IDM Mailing Archive

1999-12-30 22:08Cesium5Hz@aol.com> > I believe a wise Zen Artist once said "All Techno comes from Dub, and all > Dub > > co

From:: <Cesium5Hz@aol.com>
To:: <blag@ultra.gawth.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 17:08:14 EST
Subject:: Re: (idm) this is the winter of our monkey

quoted 12 lines I believe a wise Zen Artist once said "All Techno comes from Dub, and all

> > I believe a wise Zen Artist once said "All Techno comes from Dub, and all > Dub > > comes from Techno". > > > > Past, present and future... > > *cough* > > Umm, I'd find a new Zen Artist, as it's a known fact that King Tubby > wasn't listening to techno before he started twisting knobs down in JA. > The statement should be more like "All dub comes from King Tubby. All > techno is techno."

Actually, I think this Zen Artist is better known as Mad Professor and I doubt that he was referring to our rather limited conception of linear time. All Dub certainly did not come from King Tubby. It came from the shamanist-rhythmic spheres of the witchdoctor, which in African culture is the source of the mystical experience - that which allows the use of trance in healing. This rhythmic trance was and is very similar in structure to modern techno music. Both forms are uniquely intertwined - one reflects the effect of trance, the other of the dance. It is not coincidental that modern electronic dub music ala Basic Channel, Chain Reaction and Rhythm & Sound camps have a strong basis in mystical music - the reduction in sound structure is their extension into the spirit world. The dub was, is and ever shall be... Peace, A Z --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

1999-12-30 22:45BlagOn Thu, 30 Dec 1999 Cesium5Hz@aol.com wrote: > Actually, I think this Zen Artist is better

From:: Blag <blag@ultra.gawth.com>
To:: <Cesium5Hz@aol.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:45:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject:: (idm) who's your daddy?
Reply to:: Re: (idm) this is the winter of our monkey

On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 Cesium5Hz@aol.com wrote:

quoted 12 lines Actually, I think this Zen Artist is better known as Mad Professor and I

> Actually, I think this Zen Artist is better known as Mad Professor and I > doubt that he was referring to our rather limited conception of linear time. > All Dub certainly did not come from King Tubby. It came from the > shamanist-rhythmic spheres of the witchdoctor, which in African culture is > the source of the mystical experience - that which allows the use of trance > in healing. This rhythmic trance was and is very similar in structure to > modern techno music. Both forms are uniquely intertwined - one reflects the > effect of trance, the other of the dance. It is not coincidental that modern > electronic dub music ala Basic Channel, Chain Reaction and Rhythm & Sound > camps have a strong basis in mystical music - the reduction in sound > structure is their extension into the spirit world. > The dub was, is and ever shall be...

Umm, you can talk about witchdoctors and mystics if you want, but King Tubby invented dub. Period. I'm sure if you asked the Mad Professor directly, he'd also tell you that King Tubby is the "dub originator." Don't take it from me, take it from Steve Barrow: "Today the remix and dub version are commonplace in popular music; less widely appreciated is the fact that these techniques were pioneered in a tiny studio at 18 Bromilly Avenue in the Kingston district called Waterhouse. That pioneer of dub was an electronics engineer and sound system operator named Osbourne Ruddock, but to the crowds who flocked to his dances, and the countless singers and record producers who utilised his skills, he was known as King Tubby." You can download the rest from bloodandfire.co.uk, it's the liner notes to "Dub Gone Crazy." Every style of music is based on what came before, and no one benefits from skipping the intermediaries. Jumping straight back to some african witchdoctor without giving any props to King Tubby is just plain wrong. Where does Fela Kuti fit into this? He's a lot closer to a witchdoctor than King Tubby was, I mean, he was in Africa, and he did 20 minute long songs with trance inducing precussion and call and response sections, but I wouldn't describe *anything* that he did as "dub." How does that fit? I guess I'm freaking out a little bit too much, but Tubby is completely overlooked by just about every electronic music fan I've ever met in my life, and I can't figure out why, mainly because he was a fucking genius *and* none of ths stuff we're listening to today would even exist if he didn't come up with the flying cymbal (and those spring-reverb thunderclaps and the dropped in test tones, etc etc) first. You can't go to the record store and talk to a witchdoctor for inspiration, but you can go and buy a King Tubby album. I'd say that King Tubby is more of an inspiration to most musicians than witchdoctors are. Umm, can I get an amen? .Bil. [[obtain clearance before copying]] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

