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Re: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance

6 messages · 5 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
2000-09-21 21:54Gause, Brian RE: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
2000-09-21 22:38Chris Fahey RE: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
2000-09-21 22:54William Samuels RE: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
2000-09-21 23:57steve Re: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
2000-09-22 19:25Re: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
2000-09-22 23:32William Samuels Re: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
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2000-09-21 21:54Gause, BrianI feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first album was well produced. If there's one
From:
Gause, Brian
To:
Date:
Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:54:26 -0700
Subject:
RE: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
permalink · <8F4C99C66D04D4118F580090272A7A2325D817@SECTORBASE1>
I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first album was well produced. If there's one thing Trent can do, it's production work. He's a bit of an emotional humpty-dumpty and he's not so quiet as he could be, but... And as for "bad" music? Okay, first of all, let's all understand. I DO NOT LIKE N-SYNC. But, many people do. To some degree, you have to accept that these people like N-Sync over other 'similar' groups and realize that there is SOME thought involved. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're simply BAD. Quite a few people like Janet Jackson because she dances well AND sings. Others like N-Sync because they're heavily involved with their fans. Others prefer Brittany Spears because she's selling sex and not doing such a bad job of it. There is more to music than the intellectual noodling that composes much of IDM. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a significant percentage of the population believes IDM and its ilk to be musical masturbation...not really music, but experimentation for its own sake. For many, music is entertainment...or meaning (i.e. lyrics)...or politics...or escape...or sex. It's not always about your brain going "cool, that sounds neat." It's an unfair oversimplification to say that IDM is cool and most other music is shit. You like IDM for your reasons, other people prefer N-Sync for their own reasons...why is it necessary to be cool and unique at the expense of the rest of the world??? Just enjoy what you like, have a little respect for others and allow them their opinions. ---brian ------------------------ Brian W. Gause Senior Technical Writer SECTORBASE.com 568 Howard Street First Floor San Francisco, CA 94105 Direct: (415) 365-8203 Fax: (415) 365-8263 -----Original Message----- From: Ron Jeremy [mailto:galactic_funk@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 1:27 PM To: PLeXitMIND@aol.com Cc: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [idm] Radiohead - Kid A I think if you sellout and get a shitload of money from a major label, you can afford to be very indulgent on making your music. And drop loads of money in the studio to get that production quality.
quoted 5 lines From: PLeXitMIND@aol.com>From: PLeXitMIND@aol.com > >I can't think of any current American electronic artists whose >albums have the production value and mixdowns as represented on NIN > >albums. There is definitely a lot to be learned from NIN strictly from >a
quoted 1 line producer and engineer point of view.>producer and engineer point of view.
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2000-09-21 22:38Chris Fahey> I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first album was > well produced. > If there
From:
Chris Fahey
To:
Date:
Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:38:19 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
permalink · <D79909C367EAD3118D3E00508B9B0EF5765718@NYC3MSG01>
quoted 3 lines I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first album was> I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first album was > well produced. > If there's one thing Trent can do, it's production work.
From what I understand he hired about three real studio engineers (which, as anyone who works in a large studio knows, is the person who does all the real production work) many years ago and makes them do all the producing work. I picture it like this. Trent sitting in his basement (catacombs, whatever) studio on a throne, smoking a pipe, sipping cognac, and telling his "assistants" to "Make it darker! Make it, like, you know, cyber, like Autechre but more eerie and less gay! And make sure it's, like, hard, you know. And dark." - Cf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-21 22:54William Samuels--- "Gause, Brian" <bgause@SECTORBASE.COM> wrote: > I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but ev
From:
William Samuels
To:
Gause, Brian ,
Date:
Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:54:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
RE: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
permalink · <20000921225432.12784.qmail@web2106.mail.yahoo.com>
--- "Gause, Brian" <bgause@SECTORBASE.COM> wrote:
quoted 2 lines I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first> I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first > album was well produced.
One of my dj friends will buy records that i don't really care for sometimes. When I asked him if he really likes it (out of curiosity), he usually says "it's tightly produced". Which really didn't answer my question. Just because something is tightly produced doesn't make it good.
quoted 3 lines If there's one thing Trent can do, it's production> If there's one thing Trent can do, it's production > work. He's a bit of an emotional humpty-dumpty and > he's not so quiet as he could be, but...
I always thought Cevin Key was the man, not Trent.
quoted 5 lines And as for "bad" music? Okay, first of all, let's> And as for "bad" music? Okay, first of all, let's > all understand. I DO NOT LIKE N-SYNC. But, many > people do. To some degree, you have to accept that > these people like N-Sync over other 'similar' groups > and realize that there is SOME thought involved.
I agree there is some thought in Boy Bands, it's how can we make a shitload of money.
quoted 2 lines Just because you don't like them doesn't mean> Just because you don't like them doesn't mean > they're simply BAD.
Call it what it means to you. Everytime someone says they don't like something somebody has to say "that's your opinion not the truth", no shit...there are few "universal truths" discussed on this list. Some people will like some artists, some won't...we don't need to remind the people that it is their opinion...I'm sure they know that. Discuss and argue, just stop pointing out the OBVIOUS. EVERYONE can tell the difference between opinions and fact.
quoted 5 lines Quite a few people like Janet Jackson because she> Quite a few people like Janet Jackson because she > dances well AND sings. Others like N-Sync because > they're heavily involved with their fans. Others > prefer Brittany Spears because she's selling sex and > not doing such a bad job of it.
Who cares?
quoted 2 lines There is more to music than the intellectual> There is more to music than the intellectual > noodling that composes much of IDM.
