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(idm) More long MP3 stuff...

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◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) more long mp3 stuff... · (idm) mp3s & you
1999-03-02 07:21joemull (idm) mp3s & you
├─ 1999-03-02 07:47Sam Frank (idm) More long MP3 stuff...
└─ 1999-03-02 08:15szalemandre Re: (idm) mp3s & you
├─ 1999-03-02 17:54ChairCrusher Re: (idm) mp3s & you
│ └─ 1999-03-02 18:08szalemandre Re: (idm) mp3s & you
└─ 1999-03-02 22:59Jeff Davis <pHlow> Re: (idm) mp3s & you
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1999-03-02 07:21joemull>>but I reckon that MP3's are just the >>cassette for the next millenium. > >hopefully, ev
From:
joemull
To:
eric hill ,
Date:
Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:21:19 -0800
Subject:
(idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <005d01be647d$5b32d460$5430a2d1@oemcomputer>
quoted 8 lines but I reckon that MP3's are just the>>but I reckon that MP3's are just the >>cassette for the next millenium. > >hopefully, everybody else will come to the same conclusion, because then >they can shut up about this non-revolution. what is this, the 3rd time in >20 years (8-track, cassette, mp3)? > >eric
Why the majority still doesnt like mp3s: humans still love to own material objects that have been made/manufactured. people can claim a record, cd, or cassette is "art"; they own a "piece." it's always difficult to make consumers adopt a discontinous innovation, much less something they can't hold in their hands. so shifting from owning a "thing" versus a "software file on a computer" is a wacky idea to the majority. when you own mp3s, you don't own anything material, and most people dont like that. nobody could ever mp3 the v/vm pigeon feathers, the lucky kitchen felt patches, the caroliner open wound chorale dirt, watercolor, and bits of glued trash. if media for music must remain, the most logical next of kind would be a rewritable dvd since it holds much more data than a cd yet is still readable by regular cd players. for the next recordable media to become standardized, it should probably be accessible by those who wont throw away their cd players. look at minidisc. great product but who wants to put a md player on the stereo rack and start collecting all over just to expect some other new media to replace it two years from now? Why mp3s are really the way to go: assuming most on this list have pcs, would you buy mp3 files that have video streams for each song, the tracklist and cover art too? (encrypted mp3s from the web, purchased directly from a label's e-commerce site.) barring sound quality of the latest mp3 technology, all mp3s are missing is the neet cover and the runout inscription on the vinyl, right? what if you could upload your mp3s to a cpu based stereo jukebox that stores and reads mp3s? you could have acess to everything on this "music server" when you power it up, instead of starting up your pc & os. then would mp3s be more attractive? i believe that a media free environment is a revolution for two reasons: - nothing needs to be shipped when the music is purchased, you can just buy on the web & download on the spot - if your jukebox has enough memory, you will only need to upload the files to your player once; cd players/turntables require repeated manual changing for playback of different selections/releases/"LPs" (barring cd & vinyl jukeboxes.) Why bother if it's all for free anyway? i think the revolution should eventually happen, but the artists should be concerned about getting paid! the music industry should quit the fight against mp3 files and scramble to encrypt & license recordings. mp3 file ownership should be billable just like software. once a system is squared away, a small label could potentially have the same distribution power as a major label, and consumers may even dare to buy independent music that is different because it will be easier for consumers to find. Am i saying to burn & stop pressing all vinyl? no. matter of fact it would be cool if those who buy the mp3s online could get the real thing sent for a few xtra dollars. that way the "works of art" could still be appreciated, and the limited pieces could still be traded for hundreds of $s.
1999-03-02 07:47Sam FrankPlease don't let this thread degenerate, it's intelligent so far, just make your points, b
From:
Sam Frank
To:
joemull
Cc:
eric hill ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 02:47:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
(idm) More long MP3 stuff...
Reply to:
(idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.94.990302022718.27353A-100000@morpheus.cis.yale.edu>
Please don't let this thread degenerate, it's intelligent so far, just make your points, be polite, etc etc. Don't rehash old ground... Re: what ninjeff said... Record shopping is cool, and will keep plenty of people buying records. But, if you live anywhere without good record shops, your alternatives are basically online ordering, buying whatever CDs your local store happens to get in, or getting MP3s. The first option loses the appeal of physicality. if you're not a dj, might as well get an MP3 if you're not an audiophile. the second option is unappealing in its inflexibility if you live an area with crappy stores, or if you realize that the CD just isn't very satisfying. it's just another imperfect digital technology, eminently disposable, replaced by the next thing, like MP3s. Records are the last analog sound technology of any note, and as such they aren't made obsolete by MP3s in the same way CDs are. Getting MP3s is a pain, but i know that at school I have a direct connection that'll get me music in a few minutes. That's nice and convenient, and might overpower the urge to go shopping if i could actually find decent MP3s online. Beyond all of that, I think Walter Benjamin is pertinent right now. In "Art in the Age of mechanical reproduction," he talked about nthe process whereby art (and by extension, music), becomes less about the object, and more about the product. a very select group of people used to go to classical concerts in tuxes, applauded at all the right moments, and were generally forced to fetishize many things extraneous to the music. With mechanical reproduction, benjamin argues, art is given to the masses free of the pretense and pomp of high culture. You go to a noisy show in dirty clothes, listen to a CD in your own home on the cheap. Now, with digital reproduction, the object is further discarded, because it becomes irrelevant. Yeah, the physical presence of a record is nice, but unless you're a DJ, it's in many ways extraneous to the music itself. (And, to all you small labels who try to create fetish object limited editions, Benjamin would say you're living in the past.) Of course, blah blah blah limited editions are nice,a;bum art is nice, fetishes are nice, makes people happy, etc, we've been over it already. But to resist MP3s means that you should acknowledge how much you're fetishizing technology, not music. This all only becomes relevant once MP3 technology becomes more accessible, etc. You know the drill and all the counter-arguments that can be made. Enough outta me Sam
