IDM Mailing Archive

On Wed, 22 Nov 1995, einexile the meek wrote:

quoted 20 lines I have had this for a week now and it really does almost nothing for

> > I have had this for a week now and it really does almost nothing for > me. If anyone has earned the benefit of the doubt from me, it is > Autechre, but I am getting pretty desperate for a reason to like this > album, or even an interesting detail to which I might focus my attention. > Is this record way over my head, or could it be that it really kind of > sucks? So little of it jumps out and grabs me in any way, so little of it > strikes me as inspired, that I am really quite driven to slag the hell > out of it right here and now (is this what I'm actually doing?) but every > fiber of my being insists: No! Autechre are *brilliant*! You can't do > that! You must be mistaken! You must just be below their level of musical > sophistication! > > Well I am below Swervedriver's level of musical sophistication, too but > that doesn't make Ejector Seat Reservation anything else but a crap album. > Autechre win my tentative vote for second biggest disappointment of 1996. > > > einexile >

I will second the motion! I thought it was too damn boring as well. I do like Amber a lot, but Tri Repete just doesn't seem to go anywhere for me. Derek 0--\___/--\___/---0 moses@teleport.com 0--\_______/--------0

Well, I do like Tri Repetae, but it hasn't made the same kind of impression on me that Amber did. I suspect that Amber was made in a period of rare inspiration that any musician would be lucky to enter. Anyway, I haven't given up on the album. I think a guided tour with Spaceman Spliff might reveal some interesting nuances.

quoted 8 lines Well I am below Swervedriver's level of musical sophistication, too but

> > Well I am below Swervedriver's level of musical sophistication, too but > that doesn't make Ejector Seat Reservation anything else but a crap album. > Autechre win my tentative vote for second biggest disappointment of 1996. > > > einexile >

Behind what?? Dave

On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, Dave Ross wrote:

quoted 3 lines Well I am below Swervedriver's level of musical sophistication, too but

> > Well I am below Swervedriver's level of musical sophistication, too but > > that doesn't make Ejector Seat Reservation anything else but a crap album. > > Autechre win my tentative vote for second biggest disappointment of 1996.

quoted 1 line Behind what??

> Behind what??

Sorry, I thought it would be clear what I meant. Behind the mentioned Swervedriver record. Swervedriver are a sort of indie-rokk band off Creation which never got the attention they deserved and now sadly no longer deserve it. For a while though I considered them one of the few remaining great rock bands. Lots and lots of nice guitar texture, melodic interplay, neat songwriting that goes all over the place. Really really intelligent stuff...but they got too intelligent to the point of intellectual or elitist. The album is almost unlistenable. For a while though they were as good as just about anyone working in any style. One might check out Mezcal Head or Raise, if one is interested. Tracks three or four on either are the shit. I figured this message was fair balance for all the Autechre traffic at the 4AD list. ;) One thing I can forgive about Tri Repetae is that *lots* of people are disappointing this year. Ultramarine. Nitzer Ebb. Low. Cocteau Twins. Verve. Richard Kirk, TWICE. Belly. From Within. Dreamfish. (I know I'll take heat for that...) At least Autechre released two ass kicking eps before this mess, and Tri does have a few nice bits. einexile Can someone fwd me a review of Woob 2 please? Thanks. :)

On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, einexile the meek wrote:

quoted 1 line On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, Dave Ross wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, Dave Ross wrote:

quoted 5 lines One thing I can forgive about Tri Repetae is that *lots* of people are

> One thing I can forgive about Tri Repetae is that *lots* of people are > disappointing this year. Ultramarine. Nitzer Ebb. Low. Cocteau Twins. > Verve. Richard Kirk, TWICE. Belly. From Within. Dreamfish. (I know I'll > take heat for that...) At least Autechre released two ass kicking eps > before this mess, and Tri does have a few nice bits.

