IDM Mailing Archive

tuc> Hell, I'll do a straight swap for Analogue Bubblebath 3 tuc> vinyl. Or for either J4 or J5. You can't go wrong. At the tuc> time I received my HAB2, they were already going for 15 UK tuc> Pounds. Imagine now! I don't care about the money. I want the music ... I already have AB3 on 12", in fact I have lots of Aphex on vinyl AND cd (too scared one of them gets damaged). If I want a really good listening I play the vinyl, and at my favorite speed. I still prefer 'On' at 33 rpm ... J4 and J5 are still on my 'want list' Helen

| From: helen@syncnet.dmrt.nl (Helen Adriaens) | Date: 19 Mar 96 12:16:03 +0100 | Subject: (idm) auto hangable bulb aphex twin two | | [...] | I already have AB3 on 12", in fact I have lots of Aphex on vinyl | AND cd (too scared one of them gets damaged). If I want a really | good listening I play the vinyl, and at my favorite speed. I still | prefer 'On' at 33 rpm ... Ahh, I'm glad someone said this. I was afraid to join the speed debate since so many people are joking around, but I seriously like 'On' at 33rpm, too. I like it a lot, but even better are 'Xepha' and the reload and (m)u-ziq mixes. I didn't notice that the disk with 'Xepha' was labelled as 45rpm until I got the CD, when I found out that I also prefer 'Xepha' at 33rpm. 'd-scape' (on the same side) is pretty damn boring at 33, though, so I didn't know what was on with that. There are some very interesting sounds in 'Xepha' (originating from human voice?) that just don't stand out as much as the labelled speed. Although 'Xepha' is more laid back at 33rpm, the ominous vocal sounds give it a dark ambient flavor that I would like to hear more of. This whole idea has renewed my interest in vinyl - and reminded me of the days when I refused to even buy CDs or a CD player. Now I'm learning about DSP so I can write a program to pitch CDs up or down with my NeXT computer to simulate the 33/45 or 45/33 shift. Does anyone know if the pitchable CD players (like the dual DENON) can handle playing as low as 73% of full speed, or an interval of a fourth in pitch down?

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Brian Willoughby wrote:

quoted 4 lines Now I'm learning about DSP so I can write a program to pitch CDs up or down

> Now I'm learning about DSP so I can write a program to pitch CDs up or down > with my NeXT computer to simulate the 33/45 or 45/33 shift. Does anyone know > if the pitchable CD players (like the dual DENON) can handle playing as low as > 73% of full speed, or an interval of a fourth in pitch down?

A friend of mine has a Denon that will go down an octave or up two octaves (factory default is up one octave, but through a software bug you can trick it into doing 2!). Yet another sign of digital superiority!

quoted 3 lines This whole idea has renewed my interest in vinyl - and reminded me of the

> This whole idea has renewed my interest in vinyl - and reminded me of the > days when I refused to even buy CDs or a CD player. >

Let's see, I'm trying to remember why I would buy vinyl - muddy low end combined with rumble, lousy high end filled with pops & surface noise, lack of durability, even less durability if you play them more than once every 24 hours, it's damn hard to throw a 1200 and a dozen 12s in my backpack & carry them somewhere much less play them in my car, though I would never be able to leave vinyl in my car here in the South in the summer without serious warpage, lots of fun things to do to isolate my turntable so the record doesn't skip, more room for cover art except these white labels don't have any cover art, and a coupla bucks cheaper until I factor in the cost of a cassette to tape it so it doesn't wear out. Uh, sorry, can't think of a single reason to buy vinyl. Okay, I guess scratchin' CD players like the Pioneer CDJ-500II are a bit more expensive than 1200s, but if more people would buy them they'd be cheaper than a good turntable. Vinyl just plain sucks, unless you're one of those hopeless romantic types that thinks anything from the past is so much better than the present that you can ignore the facts and convince yourself otherwise. Now, if they'd only release those Gescom EPs on CD I could sell my turntable. ;-) Che

On Sat, 23 Mar 1996, Che wrote:

quoted 8 lines Uh, sorry, can't think of a single reason to buy vinyl. Okay, I guess

> Uh, sorry, can't think of a single reason to buy vinyl. Okay, I guess > scratchin' CD players like the Pioneer CDJ-500II are a bit more expensive > than 1200s, but if more people would buy them they'd be cheaper than a > good turntable. > > > Che >

How on earth did you get to listen to Flutter on the Anti EP by Autechre at both speeds on a CD player, or did they release both the 33 and 45 versions on the CD? Tim

On Tue, 26 Mar 1996, Tim Fothegill F. Ciencias Dpto. Biologia wrote:

quoted 3 lines How on earth did you get to listen to Flutter on the Anti EP by Autechre

> How on earth did you get to listen to Flutter on the Anti EP by Autechre > at both speeds on a CD player, or did they release both the 33 and 45 > versions on the CD?

QED - by using a CD player w/ variable pitch. I've seen CD players that will go up 2 octaves & down 1. Can your 1200s do that? As an added bonus, CD players (at least the Denon ones) tend to default to semitone increments, so you don't have to listen to things out of tune. Che

quoted 3 lines Vinyl just plain sucks, unless you're one of those hopeless romantic types

>Vinyl just plain sucks, unless you're one of those hopeless romantic types >that thinks anything from the past is so much better than the present that >you can ignore the facts and convince yourself otherwise.

Whoa... be careful here... I would suggest sticking to your otherwise very good objective, empirical analysis of cd's versus vinyl, and stay away from this whole "sucks" and personal attack idea, unless you want to get everybody pissed off. You are right though... in the empirical sense, cd's beat vinyl hands down, more frequency response, greater clarity, higher signal to noise ratio, better dynamic range, and more importantly resiliance and portability (and the ability to play them in the car, for which vinyl is slightly ill suited). But I still like vinyl just the same. When I fire up the ole turntable, it really does "feel" better to me than putting the little cd into the player... maybe cos vinyl is analogue, ou know, kinda like a picture of the sound, whereas cd's are digital, just a description of the sound, and somehow my mind can perceive this difference. Vinyl to me just feels neater, that's all. And the sound isn't really that much worse than cd, usually I don't really notice. So while you certainly are entitled to your well supported opinion here about the technological merits of the c format, please do not call me stupid ("hopelessly romantic...ignore the facts"), and such, cos I happen to dig vinyl too.

On Sat, 23 Mar 1996, Sugatis wrote:

quoted 4 lines Vinyl just plain sucks, unless you're one of those hopeless romantic types

> >Vinyl just plain sucks, unless you're one of those hopeless romantic types > >that thinks anything from the past is so much better than the present that > >you can ignore the facts and convince yourself otherwise. >

There's a lot more to buying vinyl than sound quality. These days vinyl has become an artpiece of sorts. You get cool music and a much larger canvas for the artwork which is often stunning. CD artwork just doesn't do it for me like vinyl, and the sound quality difference isn't all that great. Hoping *not* to start another vinyl vs CD thread. :-) Tony

quoted 7 lines I said:

>I said: > >> On Sat, 23 Mar 1996, Sugatis wrote: >> >> > >Vinyl etc. etc... >Whoops, Sugatis didn't say the above. I was responding to Sugatis' post >which didn't name the original author. Sorry.

Yeah! Precisely... I'd never utter such blasphemy! Thanks alot for the correction... I was worried that I'd get mailbombed here... In any case, please everyone don't get into a battle over the origional "vinyl sucks" statement that whoever that guy was said... I can see it now... grrr....