1999-12-31 00:00J. [followed by] A.amen. --- Jeremy Axon HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ---------------------

From:: J. [followed by] A. <interlock@hotbot.com>
To:: Blag <blag@ultra.gawth.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 16:00:07 -0800
Subject:: Re: (idm) who's your daddy?

amen. --- Jeremy Axon HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

1999-12-31 03:53Andrew DukeBig props to Blood & Fire for lovingly reissuing this classic and underappreciated seminal

From:: Andrew Duke <cognition@ns.sympatico.ca>
To:: Blag <blag@ultra.gawth.com>
Cc:: <Cesium5Hz@aol.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 23:53:53 -0400
Subject:: Re: (idm) who's your daddy?

Big props to Blood & Fire for lovingly reissuing this classic and underappreciated seminal music, and putting so much info in the liner notes. Andrew Duke :) Blag wrote:

quoted 60 lines On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 Cesium5Hz@aol.com wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 Cesium5Hz@aol.com wrote: > > > Actually, I think this Zen Artist is better known as Mad Professor and I > > doubt that he was referring to our rather limited conception of linear time. > > All Dub certainly did not come from King Tubby. It came from the > > shamanist-rhythmic spheres of the witchdoctor, which in African culture is > > the source of the mystical experience - that which allows the use of trance > > in healing. This rhythmic trance was and is very similar in structure to > > modern techno music. Both forms are uniquely intertwined - one reflects the > > effect of trance, the other of the dance. It is not coincidental that modern > > electronic dub music ala Basic Channel, Chain Reaction and Rhythm & Sound > > camps have a strong basis in mystical music - the reduction in sound > > structure is their extension into the spirit world. > > The dub was, is and ever shall be... > > Umm, you can talk about witchdoctors and mystics if you want, but King > Tubby invented dub. Period. I'm sure if you asked the Mad Professor > directly, he'd also tell you that King Tubby is the "dub originator." > Don't take it from me, take it from Steve Barrow: > > "Today the remix and dub version are commonplace in popular music; less > widely appreciated is the fact that these techniques were pioneered in a > tiny studio at 18 Bromilly Avenue in the Kingston district called > Waterhouse. That pioneer of dub was an electronics engineer and sound > system operator named Osbourne Ruddock, but to the crowds who flocked to > his dances, and the countless singers and record producers who utilised > his skills, he was known as King Tubby." > > You can download the rest from bloodandfire.co.uk, it's the liner notes to > "Dub Gone Crazy." > > Every style of music is based on what came before, and no one benefits > from skipping the intermediaries. Jumping straight back to some african > witchdoctor without giving any props to King Tubby is just plain wrong. > > Where does Fela Kuti fit into this? He's a lot closer to a witchdoctor > than King Tubby was, I mean, he was in Africa, and he did 20 minute long > songs with trance inducing precussion and call and response sections, but > I wouldn't describe *anything* that he did as "dub." How does that fit? > > I guess I'm freaking out a little bit too much, but Tubby is completely > overlooked by just about every electronic music fan I've ever met in my > life, and I can't figure out why, mainly because he was a fucking genius > *and* none of ths stuff we're listening to today would even exist if he > didn't come up with the flying cymbal (and those spring-reverb > thunderclaps and the dropped in test tones, etc etc) first. > > You can't go to the record store and talk to a witchdoctor for > inspiration, but you can go and buy a King Tubby album. I'd say that King > Tubby is more of an inspiration to most musicians than witchdoctors are. > > Umm, can I get an amen? > > .Bil. > > [[obtain clearance before copying]] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

-- Fundraising Auction for CKDU ends Friday Dec 31 12noon AST (8AM PST, 11AM EST, 4 PM GMT) on http://techno.ca/cognition Cognition/Andrew Duke's In The Mix mailto:cognition@techno.ca http://techno.ca/cognition 1096 Queen St #123 Halifax NS Canada B3H 2R9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

1999-12-31 05:20Cesium5Hz@aol.comIn a message dated 31/12/99 6:50:07 blag@ultra.gawth.com writes: > mm, you can talk about

From:: <Cesium5Hz@aol.com>
To:: <blag@ultra.gawth.com>, <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 00:20:21 EST
Subject:: Re: (idm) who's your daddy?

