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Re: (idm) Ken's glass house

4 messages · 4 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
1998-05-18 22:17Che Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
1998-05-20 01:32James Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
└─ 1998-05-19 19:08sfwd / Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
└─ 1998-05-20 11:06Adam Huffman Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
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1998-05-18 22:17CheAt 09:42 AM 5/18/98 -0500, Mr. Gil wrote: >Here's what I meant: Ken was in a group which m
From:
Che
To:
Intelligent Dumb Music
Date:
Mon, 18 May 1998 22:17:03 +0000 ()
Subject:
Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
permalink · <Pine.BSI.3.96.980518221548.11312A-100000@beacon.synthcom.com>
At 09:42 AM 5/18/98 -0500, Mr. Gil wrote:
quoted 3 lines Here's what I meant: Ken was in a group which made some really good>Here's what I meant: Ken was in a group which made some really good >records, then his bandmates left and he kept the name, reaping the benefit >of the good name earned by the work of three (or 2 1/2) musicians.
It's pretty clear that Ken was and is the Master of Dogma (and I mean that in a good way). Taking Black Dog away from him would have been like ripping his heart out. Ken's a very impassioned kinda guy. If you've listened to Ed & Andy's output, you can tell they don't get very excited about anything. Besides, Ed & Andy have been working to make Plaid an independent entity since
quoted 3 lines After>After >that, his bandmates made a really good record and he didn't, showing in >stunning relief who was responsible for BDP's genius.
You got that totally wrong - after that, his bandmates made a really mediocre record and he didn't, he made a GREAT record, and further demonstrated who had the talent by putting out an even GREATER live tape.
quoted 7 lines He (supposedly) accuses Bjork of using the talent of others. He might as>He (supposedly) accuses Bjork of using the talent of others. He might as >well have accused her of using Ed & Andy the same way he did, hence the >glass house remark (which was shorthand for "People in glass houses >shouldn't throw stones"). Using someone's talent then accusing someone >else of doing the same thing would be similar in a way to throwing stones >while living in a glass house. This is a clearer way to express my idea, >which is an opinion, obviously.
If you liked that tedious Not For Threes record, I can see how you might make that mistake.
quoted 3 lines If Ken ever makes a record anywhere near as good as "Not for Threes" I'll>If Ken ever makes a record anywhere near as good as "Not for Threes" I'll >be very surprised. He has the compositional skills of a tree based on >available evidence.
Why should he settle for making a record as good as Not For Threes when he's already made one ten times better?
quoted 2 lines Ken used to be on the list and he left in a huff when people didn't like>Ken used to be on the list and he left in a huff when people didn't like >"Music for Adverts".
I've been on the list for years, and I somehow either missed that, or failed to summon forth the imagination to see that, depending on your grasp on reality.
quoted 2 lines He said stuff about how he thought Plaid couldn't>He said stuff about how he thought Plaid couldn't >deliver.
I have to agree with him. I'm still waiting for post-Dog Plaid to deliver. Given that I haven't listened to Not For Threes in months, I'm debating whether I should sell it.
quoted 2 lines His remark about Bjork seems to imply that he thinks he has>His remark about Bjork seems to imply that he thinks he has >talent. He should prove it and then everyone can be happy.
It's bloody obvious he's got talent. Ken has nothing to prove, except maybe that he can be happy & nice. But then would he be so endearing? :) Che "so, like, you'll remember that the sex pistols didn't write *one* happy song then? I can claim a historical precedent for being a moody english bastard, who is 'difficult to work with'. I'm not going to "smile for the fucking camera" or play stupid corporate games for the sake of a few extra sales. Some people percieve that as my "personal bittery twistedness", and not the justified "rage against the establishment" that makes me get up in the morning. Fuck em." - The Black Dog
1998-05-20 01:32James>It's pretty clear that Ken was and is the Master of Dogma (and I mean that >in a good way
From:
James
To:
Date:
19 May 98 18:32:59 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
permalink · <199805200156.SAA02888@mailsun2.us.oracle.com>
quoted 3 lines It's pretty clear that Ken was and is the Master of Dogma (and I mean that>It's pretty clear that Ken was and is the Master of Dogma (and I mean that >in a good way). >...
