IDM Mailing Archive

Why do IDM labels continue such a high output of vinyl only releases? Arn't CDs still cheaper to make these days? Plus there are less variables with how the end product will sound. Don't get me wrong, I order as much vinyl as I can. I spin records and buy into the whole DJs use vinyl thing. I think in the past year for ever CD I've added to my collection, I've bought 5 vinyl releases. The only real problem with vinyl is when you move, it's a hassle. But,. i would think that there's a larger demand for CDs overall. I'm sure almost everyone on this list has a CD player. Maybe somewhere around half of us have a turntable or two (or three). So why in the IDM scene, where the emphasis from the consumer side isn't so much on turntable manipulations or DJ needs, are more than half of the new weekly releases still pressed on vinyl?? -Gil --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Gil asked:

quoted 3 lines So why in the IDM scene, where the emphasis from the consumer side isn't

> So why in the IDM scene, where the emphasis from the consumer side isn't > so much on turntable manipulations or DJ needs, are more than half of the > new weekly releases still pressed on vinyl??

1. it's character building. in a world where increasingly convenience is all, vinyl requires at least a little bit of effort and discipline. 2. prevents on the fly editing. some releases are just meant to be listened to all the way thru w/out skipping tracks. sometimes each side can be like a different record, sometimes you only get a minute and a half w/out having to think of putting something else on. basically its a different listening experience and variety is always a good thing. 3. sounds better. and i don't want to encourage a load of scientific mumbo jumbo about surface noise and sampling rates in response. but vinyl, to me, consistently sounds better. 4. if it has a cover, it will look better than one of those coaster postcards. -martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines So why in the IDM scene, where the emphasis from the consumer side isn't

>So why in the IDM scene, where the emphasis from the consumer side isn't >so much on turntable manipulations or DJ needs, are more than half of the >new weekly releases still pressed on vinyl??

Because hardly anybody has an 8-track anymore, and when reel-to-reel spools are done playing, the just make an annoying "flap, flap, flap" sound until you get up and turn them off. my theory anyway, ernie Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-4202 Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company Fort Worth, Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

A slight tangent, but has anybody seen this... http://www.n2it.net/finalscratch/ I'm a big lover of digital sound (especially since I don't possess a turntable) but I have to admit I think that dj-ing with digital formats is far inferior to vinyl. This looks like a good solution. I suspect it works by using a record with a steadily increasing or decreasing tone so that the computer can always work out where the needle has been placed. But why have they only released it for BeOS?? Ross. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Ross Balmer wrote:

quoted 6 lines I'm a big lover of digital sound (especially since I don't possess a

> I'm a big lover of digital sound (especially since I don't possess a > turntable) but I have to admit I think that dj-ing with digital > formats is far inferior to vinyl. This looks like a good solution. I > suspect it works by using a record with a steadily increasing or > decreasing tone so that the computer can always work out where the > needle has been placed. But why have they only released it for BeOS??

only BeOs can handle the data processing operations like this require. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# icq 5562209 hush - may i ask you all for silence? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I don't believe that at all. I won't argue in favour of Microsoft fatware (although if you threw enough hardware at it...) but surely it could be done on Linux just as easily. Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: laerm <laerm@voicenet.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl?

quoted 22 lines On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Ross Balmer wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Ross Balmer wrote: > > > I'm a big lover of digital sound (especially since I don't possess a > > turntable) but I have to admit I think that dj-ing with digital > > formats is far inferior to vinyl. This looks like a good solution. I > > suspect it works by using a record with a steadily increasing or > > decreasing tone so that the computer can always work out where the > > needle has been placed. But why have they only released it for BeOS?? > > only BeOs can handle the data processing operations like this require. > > * > #### > a disturbance in a system. #### > laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# > icq 5562209 hush - may i ask you all for silence? > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Oh joy, first someone brings up CD vs vinyl, and then with terrifying speed and virulence, the thread changes to a debate on OS merits. This is why we don't discuss CD vs vinyl, people!

