IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 2 lines Howdy! I was just wondering what albums you folks consider vital to an IDM

> Howdy! I was just wondering what albums you folks consider vital to an IDM > collection?

there isn't really anything vital in idm, it's mostly whatever you find that tickles your fancy. most of the 'classic' stuff that's talked about on this list doesn't do much for me. the most interesting music usually ends up being the stuff that gets talked about the least (but, yes, that _may_ just be me). autechre's been copied so relentlessly they're barely interesting anymore (especially since they've taken that 'chiastic' slide down the path of 'incomprehensibility as communication'). the only warp person who's yet to be copied properly is aphex twin circa 'rdj album' (bogdan hasn't even come close) but he seems to have decided to take a long break (understandably) & everyone has inexplicably lost interest in drill n bass (perhaps after it was deemed too playful by members of this list? i hear idm-l has _some_ influence on the music that gets released nowadays, you know... it's the easiest way to know your target market... & to reduce it to a bunch of tonedeaf collectors.) what else is there? oh, there's plenty of minimal techno, but very few gems. & of course, for most of it, 'minimal' is to be understood as 'make the track as unchallenging as possible' rather than the more accurate 'exploit the possibilities with a minimum of means'. if there's a minimal album i could live without, i've yet to hear of it: though, there are interesting artists to look for (but don't ask me who as this genre is not really my bag most of the time). of course why overlook the recent flurry of 'melodic idm' whose idea of melody is a rehash of the dreaded eighties (a sterile period in melodic terms if there's one.) they're fun for a while & easily disposable. of course many of them use either old electro beats (belch) or watered down autechronica & that's usually the best you can get. you won't want to have anything to do with those in a year, so i wouldn't consider those vital. what's left? very little. the few interesting producers usually have little way of promoting their music, little encouragement, & rarely end up producing truly VITAL albums. for most of these guys, a slightly personalized rehash of what's there already is the best they can come up with. very little sense of purpose or whatever, but that's partly because of the scene they come from. but allow me to suggest the following paths, recently released albums which manage to carve a sound of their own out of the always eroding 'idm parameters' & which could be considered 'vital': ~ hrvatski 'oiseaux 96-98' (reckank...) ~ low res 'approximate love boat' (plug research) ~ kit clayton (all recent stuff) ~ lithops (most of it) the bottom line being that idm is an extremely disposable genre. it doesn't mean it's bad or useless. just that you'll find yourself bored with it eventually. especially if it keeps going the way it does.

quoted 4 lines I got Ischemic Folks last week after the recommendations of several on this

> I got Ischemic Folks last week after the recommendations of several on this > list and I must say that nearly all of it (especially R. Devine) sounds > quite a bit like Autechre (circa Chiastic Slide)... I was rather > disappointed by its lack of freshness. Anyone else think this?

ischemic folks = intrinsic variations on the sounds uncovered on chiastic slide. the interest was in the fact that nobody really ever focused on those sounds themselves, but rather in how to integrate them in the (usually) idiotic melody they just came up with to justify 'listenability'. that said, 'ischemic folks' is musically rather bleak, but its rhythmicality can be quite fun to listen to, in a norman mclaren kind of way (though mclaren did it better in the 1950s by scratching pieces of film... what can you do.) have i been bitter & annoying enough by now? i hope so, because i hate to be so. please direct flames elsewhere, intelligent rebukes are welcome. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 18 Jan 00, david turgeon wrote re: Re: (idm) Necessary IDM albums /Tho:

quoted 3 lines if there's a minimal album i could live without, i've yet to hear

> if there's a minimal album i could live without, i've yet to hear > of it: though, there are interesting artists to look for (but don't > ask me who as this genre is not really my bag most of the time).

(Do you mean a minimal album you COULD NOT live without?) In one word (or two) : Asteroid by Emmanuel Top (NovaMute). Sheer mindfuck bliss. I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines the bottom line being that idm is an extremely disposable genre. it

>the bottom line being that idm is an extremely disposable genre. it >doesn't mean it's bad or useless. just that you'll find yourself bored >with it eventually. especially if it keeps going the way it does.