All fine and dandy, but I think you're leaning a bit too far. I liked the Black Dog in its various styles and guises, some Ken's, some Andy's, some Ed's, some whatever. I think Bytes illustrates very well the mix of the threesome and their various stylistic leanings. Back then you could dig the sometimes disparate mix of styles, just as you can now. Given their illustrious history of recordings, I think it's still too early to throw the towel in as far as Andy and Ed are concerned. Certainly their not being moody "difficult" folks doesn't automatically make them any less intense about their art and craft. I agree that Not for Threes was not a mindblower, at the same time it is a very listenable record, and tracks like Headspin couldn't have come from anybody else. And their recent remixes for Tao and Reflection are gems in my book. As for Ken, I'm still trying to get into Music for Adverts; I'm not saying that's a bad thing - it's just a really difficult album for me, but I have full confidence that one day it will strike me with full force. Similar to the way a lot of Autechre's output leaves me cold the first two dozen times - and then I start "getting" it. Now on the other hand, the live tape was immediately immaculate. The point being, I don't think you have to put down one camp to praise or like the other. James Jung-Hoon Seo // Oracle Tools Fundamental Technologies Group (650) 506-3829 // jseo@us.oracle.com Endless cuts / Paid in nuts
1998-05-19 19:08sfwd /> > >It's pretty clear that Ken was and is the Master of Dogma (and I mean that > >in a go
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sfwd /
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Date:
Tue, 19 May 1998 19:08:09 +0000
Subject:
Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
permalink · <199805200208.TAA13057@sub.sonic.net>
quoted 10 lines It's pretty clear that Ken was and is the Master of Dogma (and I mean that> > >It's pretty clear that Ken was and is the Master of Dogma (and I mean that > >in a good way). > >... > > All fine and dandy, but I think you're leaning a bit too far. I liked the > Black Dog in its various styles and guises, some Ken's, some Andy's, some > Ed's, some whatever. I think Bytes illustrates very well the mix of the > threesome and their various stylistic leanings. Back then you could dig the > sometimes disparate mix of styles, just as you can now.
The way I view it is they are three different bands... the original black dog, plaid and ken black dog. love the original... diverse and wonderful... plaid, who have some great material and then the new stuff (imo - falls short of pretty much everything mentioned here... love the clear 12" and other ealier recordings, but the warp stuff just failed to impress or even entertain)... then there's the current dog... music for adverts remains one of my favorite release since i've heard it. i recall ken in an interview or in a post here where he mentioned that he felt the new material was more a retreat to an earlier black dog sound... hate to disagree, but i do... music for adverts is ken and imo blows it all away... its diverse, has the life that previous black dog music held, but its got feeling that reachs to depths that the other material only dreamed of achieving... anyways, my opinion, but my point is, i find it better to simply view them as three seperate entities...
quoted 12 lines As for Ken, I'm still trying to get into Music for Adverts; I'm not saying> As for Ken, I'm still trying to get into Music for Adverts; I'm not saying > that's a bad thing - it's just a really difficult album for me, but I have > full confidence that one day it will strike me with full force. Similar to > the > way a lot of Autechre's output leaves me cold the first two dozen times - > and > then I start "getting" it. Now on the other hand, the live tape was > immediately immaculate. > > The point being, I don't think you have to put down one camp to praise or > like > the other.
Hope it does strike you the way it does me, because its nice to get taken way everytime i let it spin =) I agree, no need to put down plaid (though i probably did above)... everything ed and andy and ed did previous to the warp releases really worked well for me and gets much play here... i simply did get down with the new stuff, but sure they could pull off that again if that was what they wanted... http://www.sonic.net/~brap/ sfwd.dyn.ml.org [on rare occasion* [V/VM][blackdog] ETC-+/////////// @ICq#12645306.......? .brap@sonic.net
1998-05-20 11:06Adam HuffmanOn Tue, 19 May 1998, sfwd / wrote: [massive deletion] > > I agree, no need to put down pla
From:
Adam Huffman
To:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 12:06:27 +0100 (BST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Ken's glass house
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.95.980520120340.25896C-100000@larynx.shef.ac.uk>
On Tue, 19 May 1998, sfwd / wrote: [massive deletion]
quoted 7 lines I agree, no need to put down plaid (though i probably did above)...> > I agree, no need to put down plaid (though i probably did above)... > everything ed and andy and ed did previous to the warp releases > really worked well for me and gets much play here... i simply did get > down with the new stuff, but sure they could pull off that again if > that was what they wanted... >
Judging by their recent live set at Schizm they certainly can still pull it off. All written the evening before and some of it astoundingly good. adam