quoted 57 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Balmer [mailto:ross@tui.co.uk] > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:45 PM > To: IDM > Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl? > > > I don't believe that at all. I won't argue in favour of > Microsoft fatware > (although if you threw enough hardware at it...) but surely > it could be done > on Linux just as easily. > > Ross > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: laerm <laerm@voicenet.com> > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:38 PM > Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl? > > > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Ross Balmer wrote: > > > > > I'm a big lover of digital sound (especially since I > don't possess a > > > turntable) but I have to admit I think that dj-ing with digital > > > formats is far inferior to vinyl. This looks like a good > solution. I > > > suspect it works by using a record with a steadily increasing or > > > decreasing tone so that the computer can always work out where the > > > needle has been placed. But why have they only released > it for BeOS?? > > > > only BeOs can handle the data processing operations like > this require. > > > > * > > #### > > a disturbance in a system. > #### > > laerm. @voicenet.com > ##:# > > icq 5562209 hush - may i ask you all for silence? > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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oh come on... no it's not a vinyl vs. CD question. I'm just wondering WHY there are still so many vinyl releases in this music genre. Martin Burbridge had some good ideas on the 'whys' of things. And that's what I'm hunting for. I mean.. It feels a lot better for me to show up at a gig with a record bag and no CD cases or or folders. It also takes us an extra step if we want to put vinyl only music into mp3 format. The manipulation of the music question is a moot point too. I guess if label managers chimed in, they'd say they release stuff on vinyl because the demand is there, but don't CD releases open up your music to many more consumers? These days, the vinyl club is pretty exclusive (in the grand sceme of things). anyway... On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Andrew Cowper wrote:

quoted 71 lines Oh joy, first someone brings up CD vs vinyl, and then with terrifying speed

> Oh joy, first someone brings up CD vs vinyl, and then with terrifying speed > and virulence, the thread changes to a debate on OS merits. > > This is why we don't discuss CD vs vinyl, people! > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ross Balmer [mailto:ross@tui.co.uk] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:45 PM > > To: IDM > > Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl? > > > > > > I don't believe that at all. I won't argue in favour of > > Microsoft fatware > > (although if you threw enough hardware at it...) but surely > > it could be done > > on Linux just as easily. > > > > Ross > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: laerm <laerm@voicenet.com> > > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:38 PM > > Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl? > > > > > > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Ross Balmer wrote: > > > > > > > I'm a big lover of digital sound (especially since I > > don't possess a > > > > turntable) but I have to admit I think that dj-ing with digital > > > > formats is far inferior to vinyl. This looks like a good > > solution. I > > > > suspect it works by using a record with a steadily increasing or > > > > decreasing tone so that the computer can always work out where the > > > > needle has been placed. But why have they only released > > it for BeOS?? > > > > > > only BeOs can handle the data processing operations like > > this require. > > > > > > * > > > #### > > > a disturbance in a system. > > #### > > > laerm. @voicenet.com > > ##:# > > > icq 5562209 hush - may i ask you all for silence? > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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word. It's a stupid argument.

quoted 76 lines From: Andrew Cowper <Andrew.Cowper@nettec.net>

>From: Andrew Cowper <Andrew.Cowper@nettec.net> >To: "'idm@hyperreal.org'" <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: RE: (idm) why vinyl? >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 18:47:16 -0000 > >Oh joy, first someone brings up CD vs vinyl, and then with terrifying speed >and virulence, the thread changes to a debate on OS merits. > >This is why we don't discuss CD vs vinyl, people! > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ross Balmer [mailto:ross@tui.co.uk] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:45 PM > > To: IDM > > Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl? > > > > > > I don't believe that at all. I won't argue in favour of > > Microsoft fatware > > (although if you threw enough hardware at it...) but surely > > it could be done > > on Linux just as easily. > > > > Ross > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: laerm <laerm@voicenet.com> > > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:38 PM > > Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl? > > > > > > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Ross Balmer wrote: > > > > > > > I'm a big lover of digital sound (especially since I > > don't possess a > > > > turntable) but I have to admit I think that dj-ing with digital > > > > formats is far inferior to vinyl. This looks like a good > > solution. I > > > > suspect it works by using a record with a steadily increasing or > > > > decreasing tone so that the computer can always work out where the > > > > needle has been placed. But why have they only released > > it for BeOS?? > > > > > > only BeOs can handle the data processing operations like > > this require. > > > > > > * > > > #### > > > a disturbance in a system. > > #### > > > laerm. @voicenet.com > > ##:# > > > icq 5562209 hush - may i ask you all for silence? > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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How about lossless vs. lossy compression? heh heh Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Cowper <Andrew.Cowper@nettec.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:47 PM Subject: RE: (idm) why vinyl?

quoted 1 line Oh joy, first someone brings up CD vs vinyl, and then with terrifying

> Oh joy, first someone brings up CD vs vinyl, and then with terrifying

speed

quoted 3 lines and virulence, the thread changes to a debate on OS merits.

> and virulence, the thread changes to a debate on OS merits. > > This is why we don't discuss CD vs vinyl, people!

