IDM Mailing Archive

From: "Aran M. Parillo" <aran@hyperreal.org>

quoted 3 lines As I never traded with him, the only instance of his misdoings

>As I never traded with him, the only instance of his misdoings >I can attest to was his forwarding a ficticious email conversation >between he and another listmember.

the email was not a fiction, but a FACT - so eat humble pie MF i was the other person, i don't have any handle on gil's business exploits but as one who was at the recieving end of a public witch hunt after i had lost my home, record collection, income, business & nearly my family and couldnt send out a few lousy records i can empathize.. in my 2 1/2 years on this list Gil has been one of the handful of sane minds in an ocean of insular- childish bullshit concerned with such irrelevant peripherals such as limited editions, label worship and one-upmanship IDM is an instutional organization of ignorance IDM is now the home of the passive consumer, more concerned with the cosmetic value of the finished artifact than understanding the *true* price being payed by the artist gifted with a creative mind IDM is dead UNSUBSCRIBE my final words on IDM & to quote minor threat "at least im fucking trying..WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU DONE?" sm

Stuart sadly writes:

quoted 5 lines I was the other person, I don't have any handle on Gil's business

> I was the other person, I don't have any handle on Gil's business > exploits but as one who was at the recieving end of a public witch > hunt after I had lost my home, record collection, income, business > & nearly my family and couldn't send out a few lousy records I can > empathize..

Perhaps one shouldn't engage in record trading in the midst of personal crises?

quoted 4 lines In my 2 1/2 years on this list Gil has been one of the handful of

> In my 2 1/2 years on this list Gil has been one of the handful of > sane minds in an ocean of insular-childish bullshit concerned > with such irrelevant peripherals such as limited editions, label > worship and one-upmanship

Oh, and like Gil's rants about Luke Slater & NovaMute and his pathetic "mirror" rant before New Years' weren't "childish bullshit"? The "mirror" rant in particular was all about "label worship and one-upmanship" if you ask me ... "you pathetic IDM'ers are ignorant scum because you still talk about Autechre et al. while you ignore Mego and A-Musik etc." ... spare me ... like someone else said, if IDM'ers suddenly started buying Mego and A-Musik releases then Gil would be back in a while going "You pathetic IDM'ers are ignorant scum because you still talk about Mego and A-Musik while you ignore Plug Research and Schematic etc." or somesuch bullshit ... it's all the fucking same mate

quoted 5 lines IDM is an institutional organization of ignorance

> IDM is an institutional organization of ignorance > > IDM is now the home of the passive consumer, more concerned with > the cosmetic value of the finished artifact than understanding > the *true* price being payed [sic] by the artist gifted with a creative mind

Can you translate that into plain English please? :-) Look, I'll do some ranting myself [warning ... long ... skip now or die ...]: <rant> Anyone that's been on a world-wide mailing list for 2 1/2 years should DAMN well know by now that the list will most often resemble the Least Common Denominator of the experiences of the group. How easy is it for someone living in East Buttfuck Iowa (apologies to Kent (-: ) or South Africa (Iain? Irene?) to get ahold of this stuff in their local shops? "Use mail order!" you cry ... yeah, right. Maybe if CD's and vinyl cost a quid/US $2 a pop I'd use mail order and try out that Mego or this A-Musik ... if I could even find 'em, that is. But in case you haven't noticed, music is *fucking expensive* to buy now and if I go down my nearest Virgin MegaStore and pick up Claude Young's "Soft Thru" and Stacey Pullen's "Kosmic Messenger" comp. and Download's "III" and the "Pacific State" comp and Bjork's "Batchelorette" remix CDS and Curve's "Chinese Burn" CDS and Luke Slater's "Freek Funk" CDS and Reflection's "The Errornormous World", I *really* don't need 2 poncers prattling on about how "ignorant" I am after I've just spent nearly $200 on music (that's half a r/t plane fare from L.A. to ol' Blighty, in case you need some fucking perspective mate) that I happen to LIKE ... even if it isn't fucking on Mego or A-Musik. (Oh, and did I mention that I didn't really like the Reflection, and paid $28 for a fucking single CD? Not going to make *that* mistake ever again ... sure ... "Take a chance on a new label like Mego or A-Musik" ... haha ... ) Another reason Mego and A-Musik et al. don't get discussed - in addition to the easily-sussed "They aren't easily obtainable" - is because I suspect most of their output is 12" vinyl; sorry mate but I just can't be arsed to spend money on the worst value-for-money there is in music, the (usually) imported 12" vinyl record ... US $10.99 (and up!) for 2 or 3 tracks is just not my idea of a useful expenditure ... maybe some people think US $70 for a box set of 5 slabs of Metalheadz vinyl is worth it ... I sure don't ... People like yourself and Gil Gershman need to get out of your virtual Ivory Towers of record-dom and come live amongst the proles who don't have anywhere NEAR the access you two guys - because of your business/label, and because of Gil's reviews writing - have to this kind of music.