I was one of the people saying how dissapointed I was with Tri Repetae, and I was, but after further listening It has really grown on me and I now recant my disappointment comments. I almost gave up on it, but I was determined to keep listening until I could know for sure whether it was a hasty judgement, and I now feel it was. It still isn't in the class of the 1st two albums but it *is* quite good. And, I like it better than Anvil Vapre right now. I haven't heard the new Kirk but as far as From Within 2 and Dreamfish 2 go, I'll agree and disagree. Very few albums will ever match the brilliance of From Within 1 IMO, and FW2 is no exception. It's a good album though, but if you were expecting another FW1 I could see how it might be disappointing. Dreamfish 2 wasn't quite what I expected...more minimal than I anticipated. This one took me quite a few listens before I really started to get into it, and now it's currently one of my favourites. Maybe you gave up too early on this one? I almost did on Tri Repetae.... I think these albums are very good examples of the careful and repeated listening that these types of music require before the listener can grasp the work. There isn't too much instant gratification with these albums, but if you give them time you'll probably be rewarded. Tony

On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, Julius anthony Martinez wrote:

quoted 5 lines I haven't heard the new Kirk but as far as From Within 2 and Dreamfish 2 go,

> I haven't heard the new Kirk but as far as From Within 2 and Dreamfish 2 go, > I'll agree and disagree. Very few albums will ever match the brilliance > of From Within 1 IMO, and FW2 is no exception. It's a good album though, > but if you were expecting another FW1 I could see how it might be > disappointing.

I don't think anyone realistically expected "another" FW1. I didn't expect the second half of FW1 to be more of the first half, and it wasn't. What bugs me about FW2 is that it's not musically or emotionally original. Most of what it has to offer has already been done.

quoted 4 lines Dreamfish 2 wasn't quite what I expected...more minimal than

> Dreamfish 2 wasn't quite what I expected...more minimal than > I anticipated. This one took me quite a few listens before I really > started to get into it, and now it's currently one of my favourites. Maybe > you gave up too early on this one? I almost did on Tri Repetae....

I did sort of give up early on Dreamfish 2. I bought it and liked it as I immediately like any new Fax release by default. I do however expect it to grab me after a few listens and it did not. I played it now and then just for the hell out of until one day I realized it was really annoying me, so I shut it off. Fair enough; I'll give it another try now. I have, however, tortured myself with about twelve hours of Tri Repetae and the more I listen to it, the more it strikes me a thrown together, semi-effortless and passionless stock material. Half of the album is based on Anvil Vapre and none of it is as good. After a certain point you are no longer keeping an open mind to be fair but rather beating your taste into submission.

quoted 4 lines I think these albums are very good examples of the careful and repeated

> I think these albums are very good examples of the careful and repeated > listening that these types of music require before the listener can grasp > the work. There isn't too much instant gratification with these albums, > but if you give them time you'll probably be rewarded.

I do gain instant gratification from most of what I end up liking. It's not often that I will miss something initially only to catch on after repeated listens. Modula Green, Solitaire, AC1, and Amber are all good examples of records I liked first off and later, with familiarity, grew attached to and loved. I do recognize that now and then an album will bore you so that you lose interest and only upon further examination do you discover the record's redeeming qualities. Right now I see little in Dreamfish 2 or FW2 that redeems their repetitiveness, lack of interesting melody or chord progression or rhythm or really satisfying ambience, but it baffles me that these albums can have turned out so unengaging, so after Dreamfish 2 is over I shall listen to From Within 2 again and then maybe Tri Repetae, maybe kick myself in the stomach a little, shove bamboo up under my fingernails, whatever it takes. ;) e

On Sat, 25 Nov 1995, einexile the meek wrote:

quoted 9 lines On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, Julius anthony Martinez wrote:

> > On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, Julius anthony Martinez wrote: > > > but if you were expecting another FW1 I could see how it might be > > disappointing. > > I don't think anyone realistically expected "another" FW1. I didn't > expect the second half of FW1 to be more of the first half, and it > wasn't.

