IDM Mailing Archive

i think there needs to be a list policy where anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly or not) should be removed from the list, dragged from their homes and beaten in public. and then have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw. np. nww 'sililoquoy for lilth' : wells : : s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu :

quoted 7 lines i think there needs to be a list policy where

> i think there needs to be a list policy where > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged > from their homes and beaten in public. and then > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw. >

umm... yeah. how about people who don't appreciate other people's appreciation of diversity? i assume there's a little sarcasm there, but frankly, it's not all that funny. it just makes you look limited. limited in your scope. i don't love the beach boys, but i'll defend to the death someone else's right to like them. i think someone else said something like that once. hmm... anyway, laugh if you must, but i'm finally hearing ...endtroducing for the first time right now. figured since i was expecting preemptive strike on monday, i might as well get in the mood. nice. very. is there anyone else out there who just doesn't end up getting hold of the good stuff until it's really old? okay, not really old, but old enough. oh well. better late than never. take it easy, cheesy. alan! np: i just told you!

quoted 6 lines i think there needs to be a list policy where

> i think there needs to be a list policy where > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged > from their homes and beaten in public. and then > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw.

dig this: there's a 3cd set of the beach boys with no music. it's almost every song they've ever done, the same recordings, but they just took the music out. it sounds so unbelievably good. a kid here at the station bought it and you don't even notice 'words' so-to-speak, they're just so god damn good all you hear is the 'music' of thier voices. due to the huge amounts of reverb, thier slow songs are really trance-inducing, hypnotic. it's really worth checking out. i can find some details about it if anyone wants to know. -eric _____________________________________________________ :: eric sherman szale@doubtful.com :: :: doubtful productions www.doubtful.com ::

i got one thing to say about the beach boys: "pet sounds" On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, .szalemandre. wrote:

quoted 23 lines i think there needs to be a list policy where

> > i think there needs to be a list policy where > > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly > > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged > > from their homes and beaten in public. and then > > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while > > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw. > > > dig this: there's a 3cd set of the beach boys with no music. it's almost > every song they've ever done, the same recordings, but they just took the > music out. it sounds so unbelievably good. a kid here at the station > bought it and you don't even notice 'words' so-to-speak, they're just so god > damn good all you hear is the 'music' of thier voices. due to the huge > amounts of reverb, thier slow songs are really trance-inducing, hypnotic. > it's really worth checking out. i can find some details about it if anyone > wants to know. > > -eric > _____________________________________________________ > :: eric sherman szale@doubtful.com :: > :: doubtful productions www.doubtful.com :: > >

-- aaron.............. aaron@wired.com

Check out the piles of bootlegs from "Smile"...Brian Wilson's would-be swansong that due to his massive drug intake and madness was never completed...some of that stuff is truly scary....easily as out there as any idm...of course Brian Wilson was fucked after that and the Beach Boys went back to being cheese supreme under asshole Mike Love's guidance (apart from some of the great Wilson tracks from the "Smile" sessions - eg "Surfs Up" - that were trickled out sporadically on following LPs)....anyone too goddam stiff to check out the music would be encouraged to read "Heroes and Villains - the true story of the Beach Boys" by Stephen Gaines....crazy shit......and has anyone listened to MoM's "Der Seele von Brian Wilson" (the soul of Brian Wilson) and recognised the Beach Boys' samples??

quoted 24 lines i got one thing to say about the beach boys:

>i got one thing to say about the beach boys: > >"pet sounds" > >On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, .szalemandre. wrote: > >> > i think there needs to be a list policy where >> > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly >> > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged >> > from their homes and beaten in public. and then >> > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while >> > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw. >> >> >> dig this: there's a 3cd set of the beach boys with no music. it's almost >> every song they've ever done, the same recordings, but they just took the >> music out. it sounds so unbelievably good. a kid here at the station >> bought it and you don't even notice 'words' so-to-speak, they're just so god >> damn good all you hear is the 'music' of thier voices. due to the huge >> amounts of reverb, thier slow songs are really trance-inducing, hypnotic. >> it's really worth checking out. i can find some details about it if anyone >> wants to know. >> >> -eric

quoted 6 lines i think there needs to be a list policy where

> >> > i think there needs to be a list policy where > >> > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly > >> > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged > >> > from their homes and beaten in public. and then > >> > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while > >> > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw.