interesting. i think the same goes for just about everything, really. i was heavily into drum and bass, with an unhealthy $50-100 /week record buying habit. this spring i was laid off, and i was forced to stop buying. it was very hard for a couple of months, and then something weird happened: i took stock of all the music i'd been buying since '96, and i realized that a good percentage of it was crap. it's sad that it took a financial situation to me to get to this point. it was like the conversion of Paul. now, this isn't to say that i now hate drum and bass. far from it. i've just gained some much-needed perspective on the entire genre. on the positive side, it REALLY led me to understand which artists had stood the test of time (klute, tech itch, alaska/paradox, myer/hexer. . .) and who i can't stand to hear any longer (bad company, rush/opt, practically anything on hardware. . .) now i'm one of those guys that i used to HATE back in '96: "Man, drum and bass is just lame now, dude. All these tracks sound the same." irritating, eh? anyhow, my point is this: record buying, especially within a single genre, can certainly lead to a kind of myopia. for myself, i've learned that my musical growth was kind of stunted when i limited myself to just one flavor of music. i began to think that the world revolved around drum and bass, the most progressive dance music ever. actually, i believe that this is essentially what's happened to drum and bass in the last couple of years, as people have taken the (then) revolutionary sounds of the mighty optical to a truly yawn-inducing conclusion. i could go as far as relating this to other cults of personality in the IDM world like squarepusher or Burger/Koln, but that's a different and much more tiresome discussion. bottom line: PLEASE don't JUST listen to fill-in-your-favorite-genre-here. i'm trying not to sound like some self-appointed wise old man, but i've done it and it's lame. -jeff p.s. to the original poster: yeah, it's always this overblown in here :) -------------- 1642 try 621 -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I totally agree with the comment on too much IDM leading to a myopic view of music. I had a conversation with somebody (un-named) on the list who said that he listened exclusively to IDM. For some reason I was very surprised; I mean, there's SO MUCH other good stuff out there, I think if you spend $ just on IDM each week you're cheating yourself. This isn't a hack on IDM by any means, if you buy too much music of one genre to really digest or keep quality control over, it becomes disposable. (a truely unfortunate situation for your mind and wallet) Personally, although I keep up with labels which release "melodic" IDM, for the most part I'm becoming more and more interested in minimalist work.. less song-structured electronic and non-electronic compositions. And there's a lot out there which fits this description, because it's relatively easy to create. Ultimately IDM is such a fuzzy genre that it lends itself well to intermingling with other genres. This isn't a bad thing. Also, RE: chiastic slide.. I think Multiple Santa said that he talked to some of the Schematic folks and the album was delayed *4* years from creation to release (PREceeding Chiastic Slide!). It does sound a little dated, but that's its charm. I just like the roughness and lack of melody, the Devine songs are, well, great. (even if he's become kinda formulaic recently in live performances, as I hear) Andrew -| Andrew Schrock | aschrock@cs.brandeis.edu |- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Andrew Schrock wrote:

quoted 8 lines I totally agree with the comment on too much IDM leading to a myopic view

> I totally agree with the comment on too much IDM leading to a myopic view > of music. I had a conversation with somebody (un-named) on the list who > said that he listened exclusively to IDM. For some reason I was very > surprised; I mean, there's SO MUCH other good stuff out there, I think if > you spend $ just on IDM each week you're cheating yourself. This isn't a > hack on IDM by any means, if you buy too much music of one genre to > really digest or keep quality control over, it becomes disposable. (a > truely unfortunate situation for your mind and wallet)

You'll find the same thing in most any subgenre. Some people choose music like they choose a tribe or religion. Then again, I think that one should choose one's religion just as one chooses music; by picking the cherries out of all the different cakes out there. -- JohnT/CountV "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section; http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines there isn't really anything vital in idm, it's

> there isn't really anything vital in idm, it's > mostly whatever you find > that tickles your fancy. most of the 'classic' > stuff that's talked > about on this list doesn't do much for me.

I would probably say that I love most of the classic stuff, and care very little for the 'CDR label thing and the Autechre clones.

quoted 4 lines the most interesting music

> the most interesting music > usually ends up being the stuff that gets talked > about the least (but, > yes, that _may_ just be me).

I agree. Most of the discussion is either covering past works that I care not to read about anymore, and stuff I don't care about now. There are some posts that are interesting from time to time.

quoted 5 lines autechre's been copied so relentlessly they're

> autechre's been copied so relentlessly they're > barely interesting > anymore (especially since they've taken that > 'chiastic' slide down the > path of 'incomprehensibility as communication').

After buying a few Autechre-ish artists I quit buying the copycats. I didn't want second rate immitators to ruin the sound for me, which it almost had. I am still looking forward to future work from them.

quoted 5 lines the only warp person

> the only warp person > who's yet to be copied properly is aphex twin circa > 'rdj album' (bogdan > hasn't even come close) but he seems to have decided > to take a long break (understandably)

There have been alot of RDJ copycats. The Marco Passarani lp on Generator is so Aphex Twin influenced. I know it's not "circa RDJ", but i wasn't focusing on that time period. I think RDJ needs to take these breaks because he is so full of shite most of the time. He was spouting off like he sleeps 2-3 hours a night and could release 100 lps a year. Yeah, well his output hasn't been that impressive and the amount of releases are pretty low. Not that I care anymore, because his quality control is way low these days. Alot of his older material is still very good!

quoted 3 lines & everyone has inexplicably lost interest in

> & everyone has inexplicably lost interest in > drill n bass (perhaps after it was deemed too > playful by members of this list?

Was that the reason "too playful"? I just thought it got boring. "Playfulness" seems to be what alot of people on this lists go for. I don't know how many times someone has told me they bought something just because it was fun and cute.

quoted 2 lines what else is there? oh, there's plenty of minimal

> what else is there? oh, there's plenty of minimal > techno, but very few gems.