I guess that came out wrong. I meant people shouldn't expect FW2 to be *as good* as FW1, which is one of those albums that is pretty impossible to follow-up.

quoted 2 lines What bugs me about FW2 is that it's not musically or emotionally >

> What bugs me about FW2 is that it's not musically or emotionally > >original. Most of what it has to offer has already been done. > > >

I respect your opinion on it, but isn't that true of most music? There is very little that has never been done before somewhere in terms of style or approach. An example I haven't seen mentioned much is that a good portion of the early Aphex material (the noisy stuff) was a derivation of the fairly obscure early 80's industrial group "Esplendor Geometrico." Many who had never heard EG thought "Wow. this is something wild and new" when it really wasn't. Another example is a lot of the Autechre material. Quite a bit of what they are doing has been done before too...they add their own twist to it but a lot of their output has not been that original or groundbreaking especially if you grew up listening to all of the obscure (and not always so obscure) early-mid 80's noise/experimental artists. It's still great stuff though, even if some elements of their music have been done before.

quoted 3 lines have, however, tortured myself with about twelve hours of Tri Repetae >

>have, however, tortured myself with about twelve hours of Tri Repetae > >and the more I listen to it, the more it strikes me a thrown together, > >semi-effortless and passionless stock material.

That's what I was thinking a few days ago too. Then I put it on as backround music (when in the past I had been doing more active listening) and things just started working. Maybe you need to let your subconcious get a hold of it. :-)

quoted 1 line Half of the album is >

> Half of the album is >

based on Anvil Vapre and none of it is as good. Well, I'm going to give Anvil Vapre another few chances myself. I played thata few times didn't really get into it. To be fair I've spent more time with the Tri...album. I need more listening time with Anvil....

quoted 4 lines Right now I see little in > Dreamfish 2 or FW2 that

> Right now I see little in > Dreamfish 2 or FW2 that > redeems their repetitiveness, lack of interesting > melody or chord > progression or rhythm or really satisfying ambience, but > it baffles me > that these albums can have turned out so unengaging,

I guess what's interesting about music in part is that people with similar tastes can have two completely different reactions to something. Also what we each find engaging is also affected be what sort of mood we're in. I have some albums I couldn't listen to enough, and then a few weeks (or months) later can't get into them at all. Then later I enjoy them again. It's more than just a case of wearing the music out, it's what I was receptive to hearing as well. Also, I've found a lot (but not all) of Fax albums take more time to absorb than a lot of other things. Maybe that's why (in part) so many people profess disdain for Fax. Also, not implying that I'm giving new perspectives you aren't aware of, just making observations. (E-mail is sometimes a difficult means to communicate effectively.) > so after Dreamfish

quoted 3 lines is over I shall listen to From Within 2 again and then > maybe Tri

> is over I shall listen to From Within 2 again and then > maybe Tri > Repetae, maybe kick myself in the stomach a little, shove > bamboo up > under my fingernails, whatever it takes. ;)

:-) Regards, Tony

On Sat, 25 Nov 1995, Julius anthony Martinez wrote:

quoted 3 lines have, however, tortured myself with about twelve hours of Tri Repetae >

> >have, however, tortured myself with about twelve hours of Tri Repetae > > >and the more I listen to it, the more it strikes me a thrown together, > > >semi-effortless and passionless stock material.

I'm not going to argue with you because I respect your opinions, in just surprises me that we can differ so greatly. I dont think Tri Repetae had been on for more than 5 mins before I was in love..

quoted 2 lines Half of the album is >

> > Half of the album is > > based on Anvil Vapre and none of it is as good.

An thats where we differ again because I thought Anvil Vapre was very forgetable with the exception of maybe one track. Watching these opinions travelling back and forth this weekend I did a little autechre-a-thon and listeneed to Incunabula, Amber, Anti, Garbage, Anvil Vapre, and Tri Repetae. What I discovered is that Incunablua was a lot better than I'd remembered, an equal to Tri Repetae. Amber too was better than I remembered but overall still doesn't rank very high in my book. The EP's tended to be hit and miss with a mixture of good and not-so-good tracks, Anti being one of the more memorable but that has something to do with the novelty and context of the record I think.

quoted 7 lines I guess what's interesting about music in part is that people with

> I guess what's interesting about music in part is that people with > similar tastes can have two completely different reactions to something. > Also what we each find engaging is also affected be what sort of > mood we're in. I have some albums I couldn't listen to enough, and then > a few weeks (or months) later can't get into them at all. Then later I > enjoy them again. It's more than just a case of wearing the music out, > it's what I was receptive to hearing as well.