I know where youre coming from ...but.... the track 'Fall breaks and back into winter (woody woodpecker symphony)' which is on vol 1 of David Toops 'Ocean of Sound' Compilation is excellent, very strange vocal harmonies and odd 'Sun Ra' style noises....... also Heroes and Villians is a classic ;-D Steve /k/./F/

Having been a Beach Boys fan for years I have come to learn one simple truth. SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T LIKE THE BEACH BOYS. Carve it in stone right under "E=MC2" or the Ten Commandments or whatever floats your boat. No amount of arguing will change that. For me, the BBs elicit a certain emotional response. Others find them corny. You can preach "Smiley Smile" 'til the cows come home. Personally, I love it. But you have to understand that for some unknown reason, as brilliant as Brian Wilson is/was, most people will remain unconvinced. Arguing the point is pointless. Telling someone to go out and buy a fifty dollar 3-CD set by a band they don't like is simply not going to work. I know there's a certain predilection amongst BB fans to tell the world what they're missing. My own personal hysteria surrounding the music when I first discovered it bordered on that of a born-again's religious fervor. But you know something? Zealots are fucking annoying. So- perhaps those not "turned on" are just blind fools- they'll never succumb to the heartbreaking beauty of Wilson's solo piano rendition of "Surf's Up", or flip out to the psychedelic insanity of "Fire", or whatever. Who really gives a fuck? I don't need everyone else in the world to like the music I do. And one other thing- on "Good Vibrations" it was a Wave Generator operated via an early prototype Moog Ribbon Controller, and not a Theremin as is widely assumed.

On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Che wrote:

quoted 8 lines On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, seth gordon wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, seth gordon wrote: > > > And one other thing- on "Good Vibrations" it was a Wave Generator > > operated via an early prototype Moog Ribbon Controller, and not a > > Theremin as is widely assumed. > > That's not what Brian said when interviewed in the Theremin movie...what > a scary interview.

But a Theremin looks *nothing* like what Mike Love played in the video to the song. It looked like a Ribbon Controller to me - and a Ribbon Controller doesn't even come close to being similar to a Theremin. But then in the booklet in the _Good Vibrations_ boxset, Brian says "Good Vibrations had a lot of riff changes...bring the echo chamber in, do this, put the Theremin there, bring the cello up a little louder, ...", so who really knows. I could go ask Brian - he lives just a few towns away from me. :-)

quoted 2 lines I just wasn't made for this world.

> I just wasn't made for this world. > Che

cya brian (who is constantly amazed at the closedmindedness and infantile attitudes of *so* many people on the Internet........) -------------------------------------------------------- "The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare

In message <Pine.BSI.3.95.980125202058.20284B-100000@enteract.com>, Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@enteract.com> writes

quoted 2 lines brian (who is constantly amazed at the closedmindedness and infantile

>brian (who is constantly amazed at the closedmindedness and infantile >attitudes of *so* many people on the Internet........)

- Ben (still *amazed* at the number of Godlike, holier-than-thou entities on the internet) -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

chip wrote:

quoted 6 lines i think there needs to be a list policy where

> > i think there needs to be a list policy where > > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly > > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged > > from their homes and beaten in public. and then > > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while > > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw.

That's funny, I was just about to sit down to listen to the four CDboxed set of Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys. Pet Sounds is recognized by many to be a masterwork of not only pop music but also the art of arrangement and production. It was an experiment of sorts performed by Brian Wilson- songwriter for the Beach Boys. It makes use of instruments and found sounds that are not common to pop or rock music and layers them into a tapestry of pop pastiche that is melodious, harmonious and pleasing to the ear. Kind of like multi-track sampling or hard drive recordings but recorded in 1966 before there was the aid of such technology. The original album is only about forty five minutes in length and is a mono mix down. The four CD box contains the mono mix, a stereo mix and hours of recordings from the studio session that document Brian Wilson's painstaking effort and precision to use multi-layered voices to achieve exactly the sound that he desired. My point to all of this is that you should be open minded to the merit of music outside of our usual discussion. Most people who program the music that you listen to would probably be glad to hear these recordings and not only would they respect Brian Wilson's art but they would appreciate the documentation of another producers technique. I am not a fan of the Beach boys but that has nothing to do with my interest in Pet Sounds. I listen to very little rock and roll but that does not mean that I don't appreciate the historical merit of it or the cultural significance that it had. In the case of pet sounds, I respect the work that was put into the record and the eccentric methods that were used to achieve the music. I probably would not listen to or ever have noticed it if it was just recorded with the typical guitar, bass, drum, vocals arrangement of pop and rock music. But I am happy to learn from whatever sources I can find. I would not have considered it possible three years ago but I have learned from Pet Sounds in it's original form and I am sure that the dissection of the recording of the album presented in this boxed set will be even more inspirational. That does not mean that I will want to write songs that sound like the Beach Boys but I will probably feel closer to the art of drum & bass and abstract down tempo production after hearing this documentation. I know that your comment was supposed to be a simple joke. I took my response to such a length because I believe that your joke was indicative of an issue common to a lot of people on IDM. Some of you just don't know or care to know music outside of IDM. There is a universe out there that is worthwhile. I have mentioned Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, old school hip hop and electro, funk and even Miami Bass on this list several times to the response of blank stares. Where do you think the inspiration of "our" music comes from? Where do you think the samples come from? I was DJing an IDM radio show five years ago. I have been slowly chipping away at learning to produce similar (yet different) music for about three years. I fully respect IDM and all of it's siblings but I am also aware of where the music came from and I think that there are people on this list that could only benefit by getting in touch with the Roots, if you will, of "our" music.

quoted 12 lines i got one thing to say about the beach boys:

>i got one thing to say about the beach boys: > >"pet sounds" > >On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, .szalemandre. wrote: > >> > i think there needs to be a list policy where >> > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly >> > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged >> > from their homes and beaten in public. and then >> > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while >> > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw.