quoted 1 line IDM is dead

> IDM is dead

IDM (the mailing list) will be dead when the last post has been posted to it. Sorry Stuart, I'll be sad to see someone with as much knowledge and background in music history as you go, but as the saying goes ... "if you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem" ... and if your retort to that is "I have been mate, I've posted scads of reviews on worthy stuff, sinks without a trace, no one talks about it" then fair enough, welcome to a world-wide mailing list, please see above for reasons why your worthy labels/releases don't get discussed so much. And it'll *always* be that way as long as music distribution & CD/LP prices remains the way they are ... nature of the beast. (Do I really need to insert my "Why I think all music should be MP3'ized and put up on the Web" rant here? Is it really *that* hard to understand that people are naturally hesitant to blindly buy music on obscure labels that they haven't heard ahead of time? Especially when it's so costly?) </end rant> - Greg

Greg Earle wrote:

quoted 1 line fucking

> fucking

Wow, man! I've never seen so many fucks in my life! Congrats.

quoted 3 lines Another reason Mego and A-Musik et al. don't get discussed - in addition to

> Another reason Mego and A-Musik et al. don't get discussed - in addition to > the easily-sussed "They aren't easily obtainable" - is because I suspect most > of their output is 12" vinyl;

Fortunately (for those who care), you are very wrong. Both Mego and A-musik entered the digital age a long time ago (now, wouldn't it be ironic if Mego, one of *the* most 'digital' labels I know, would only release stuff on vinyl? Indeed it would.), so that's simply not a valid excuse.

quoted 3 lines sorry mate but I just can't be arsed to spend

> sorry mate but I just can't be arsed to spend > money on the worst value-for-money there is in music, the (usually) imported > 12" vinyl record ... US $10.99 (and up!) for 2 or 3 tracks is just not my idea

This is just a By The Way: I pay about $20 for every CD I order from M.DOS (M.DOS is Mego's very own distribution network that includes stuff from trente oiseaux, Soleilmoon, Sonig, A-Musik, Mantra (Pierre Henry!), and, of course, Mego), which is in fact *cheaper* than the *regular* price for regular, non-import CDs sold in Norway. Price for normal CDs are, believe it or not, approaching $30 (!!!) -- today's price is about $26-27...it's getting quite insanse! This makes me one lucky dude, because how many can say that CDs they order from abroad are *cheaper* than regular CDs sold in their own country?

quoted 4 lines (Do I really need to insert my "Why I think all music should be MP3'ized and

> (Do I really need to insert my "Why I think all music should be MP3'ized and > put up on the Web" rant here? Is it really *that* hard to understand that > people are naturally hesitant to blindly buy music on obscure labels that they > haven't heard ahead of time? Especially when it's so costly?)

And here's my main point: M.DOS (see above) has Real Audio files -- extracts or complete tracks -- for EVERY SINGLE RELEASE in their catalogue! This, of course, basically means that if you really want Mego or A-musik stuff, all you have to do is visit their web-site, install a RA-player together with the browser of your choice, and listen to everything they've got. FX Randomix? He's there. General Magic? They are there. Wabi Sabi? He's there. etc. etc. etc. M.DOS can be visited at: http://www.Austria.EU.net/frank/mego/ No excuses (well, almost).

quoted 1 line </end rant>

> </end rant>

ditto. /Oeivind/

quoted 8 lines OK, point taken. I'll fall back to my next excuse then: availability. I've

> OK, point taken. I'll fall back to my next excuse then: availability. I've > never seen a General Magic CD. Nor a Wabi Sabi. Nor FX Randomix (to quote > the examples you used below). And once in a blue moon when I get into a good > specialist's store (like DropBeat up in Oakland) I tend to get those things > that I see which I've either been looking for or which I think might be rare > or hard to come by in the future if I pass it up. In those stores, I tend to > be awash in zillions of obscure stuff that I Just Don't Know about. It's > frustrating as all Hell! I'm sure this must be true for other IDM'ers ...