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Ross, Nope, not that compelling or irritating. Try any of the following to really get people's panties in a wad: *Incunabula v. LP5 *SAWII v. RDJ album *Skam availability *H-2thamuthafuckin-k! v. no H-spellinlikeawackass-k! ;) laz Ross Balmer wrote:

quoted 20 lines How about lossless vs. lossy compression? heh heh

> > How about lossless vs. lossy compression? heh heh > > Ross > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrew Cowper <Andrew.Cowper@nettec.net> > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:47 PM > Subject: RE: (idm) why vinyl? > > > Oh joy, first someone brings up CD vs vinyl, and then with terrifying > speed > > and virulence, the thread changes to a debate on OS merits. > > > > This is why we don't discuss CD vs vinyl, people! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I have vinyl seat coverings. They are much more comfortable than sitting on CD's. --Chad

quoted 108 lines From: Gil <gyaker@fragment.com>

>From: Gil <gyaker@fragment.com> >To: IDM list <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: RE: (idm) why vinyl? >Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:08:16 -0500 (EST) > >oh come on... > > no it's not a vinyl vs. CD question. I'm just wondering WHY there are >still so many vinyl releases in this music genre. Martin Burbridge had >some good ideas on the 'whys' of things. And that's what I'm hunting for. > >I mean.. It feels a lot better for me to show up at a gig with a record >bag and no CD cases or or folders. It also takes us an extra step if we >want to put vinyl only music into mp3 format. The manipulation of the >music question is a moot point too. > >I guess if label managers chimed in, they'd say they release stuff on >vinyl because the demand is there, but don't CD releases open up your >music to many more consumers? These days, the vinyl club is pretty >exclusive (in the grand sceme of things). > >anyway... > > > > > >On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Andrew Cowper wrote: > > > Oh joy, first someone brings up CD vs vinyl, and then with terrifying >speed > > and virulence, the thread changes to a debate on OS merits. > > > > This is why we don't discuss CD vs vinyl, people! > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ross Balmer [mailto:ross@tui.co.uk] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:45 PM > > > To: IDM > > > Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl? > > > > > > > > > I don't believe that at all. I won't argue in favour of > > > Microsoft fatware > > > (although if you threw enough hardware at it...) but surely > > > it could be done > > > on Linux just as easily. > > > > > > Ross > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: laerm <laerm@voicenet.com> > > > To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 6:38 PM > > > Subject: Re: (idm) why vinyl? > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Ross Balmer wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm a big lover of digital sound (especially since I > > > don't possess a > > > > > turntable) but I have to admit I think that dj-ing with digital > > > > > formats is far inferior to vinyl. This looks like a good > > > solution. I > > > > > suspect it works by using a record with a steadily increasing or > > > > > decreasing tone so that the computer can always work out where the > > > > > needle has been placed. But why have they only released > > > it for BeOS?? > > > > > > > > only BeOs can handle the data processing operations like > > > this require. > > > > > > > > * > > > > #### > > > > a disturbance in a system. > > > #### > > > > laerm. @voicenet.com > > > ##:# > > > > icq 5562209 hush - may i ask you all for silence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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Because vinyl still has the whole DJ aspect and collecting aspect to it. Our sales on singles is typically stronger on vinyl then CD single (unless it's a packed single, ie. 'Timber' which had 6 tracks and 4 videos for single price). The packaging looks better. Some singles we only put out in generic Ninja sleeves, and you can't really do that from a retail perspective on CD's. A fat cut (ie. one or two tracks per side) of vinyl sounds better than any other format. Makes it harder for people to MP3 against our wishes (fine line between promotion and piracy after all). From a budget perpective, sometimes we decide to put out on one format only (it's expensive keeping 2 formats in print), and in that case vinyl will win unless there's somesort of digital aspect (ie. CD+/videos, etc...). Basically most indie labels are run by a bunch of obsessive record collecting geeks with thousands of pieces of vinyl crowding out their house....so really you got to expect this kind of thing. Jeff

quoted 17 lines oh come on...

>oh come on... > > no it's not a vinyl vs. CD question. I'm just wondering WHY there are >still so many vinyl releases in this music genre. Martin Burbridge had >some good ideas on the 'whys' of things. And that's what I'm hunting for. > >I mean.. It feels a lot better for me to show up at a gig with a record >bag and no CD cases or or folders. It also takes us an extra step if we >want to put vinyl only music into mp3 format. The manipulation of the >music question is a moot point too. > >I guess if label managers chimed in, they'd say they release stuff on >vinyl because the demand is there, but don't CD releases open up your >music to many more consumers? These days, the vinyl club is pretty >exclusive (in the grand sceme of things). > >anyway...

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I don't mean to sound like an ass.. but it would be a lot more considerate if people would quote only the relavent part of a 'current' message, instead of an entire digest of the thread, causing it to be very straining to read. -- Hillie "Some people said USENET would die. Some people said Linux will never compete seriously with Microsoft. Now some people say Unix will die.... Some people are really *bleeeeep*ing stupid." - Anonymous Coward --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org