Here we go again, this perpetual refrain, this bizarre notion that if one is into an IDM genre of music, then it is assumed that this music is the apex of our listening! I dunno, perhaps some of us just have much wider curiousities and are hungry for all different kinds of sounds ... and different music takes us on different journeys, takes our heads off into totally different lands and it seems strange to me, that maybe some people want to limit their horizons? Pet Sounds to me is one of those perfect seminal albums, up there with Marvin Gaye's Whats Going On, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Kraftwerk, Public Enemy ... breakin new ground, music so pure and hardcore that time does not dilute its essence. and if you listen deep, what Brian Wilson was exploring therein, was waaaaay out there, way beyond just some cheesy surf tunes! Whilst I was ravin it up big stylee durin the Acid days, gettin totally into hardcore techno, checkin out Aphex from his early days, junglin it up down Rage & Speed, I was also gettin my head well and truly blown away by people like Tony Williams (Miles Davis's ol drummer), Pharoah Sanders and Terry Callier down the Jazz Cafe ... all sublime soundz, just different paths ... Aless

ab4@dircon.co.uk wrote:

quoted 50 lines i got one thing to say about the beach boys:

> >i got one thing to say about the beach boys: > > > >"pet sounds" > > > >On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, .szalemandre. wrote: > > > >> > i think there needs to be a list policy where > >> > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly > >> > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged > >> > from their homes and beaten in public. and then > >> > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while > >> > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw. > > Here we go again, this perpetual refrain, this bizarre notion that if > one > is into an IDM genre of music, then it is assumed that this music is > the > apex of our listening! I dunno, perhaps some of us just have much > wider > curiousities and are hungry for all different kinds of sounds ... and > different music takes us on different journeys, takes our heads off > into > totally different lands and it seems strange to me, that maybe some > people > want to limit their horizons? > > Pet Sounds to me is one of those perfect seminal albums, up there with > > Marvin Gaye's Whats Going On, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Kraftwerk, Public > > Enemy ... breakin new ground, music so pure and hardcore that time > does not > dilute its essence. > > and if you listen deep, what Brian Wilson was exploring therein, was > waaaaay out there, way beyond just some cheesy surf tunes! > > Whilst I was ravin it up big stylee durin the Acid days, gettin > totally > into hardcore techno, checkin out Aphex from his early days, junglin > it up > down Rage & Speed, I was also gettin my head well and truly blown away > by > people like Tony Williams (Miles Davis's ol drummer), Pharoah Sanders > and > Terry Callier down the Jazz Cafe ... all sublime soundz, just > different > paths ... > > Aless

ab4@dircon.co.uk wrote:

quoted 50 lines i got one thing to say about the beach boys:

> >i got one thing to say about the beach boys: > > > >"pet sounds" > > > >On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, .szalemandre. wrote: > > > >> > i think there needs to be a list policy where > >> > anyone who likes the beach boys (admittedly > >> > or not) should be removed from the list, dragged > >> > from their homes and beaten in public. and then > >> > have their innards torn out by rabid dogs while > >> > the rest of us sit and have a good guffaw. > > Here we go again, this perpetual refrain, this bizarre notion that if > one > is into an IDM genre of music, then it is assumed that this music is > the > apex of our listening! I dunno, perhaps some of us just have much > wider > curiousities and are hungry for all different kinds of sounds ... and > different music takes us on different journeys, takes our heads off > into > totally different lands and it seems strange to me, that maybe some > people > want to limit their horizons? > > Pet Sounds to me is one of those perfect seminal albums, up there with > > Marvin Gaye's Whats Going On, Coltrane, Miles Davis, Kraftwerk, Public > > Enemy ... breakin new ground, music so pure and hardcore that time > does not > dilute its essence. > > and if you listen deep, what Brian Wilson was exploring therein, was > waaaaay out there, way beyond just some cheesy surf tunes! > > Whilst I was ravin it up big stylee durin the Acid days, gettin > totally > into hardcore techno, checkin out Aphex from his early days, junglin > it up > down Rage & Speed, I was also gettin my head well and truly blown away > by > people like Tony Williams (Miles Davis's ol drummer), Pharoah Sanders > and > Terry Callier down the Jazz Cafe ... all sublime soundz, just > different > paths ... > > Aless

Thank you. I maintain that if you are listening to IDM for the *right* reasons, you'd appreciate all of the releases that were just mentioned in the above post. Not to disallow for the spectre of "personal preference", but even if you don't like it, you should be able to sense it's importance - ESPECIALLY (in the case of "Pet Sounds") in light of pop music history. A-historicity breeds existential ignorance, I always (well, I will from now on) say. Hey....are you the kind soul who sent me the magazine with the Billy M. discog/article? If so, I'd still like to recompense you.... jeff