Certainly it's true that the budget constraint (sorry for the nerdy terminology) faced by people, coupled with the plethora of unknown names one sees in most shops and catalogs, is intimidating and encourages the typical buyer to fall back on safe options. However, in the final analysis that's not good enough. Everywhere I look in today's splintered electronic music scene I see a blinkered herd mentality and a general lack of curiosity, with people stuck in the endless purchasing habits loop of their "scene". No one really seems to want to try anything new. Some of my favorite artists were discovered after getting excited by a review and hunting down the release in question, or hearing a track on a comp by someone I hadn't heard of before and picking up on his back catalog. I know that I wasn't alone in this. Perhaps it was just that we were more easily excited by things because the field of options was smaller, but I just don't see much evidence of that hunger, or capacity to be excited by something new, around me any more. Greg, for all its failings, I'm sure you remember how awesome it was to get a good discussion going on some new discovery on r.m.i.... be it some newly-discovered fragment of e-music history from the 70s and how it related to the music we normally discussed, or the latest Scandinavian trash-can bashing outfit.. whatever. But here it's Skam, Ae, bla bla bla ad nauseam. (And I do have an excuse for anyone who says "if you don't like what we're discussing, start a new thread yourself" - I was unsubbed from the list for most of this year.) Music has always progressed through the cross-pollination of ideas, both musical and conceptual. There's a depressing homogeneity in peoples' tastes on idm (and, in all fairness, on just about every other list I'm subbed to) and I don't think it's getting us, or the music, anywhere. There doesn't seem to be any desire to learn about the history of electronic music and how it got us where we are. I'm convinced that this lack of historical perspective is both a cause and a symptom of the musical myopia I'm bitching about. Pet peeve #2: The degree of segmentation in techno (and yes, I still, and will continue to, use the term) is laughable. It's reached the point where someone will flatly rule out the possibility of, say, ANY goa trance track even remotely appealing to them, or (another depressingly ubiquitous example) the hardcore Detroit types disowning all European techno - never mind the fact that most of it was directly inspired by Detroit or that (gasp!) one can actually *hear* it in the music! Without wishing to sound preachy, I've listened to - and, perhaps more importantly, sought out - pretty much every genre of electronic music and managed to find worthwhile content in all of them. Surely my ears aren't *that* different from everyone else's? And it's for this reason that I say... for all Gil's failings as a businessman (and I've had a couple of semi-dodgy experiences with him myself, although nothing approaching what others seem to have suffered) I think he was a positive force on the list, and I for one will miss the free-ranging eclecticism of his posts, pompous or not. Ashok

On 05-Jan-98, Ashok Divakaran wrote:

quoted 1 line final analysis that's not good enough. Everywhere I look in today's

>final analysis that's not good enough. Everywhere I look in today's

splintered

quoted 3 lines electronic music scene I see a blinkered herd mentality and a general lack

>electronic music scene I see a blinkered herd mentality and a general lack >of curiosity, with people stuck in the endless purchasing habits loop of >their "scene". No one really seems to want to try anything new.

This isn't a trait found solely in techno fans - it describes the majority of ALL music-buyers, regardless of their taste. The huge irony, and the reason I am really enjoying this new (albeit recurrent) topic, is because this blinkered view of the musical spectrum is exactly what the hard-core IDM'ers slag anyone-who-doesn't-listen-to-our-music off for. As for the "But I've got no money to experiment" argument, bollocks! Tape things off your mates, or get down the library (got a new batch in today), or trade in your old crap records for new ones, or grab MP3's off the web. Whingeing tarts. -- <---HEATsink---? np: "The Girl I Love" - Tony Bennett. Shit, that's torn it.

quoted 3 lines As for the "But I've got no money to experiment" argument, bollocks! Tape

> As for the "But I've got no money to experiment" argument, bollocks! Tape > things off your mates, or get down the library (got a new batch in today), or > trade in your old crap records for new ones, or grab MP3's off the Web.