1999-03-02 08:15szalemandre> Why mp3s are really the way to go: i completely support this idea of "media-less" conten
From:
szalemandre
To:
joemull
Cc:
eric hill ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:15:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
(idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.990302025242.3780E-100000@juggler>
quoted 1 line Why mp3s are really the way to go:> Why mp3s are really the way to go:
i completely support this idea of "media-less" content. (it's not really media-less since it sits on a hard drive, which is a medium.) but the problem with mp3's is bandwidth. so far it's the best solution i suppose, but there's another interesting format that has a lot of potential: headspace's beatnik. http://www.beatnik.com. it offers cd-quality audio, and the file sizes rarely exceed 100k. go here for a look at what the future of music distribution can look like: http://home.earthlink.net/~phlow/file01.htm it's a link to the 4-song compilation ep called 'file01', first in a series called 'kromode', featuring bochum welt and kim cascone. i just hope that soon a system will be in place that will allow anyone who can create content to be able to distribute it. (proof of concept: the web) -eric --- eric sherman szale@doubtful.com doubtful productions www.doubtful.com
1999-03-02 17:54ChairCrusherOn Tue, 2 Mar 1999, szalemandre wrote: > > Why mp3s are really the way to go: > > i comple
From:
ChairCrusher
To:
Cc:
joemull , eric hill ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:54:36 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.990302114540.24446D-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, szalemandre wrote:
quoted 5 lines Why mp3s are really the way to go:> > Why mp3s are really the way to go: > > i completely support this idea of "media-less" content. (it's not really > media-less since it sits on a hard drive, which is a medium.) but the > problem with mp3's is bandwidth.
The problem I have with mp3 (and I use 'em, love 'em trade 'em etc) is the same problem I have with all digital storage -- once the decoding technology goes obsolete and people stop maintaining the decoders, you have media with no way to extract the content! Suppose 10 years ago I'd written the great american novel on my Commodore Vic 20 and saved it on a cassette? What chance will someone in 20 years have of decoding that? Art retains it's relevence long after the milieu from which it arises is dead and gone. Any medium for storing art ought to be accessible indefinitely. Not a promise computer media can safely make. The Dead Sea Scrolls were written on homemade paper 2k years ago, and they're still readable for the most part. One can only hope that 'modern' digital media will eventually reach that standard of usability in one tenth that amount of time.
1999-03-02 18:08szalemandre> The problem I have with mp3 (and I use 'em, love 'em trade 'em etc) is the > same proble
From:
szalemandre
To:
ChairCrusher
Cc:
joemull , eric hill ,
Date:
Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:08:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.990302130602.334G-100000@juggler>
quoted 4 lines The problem I have with mp3 (and I use 'em, love 'em trade 'em etc) is the> The problem I have with mp3 (and I use 'em, love 'em trade 'em etc) is the > same problem I have with all digital storage -- once the decoding technology > goes obsolete and people stop maintaining the decoders, you have media with > no way to extract the content!
that's easy: write a tool that converts the file from an obsolete format into a new up-to-date usable format. even in the tracker scene such things exist for converting XM files to IT files. (not like XM is inferior to IT, or vice versa, but rather the tool was designed to allow musicians to work in IT if they wanted to on songs that they started in fastTracker.) it's a simple problem that is certain to be taken care of. -eric --- eric sherman szale@doubtful.com doubtful productions www.doubtful.com
1999-03-02 22:59Jeff Davis <pHlow>On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:15:15 -0500 (EST), szalemandre <octorock@doubtful.com> said: >> Why
From:
Jeff Davis <pHlow>
To:
Date:
Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:59:02 GMT
Subject:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
Reply to:
Re: (idm) mp3s & you
permalink · <36ec6adf.349706273@mail.earthlink.net>
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:15:15 -0500 (EST), szalemandre <octorock@doubtful.com> said:
quoted 9 lines Why mp3s are really the way to go:>> Why mp3s are really the way to go: > >i completely support this idea of "media-less" content. (it's not really >media-less since it sits on a hard drive, which is a medium.) but the >problem with mp3's is bandwidth. so far it's the best solution i suppose, >but there's another interesting format that has a lot of potential: >headspace's beatnik. http://www.beatnik.com. it offers cd-quality audio, >and the file sizes rarely exceed 100k. >
beatnik really does offer a lot of potential for digital distribution, especially for electronic based music like idm. check out the headspace site for many examples of what kind of interactive music can be created on this platform.
quoted 5 lines go here for a look at what the future of music distribution can look like:>go here for a look at what the future of music distribution can look like: >http://home.earthlink.net/~phlow/file01.htm >it's a link to the 4-song compilation ep called 'file01', first in a >series called 'kromode', featuring bochum welt and kim cascone. >
case in point, the 4 tracks on FILE01 total 16 minutes and are only 161KB in total. truly emailable music. and for only $6! - support the concept if nothing else. realizing that content is something i appreciate between my ears, not in my hands (geez, i sound like a freakin' m&m's commercial) NP: lowfish: martin c. martin peeeeeeece, -- Jeff Davis pHlow@earthlink.net fn:216.533.6303 fx:216.266.2310 text:2165336303@mobile.att.net pHlow.linx: home.earthlink.net/~phlow/ Bochum Welt: www.bochumwelt.com Rotator Locator: hyperreal.org/music/rotator/