Sure, if you can't say something is good or bad, then how can you really talk about anything. I doubt that whatever expression or feeling you attach to it will be universally felt and agreed upon. You could argue about it forever. That's why I always say talk about what it means to you, and not worry about it.
quoted 4 lines In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a significant> In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a significant > percentage of the population believes IDM and its > ilk to be musical masturbation...not really > music, but experimentation for its own sake.
I think there is a fair number of people that don't consider electronic music as music. I have heard some people say that some idm is random for the sake of it, I can agree on that for some things.
quoted 4 lines For many, music is entertainment...or meaning (i.e.> For many, music is entertainment...or meaning (i.e. > lyrics)...or politics...or escape...or sex. It's not > always about your brain going "cool, that sounds > neat."
That seems certainly evident at many raves and clubs I have been to. Party music typically isn't very deep.
quoted 2 lines It's an unfair oversimplification to say that IDM is> It's an unfair oversimplification to say that IDM is > cool and most other music is shit.
I never heard anyone say that. I think most people should listen to a wide range of music. When the whole laptop mouse clicking discussion was going on, it was sort of funny how some people reacted. Some people painted the worst scenario of seeing a rock show, and then compared that to seeing someone click a laptop. I was thinking to myself why are these people trying to be so elitist and act like there are absolutely no good non-electronic artists out there worth seeing. There are good and bad things in every genre. Mouse clicking happens to be one of the bad things for me, that's not a performance.
quoted 1 line You like IDM for your reasons, other people prefer> You like IDM for your reasons, other people prefer
N-> Sync for their own reasons...why is it necessary to > be cool and unique at the expense of the rest of the > world??? Just because you like and dislike stuff doesn't mean you are "being cool and unique" at someone else's expense. I don't think one should surpress their opinions or ideas, and worry about what others think. Why join a sea of blandness, and not have your own opinion about anything?
quoted 2 lines Just enjoy what you like, have a little respect for> Just enjoy what you like, have a little respect for > others and allow them their opinions.
Don't worry about what other people think, express yourself. Who cares if someone does or doesn't like what you like. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-21 23:57steveengineers sometimes do a lot of the production work...but I think many people have a misco
From:
steve
To:
Chris Fahey , idm
Date:
Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:57:53 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
permalink · <200009211601.QAA08410@smtp.ixpres.com>
engineers sometimes do a lot of the production work...but I think many people have a misconception as to what a producer is....typically he's the guy who brings in rack cases full of guitars/fx/gear/knows what sound to go for and what the band wants and says okay that was a good take but let's try this...and the gutar player plays the same note again and they punch him in in the same spot yada yada yada yada..although many times the producer comes in w/pro-tools rig and midi gear and and transfers tracks from modules and computer to analog or whatever then other muscicians come in and play over/replace a lot of what's there..then some singer walks in who's only heard the song 10 times and sits there singing into a mic into pro-tools repeating the same lines over and over so the producer (now editor) can comp the vocals into one take using every autotune plug-in available anyway....producer is very misleading. I've seen them stand in the back and yell at a singer and then leave come back in 2 hours and listen then not give any reason why but just say do it again...then come back and come back and say yeah..that's better...sometimes the engineers/talent don't do a thing to the take and just hang out and wait however...I feel that Mr. reznor has to be a bit more involved than that...sure..he has programmers/sound designers/a 2million dollar console and oodles of time/gear to get what he wants but i just don't see him as the mindless twit your sarchastic (?) example makes him out to be. i wonder if cognac helps...hmm I'll try. though port wine didn't so... there. 1 cup coffee = NIN defense ramble..heh. steve ----------
quoted 5 lines From: Chris Fahey <Chris.Fahey@raremedium.com>>From: Chris Fahey <Chris.Fahey@raremedium.com> >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: RE: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance >Date: Thu, Sep 21, 2000, 2:38 PM >
quoted 22 lines I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first album was>> I feel a bit odd defending NIN, but even his first album was >> well produced. >> If there's one thing Trent can do, it's production work. > > From what I understand he hired about three real studio engineers (which, as > anyone who works in a large studio knows, is the person who does all the > real production work) many years ago and makes them do all the producing > work. > > I picture it like this. Trent sitting in his basement (catacombs, whatever) > studio on a throne, smoking a pipe, sipping cognac, and telling his > "assistants" to "Make it darker! Make it, like, you know, cyber, like > Autechre but more eerie and less gay! And make sure it's, like, hard, you > know. And dark." > > - Cf > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2000-09-22 19:25Loptimiste@aol.comIn a message dated 9/21/00 3:55:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, w_technoir@yahoo.com writes:
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To:
Date:
Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:25:13 EDT
Subject:
Re: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
permalink · <65.a0b4a95.26fd0c19@aol.com>
In a message dated 9/21/00 3:55:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, w_technoir@yahoo.com writes: << I always thought Cevin Key was the man, not Trent. >> I've been less than impressed with his production jobs that I've heard on albums other than his own.. I mean... Just listen to the new Orgy song on the radio. J --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-09-22 23:32William Samuels--- Loptimiste@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/21/00 3:55:23 PM Pacific > Daylight T
From:
William Samuels
To:
,
Date:
Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:32:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] NIN-bashing and intolerance
permalink · <20000922233201.14947.qmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com>
--- Loptimiste@aol.com wrote:
quoted 12 lines In a message dated 9/21/00 3:55:23 PM Pacific> In a message dated 9/21/00 3:55:23 PM Pacific > Daylight Time, > w_technoir@yahoo.com writes: > > << I always thought Cevin Key was the man, not > Trent. >> > > I've been less than impressed with his production > jobs that I've heard on > albums other than his own.. I mean... Just listen > to the new Orgy song on > the radio.
Orgy? No thanks! There are too many other records coming out every week for me to waste my time with artists like Orgy. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org