea is really neat, and we needn't bring in issues of whether or not it detracts from the merit of the art form. that is just as creatively stifling in its own way. i personally think it would be really cool to rip a bunch of tracks from my vinyl, encode them in a format with bpm info and maybe an offset specifying where beats fall, and then load the tracks into something like winamp. after that, you could just set an option, and get a random continuously mixed set without any train wrecks. it would be great to just burn a couple of minidiscs of different randomly generated computer mixes to bring on the train. are there any programmers on list besides myself who might want to implement this? we could set up a cvs repository on sourceforge or something. i'm thinking we could use modified mp3 format files. g. On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, William VanLoo wrote:
quoted 16 lines sprek@soundmangle.com wrote:> sprek@soundmangle.com wrote: > > > > um, spin vinyl. What is it with people and cd's? and now yer trying to take > > all of the talent out of matching beats(if any)? um....spin vinyl. > > Um, I do. Um...I do spin vinyl. Um, check my website for plenty of mixes > I've done (using vinyl). Um, I was trying to start some discussion > regarding the future of mixing, because um, CD mixing does not equal the > end of vinyl mixing, it signals a broadening of the entire field of > mixing sound together. > > Um, why are we talking like this? > > BVL > -- > http://www.chromedecay.org
- gabriel weinstock: music director WEOS 89.7/90.3 FM geneva NY "public radio with a difference" hobart and william smith colleges (315)-781-3812 gweinstock@hws.edu gweinstock_2001@yahoo.com - --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-12-11 04:05Kevin MurphyWilliam VanLoo wrote: > OK, I just thought of something. > > What if producers started enc
From:
Kevin Murphy
To:
William VanLoo
Cc:
Medium Graham , Independent Dub Monsters
Date:
Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:05:42 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] HP Lab's automatic DJ
permalink · <3A345296.4C93FFB7@eorbit.net>
William VanLoo wrote:
quoted 5 lines OK, I just thought of something.> OK, I just thought of something. > > What if producers started encoding the digital forms of their tracks > (that is, CD or MP3) with tempo information similar to the way video has > timecode? That way, an automated system like the above wouldn't have to guess.
The ID3v2 spec has allowances for such information. Unfortunately, the spec is huge, slightly cryptic, and no player currently supports more than a fraction of its features. h -- Kevin | "Philosophy, improperly applied, inevitably Murphy | leads to paralysis." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org