In a message dated 31/12/99 6:50:07 blag@ultra.gawth.com writes:

quoted 12 lines mm, you can talk about witchdoctors and mystics if you want, but King

> mm, you can talk about witchdoctors and mystics if you want, but King > Tubby invented dub. Period. I'm sure if you asked the Mad Professor > directly, he'd also tell you that King Tubby is the "dub originator." > Don't take it from me, take it from Steve Barrow: > > "Today the remix and dub version are commonplace in popular music; less > widely appreciated is the fact that these techniques were pioneered in a > tiny studio at 18 Bromilly Avenue in the Kingston district called > Waterhouse. That pioneer of dub was an electronics engineer and sound > system operator named Osbourne Ruddock, but to the crowds who flocked to > his dances, and the countless singers and record producers who utilised > his skills, he was known as King Tubby."

quoted 3 lines Every style of music is based on what came before, and no one benefits

> Every style of music is based on what came before, and no one benefits > from skipping the intermediaries. Jumping straight back to some african > witchdoctor without giving any props to King Tubby is just plain wrong.

quoted 16 lines Where does Fela Kuti fit into this? He's a lot closer to a witchdoctor

> Where does Fela Kuti fit into this? He's a lot closer to a witchdoctor > than King Tubby was, I mean, he was in Africa, and he did 20 minute long > songs with trance inducing precussion and call and response sections, but > I wouldn't describe *anything* that he did as "dub." How does that fit? > > I guess I'm freaking out a little bit too much, but Tubby is completely > overlooked by just about every electronic music fan I've ever met in my > life, and I can't figure out why, mainly because he was a fucking genius > *and* none of ths stuff we're listening to today would even exist if he > didn't come up with the flying cymbal (and those spring-reverb > thunderclaps and the dropped in test tones, etc etc) first. > > You can't go to the record store and talk to a witchdoctor for > inspiration, but you can go and buy a King Tubby album. I'd say that King > Tubby is more of an inspiration to most musicians than witchdoctors are. >

I think in this instance Steve is directly referring to the ' modern ' pioneer of dub. I only maintained that not 'ALL' dub came from King Tubby. This is not to detract from his genius in the sphere of revolutionizing this sound production. What I was referring to was probably more along the lines of ethno-musicology which goes back into the roots of dub. Perhaps I travelled to far back. Perhaps we are arguing with different paradigms. We must be a bit more discerning when we credit someone with being an 'originator' - most times this is often misunderstood with 'innovator'. For a more elaborate example of the nature of shamanistic ritual music and its relationship with modern dub music check out the Ethno Tribal Dance CD on the Melt 2000 label. And I must add that Bob Marley was certainly fascinated by the power of withdoctor music that he did travel to Africa seeking this mystic experience. :~) A Z --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

1999-12-31 07:28Michael Upton>===== Original Message From idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org ===== Blag <blag@ultra.gawth.co

From:: Michael Upton <jetjag@MailAndNews.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 02:28:48 -0500
Subject:: RE: (idm) who's your daddy?

quoted 1 line ===== Original Message From idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org =====

>===== Original Message From idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org =====

Blag <blag@ultra.gawth.com> wrote:

quoted 6 lines I guess I'm freaking out a little bit too much, but Tubby is completely

>I guess I'm freaking out a little bit too much, but Tubby is completely >overlooked by just about every electronic music fan I've ever met in my >life, and I can't figure out why, mainly because he was a fucking genius >*and* none of ths stuff we're listening to today would even exist if he >didn't come up with the flying cymbal (and those spring-reverb >thunderclaps and the dropped in test tones, etc etc) first.

quoted 3 lines You can't go to the record store and talk to a witchdoctor for

>You can't go to the record store and talk to a witchdoctor for >inspiration, but you can go and buy a King Tubby album. I'd say that King >Tubby is more of an inspiration to most musicians than witchdoctors are.

quoted 1 line Umm, can I get an amen?

>Umm, can I get an amen?

Amen! It does surprise me to read electronic fans you meet overlook Tubby because, well, most anyone into electronic music in New Zealand seems to at least know and accept the impact of reggae, and thus gives due respect to what Tubby did. Maybe it's being an island nation and ting. ;-) Michael PS. I don't mean to make reference to the fact I'm in New Zealand in every second post, this time it was strictly relevant. :-) 3 and a half hours til the new year here... hope the sky clears up some so that we _are_ actually the first people to see the dawn. A bit of ol' 'Armagideon Time' seems appropriate about now! ;-) -+- Jet Jaguar MP3s http://mp3.com/jetjag/ -+- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

(idm) who's your daddy?