Right, the affect of this can be quite dramatic. It seems to me the situation under which you hear something for the first time greatly affects how you hear it on later listenings. onnow: Mike Dred & Peter Green : Code D :: Alan M. Parry :: fluid@hyperreal.com :: <finger me for PGP key> :: http://hyperreal.com/~fluid

On Sat, 25 Nov 1995, Alan M. Parry wrote:

quoted 3 lines On Sat, 25 Nov 1995, Julius anthony Martinez (martinej@rohan.sdsu.edu)

> > On Sat, 25 Nov 1995, Julius anthony Martinez (martinej@rohan.sdsu.edu) > wrote:

quoted 3 lines have, however, tortured myself with about twelve hours of Tri Repetae >

> > >have, however, tortured myself with about twelve hours of Tri Repetae > > > >and the more I listen to it, the more it strikes me a thrown together, > > > >semi-effortless and passionless stock material.

Just to clarify, it was einexile not martinej@rohan.sdsu.edu who said the above. Tony

Julius Caesar Salad wrote:

quoted 10 lines What bugs me about FW2 is that it's not musically or emotionally

>> What bugs me about FW2 is that it's not musically or emotionally >> original. Most of what it has to offer has already been done. > > I respect your opinion on it, but isn't that true of most music? There > is very little that has never been done before somewhere in terms of > style or approach. An example I haven't seen mentioned much is that a > good portion of the early Aphex material (the noisy stuff) was a > derivation of the fairly obscure early 80's industrial group "Esplendor > Geometrico." Many who had never heard EG thought "Wow. this is something > wild and new" when it really wasn't.

I'd be willing to bet that Richard never heard an Esplendor Geometrico tape in his life. I won't pretend to speak for all the members of Former Industrialists With A Clue[tm] haunting this list, but I have several EG tapes and I don't know what you're on about :-) Other than the fact that the early Aphex stuff is "Industrial sounding", I don't think it bears resemblance to Industrial forebears at all. That's exactly why I liked it so much - it was taking sonic elements that I greatly liked and pushed them into new frontiers/corners of the sonic palette. (I think it's more interesting to note how the old-timer Industrialists are now showing up on comps that are landing in the "Ambient"/"Trance" comps at Aron's in Hollywood. And yes, they have a separate Industrial/Experimental section, so it's not like they're wontonly misplaced.) - Greg

I wrote:

quoted 4 lines (I think it's more interesting to note how the old-timer Industrialists are

> (I think it's more interesting to note how the old-timer Industrialists are > now showing up on comps that are landing in the "Ambient"/"Trance" comps at > Aron's in Hollywood. And yes, they have a separate Industrial/Experimental > section, so it's not like they're wontonly misplaced.)

^^^^^^^^ s/wontonly/wantonly (Guess I must have been thinking of Chinese food or something (-: )

On Sat, 25 Nov 1995, Greg Duchess of Earle wrote:

quoted 10 lines Julius Caesar Salad wrote:

> Julius Caesar Salad wrote: > > > style or approach. An example I haven't seen mentioned much is that a > > good portion of the early Aphex material (the noisy stuff) was a > > derivation of the fairly obscure early 80's industrial group "Esplendor > > Geometrico." Many who had never heard EG thought "Wow. this is something > > wild and new" when it really wasn't. > > I'd be willing to bet that Richard never heard an Esplendor Geometrico tape > in his life.