(1) This assumes you have mates to tape things with :-) (Most of mine live 375 miles away in San Francisco these days) (2) Library? Haha. Haven't been to a Yank library lately have ya mate? (3) Trade in? I keep trying. All the record stores around here say the same thing: "What is all this obscure/experimental crap? We can't take it ... we can't sell it. We can only accept trades on stuff we think we can resell ... " and back home with me they come ... :-( (4) Have you seen the kinds of MP3's you can get off the Web these days? :-) (I haven't seen too many Mego or A-Musik or Music Aus Strom or ... MP3's)

quoted 1 line Whingeing tarts.

> Whingeing tarts.

Kissy kissy :-P - Greg P.S. Special Bonus Points to whomever can identify the sample in the Subject :-)

On 06-Jan-98, Greg Earle wrote:

quoted 3 lines As for the "But I've got no money to experiment" argument, bollocks! Tape

>> As for the "But I've got no money to experiment" argument, bollocks! Tape >> things off your mates, or get down the library (got a new batch in today), >> trade in your old crap records for new ones, or grab MP3's off the Web.

quoted 2 lines (1) This assumes you have mates to tape things with :-) (Most of mine live

>(1) This assumes you have mates to tape things with :-) (Most of mine live > 375 miles away in San Francisco these days)

And? What, there's no postal service in the states?

quoted 1 line (2) Library? Haha. Haven't been to a Yank library lately have ya mate?

>(2) Library? Haha. Haven't been to a Yank library lately have ya mate?

No CD's in your libraries? Blimey, maybe we HAVE got something on you lot!

quoted 3 lines (3) Trade in? I keep trying. All the record stores around here say the

>(3) Trade in? I keep trying. All the record stores around here say the > same thing: "What is all this obscure/experimental crap? We can't take > it ... we can't sell it."

I meant trading with other people.

quoted 2 lines (4) Have you seen the kinds of MP3's you can get off the Web these days? :-)

>(4) Have you seen the kinds of MP3's you can get off the Web these days? :-) > (I haven't seen too many Mego or A-Musik or Music Aus Strom or ... MP3's)

I just got the MASK MP3's off some page or other, and there are plenty of people on this very list trading/offering them.

quoted 1 line Whingeing tarts.

>> Whingeing tarts.

quoted 1 line Kissy kissy :-P

>Kissy kissy :-P

You're not trying hard enough :) -- <---HEATsink---? np: "Soul Fire" - Lee Perry

On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Greg Earle wrote:

quoted 2 lines P.S. Special Bonus Points to whomever can identify the sample in the Subject

> P.S. Special Bonus Points to whomever can identify the sample in the Subject > :-)

Severed Heads "I Stand On My Head" from the Goodbye Tonsils EP. kickin' it old skool in the industrial style, the other Greg

Greg Earle wrote:

quoted 4 lines make the music accessible in some universal way so as to make it

> make the music accessible in some universal way so as to make it > possible to hear as many things as possible before purchasing. > When people post reviews (... ) I get a lot of useful data out of > them from this list.

Absolutely. Well said. And thank you too for acknowledging my far- flung presence (in a separate posting) ! I should recount to you my most infuriating and frustrating head-on with local customs, beaurocracy, postal admin. etc. etc. after placing my first ever order via the web, with BentCrayon. No prob. with John C's kind and helpful service; just all the shit on our side - luxury taxes, additional US$40 worth of landing fees etc. NIGHTMARE. So you are quite right in holding me up as an example :-) I struggle for my obsession ! La lutte continue ... I * "Incomplete without surface noise" - Autechre

Far be it from me to start harping on "keeping it real" and "tha underground" BUT... The fact remains that because electronica and dance are niche markets (so far) they are for the most part separate from the larger music industry sausage machine. I'd like people to be able to make a living from their music, but believe me 'mersh record companies (most of them) are base exploiters and destroyers of talent. The other side of the coin is this: it takes a rare individual to have more than one or two really good tracks in them, and an even rarer one who can remain true to their art and grow with it, rather than listen to all the record company hacks that want to mold them into identical velveeta unit shifters.