He may not have ever heard EG (who have released LP's and CD's too by the way). I said "derivation" to get a reaction. :) At the same time I wouldn't completely rule it out either (that he has heard EG). If he has he might not admit it. The fact is some of his material (a good example being the Mescalinium United remix 12") sounds almost exactly like Esplendor Geomtrico. There are other examples of some EG type sounds Richard uses but I'm too lazy to pull out the records a find them right now. As I remember the drum programming on one of the Xylem Tube ep tracks is *very* EG-sounding too. A good example some Aphex-sounding stuff from Esplendor Geometrico being the "Noising in the Rain I-V" (5 tracks) that they contributed to the Bruitiste 2LP compilation on RRRecords label. This has some very Aphex-sounding crunching rhythms and was pre-Aphex. The first EG LP (untitled) released in 1982 also has some elements of noise/sound later popularized by Richard in some of his work. However, I'm not saying he *copied* EG, just that he's using elements of sound they used as far back as 10 years ago.

quoted 3 lines I won't pretend to speak for all the members of Former Industrialists With A

> I won't pretend to speak for all the members of Former Industrialists With A > Clue[tm] haunting this list, but I have several EG tapes and I don't know > what you're on about :-)

I don't have any of the EG tapes myself. I'm referring primarily to the EG contribution to "Bruitiste" as well as material from their first LP. Their tape material may sound nothing like anything Richard has ever done for all I know.

quoted 2 lines Other than the fact that the early Aphex stuff is "Industrial sounding", I

> Other than the fact that the early Aphex stuff is "Industrial sounding", I > don't think it bears resemblance to Industrial forebears at all.

Hmmm. Well, what I was referring to was the *sound*! :) If you ever get the chance listen to Bruitiste and listen to the Mescalinium United Remixes and tell me what you think. That's

quoted 2 lines exactly why I liked it so much - it was taking sonic elements that I greatly

> exactly why I liked it so much - it was taking sonic elements that I greatly > liked and pushed them into new frontiers/corners of the sonic palette.

I'm not saying he hasn't done this. I'm a pretty big fan, in fact I listen to his work much more than I listen to EG. My main point in all this is that not all of his music is as "original" or unique as many people may think.

quoted 4 lines (I think it's more interesting to note how the old-timer Industrialists are

> (I think it's more interesting to note how the old-timer Industrialists are > now showing up on comps that are landing in the "Ambient"/"Trance" comps > at Aron's in Hollywood. And yes, they have a separate Industrial/Experimental > section, so it's not like they're wontonly misplaced.)

Yes, but this isn't an " 'industrial' vs. 'ambient/trance' which is better?' " discussion at all which is the feeling I get from your comments. I think it's just as interesting that "industrial" (for lack of a better word) music has influenced "underground dance music." There's no doubt about that. It can be heard very clearly from Aphex Twin to Autechre to Locust. Regards, Tony

quoted 3 lines I will second the motion! I thought it was too damn boring as well. I

>I will second the motion! I thought it was too damn boring as well. I >do like Amber a lot, but Tri Repete just doesn't seem to go anywhere for me. >

Really? It's more boring than Amber? I thought Amber was pretty bad. (this is not flamebait, it's my honest opinion; I know I'm in the extreme minority here on this). I was hoping for a return to the style of Incunabula or the basscadet mixes. Bummer. -H-

quoted 6 lines Really? It's more boring than Amber? I thought Amber was pretty bad.

> Really? It's more boring than Amber? I thought Amber was pretty bad. > (this is not flamebait, it's my honest opinion; I know I'm in the extreme > minority here on this). > > I was hoping for a return to the style of Incunabula or the basscadet > mixes. Bummer.

Well, now, in terms of Incunabula, I'd have to say Tri-Repetae sounds much more like that than Amber. It's still lacking in much change in melody, but while listening to it at work, there were quite a few times where I stopped to listen a bit more closely, when something perked my interest in the music. Mostly those nice analogue sweeps and tweaks. :-) As for paying an import price for it, I'd suggest waiting it out. I splurged, and now I see (hear? :) I could have waited for a few months on the domestic. If I had to compare it to anything, I'd describe it as being hard AFX, in that it's grainy. Not all the time, but there are significant percussive perks throughout what I've heard so far (up to track 7). Just my $.02. -- guyjr@ulc49.residence.gatech.edu a.k.a., Guy Elden Jr.