There are many gems from time to time, you just have to dig through alot of stuff.

quoted 6 lines & of course, for most of it, 'minimal' is to

> & of course, for most of it, 'minimal' is to > be understood as > 'make the track as unchallenging as possible' rather > than the more > accurate 'exploit the possibilities with a minimum > of means'.

Sure some of it is indeed alot like that. But there are some releases that have a good groove or hook to it. I have found alot of good minimal techno releases over the years. Alot of minimal techno releases are more dj tools, then tracks to sit at home and listen to. Alot of those songs are great when layered with other tracks. Of course, I am talking more minimal techno, not minimalistic pieces.

quoted 13 lines of course why overlook the recent flurry of 'melodic

> of course why overlook the recent flurry of 'melodic > idm' whose idea of > melody is a rehash of the dreaded eighties (a > sterile period in melodic > terms if there's one.) they're fun for a while & > easily disposable. of > course many of them use either old electro beats > (belch) or watered down > autechronica & that's usually the best you can get. > you won't want to > have anything to do with those in a year, so i > wouldn't consider those > vital.

Melodic idm like old Black Dog, Carl Craig, Kirk Degiorgio, Reload, etc is part of the good "classic" idm. This stuff is great IMHO. "Rehash of the dreaded eighties"...this kind of stuff I hate. "Space Invaders are Smoking Grass" I think was pretty good, but most everything else has done very little. I love Kraftwerk, but 15 years after I started listening to them I don't want to buy stuff that still sounds like that. It's not innovative, nor interesting anymore.

quoted 1 line what's left? very little.

> what's left? very little.

There's tech-house and drum n bass, both of which have had some very good releases...especially drum n bass. There was alot of quality trip hop releases in the past for people to explore. Ninja Tune/Mo Wax/Pork... The amount of releases for "trip hop" seems to have slowed down quite a bit. Cinematic Orchestra is very GOOD!

quoted 6 lines the bottom line being that idm is an extremely

> the bottom line being that idm is an extremely > disposable genre. it > doesn't mean it's bad or useless. just that you'll > find yourself bored > with it eventually. especially if it keeps going > the way it does.

I wouldn't say it's extremely disposable...but when alot of people jump on a bandwagon to copy an artist...it certainly cheapens the sound. I personally never buy strictly idm I have always bought a little of everything. So I don't get burned out on things as easily. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 19/01/00 3:01:27 aschrock@cs.brandeis.edu writes:

quoted 7 lines Also, RE: chiastic slide.. I think Multiple Santa said that he talked to

> Also, RE: chiastic slide.. I think Multiple Santa said that he talked to > some of the Schematic folks and the album was delayed *4* years from > creation to release (PREceeding Chiastic Slide!). It does sound a little > dated, but that's its charm. I just like the roughness and lack of > melody, the Devine songs are, well, great. (even if he's become kinda > formulaic recently in live performances, as I hear) >

There has been a lot of cross-conferences between the Schematic crew and the Autechre camp and the sound which both have personalized reflect a kind of intertwined sibling relationship. This has also fruitfully led to a class remix by Autechre of Phoenicia's Odd Jobs, one of the better releases from Schematic. Aside from the fringe aspect of idm reflected by a common fascination, controversy or confusion with this genre of music (which genre isn't) - there are a countless number of releases that are just under-appreciated because they are often aurally misunderstood. Its easy to just denounce a particular artist because their work might sound like another's just on surface listening. However, I believe it is the subtle differences that make a release unique and Ischemic Folks does just that. Those on this list that just dismiss it are entitled to their opinion, but the music itself will probe deep into their subconscious and subsequent effect may reveal at a later stage. We *cannot* forget the contributions of Likemind, B12, Applied Rhythmic Technology, Reload, Artificial Intelligence/ Warp, Basic Channel/Chain Reaction, Planet E, Eevolute, Metamorphic, etc. Within these labels one should find some of the most *essential* creative electronic music. And we *should not* forget the current effect of Schematic, Skam, Fatcat, DIN, Mille Plateaux, Worm Interface etc. Fact: Ischemic Folks is one of the high pollers on the IDM '99 Poll I am conducting. Stay tuned for results - released Feb 1st 2000. Polling is still open until the end of January, so keep those lists coming in. A_Zed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines the bottom line being that idm is an extremely disposable genre. it

>the bottom line being that idm is an extremely disposable genre. it >doesn't mean it's bad or useless. just that you'll find yourself bored >with it eventually. especially if it keeps going the way it does.

IDM's not a genre. It's a mailing list. At least that's what the IDM list homepage said when I joined a few years back. A lot of the music on this list is hard to classify, but I daresay most of it fits under the umbrella of techno and hip hop. The reason we talk about some techno on this list and ignore, say Moby and Prodigy, is because those artists produce music that truly is "disposable" (because it's formulaic). Complexity and melody (like in Autechre's music) have staying power, even if copied, at least in my book. Flame away :-) Jacob -- Gridface http://www.cnsp.com/jacob/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 10 lines autechre's been copied so relentlessly they're barely interesting

> autechre's been copied so relentlessly they're barely interesting > anymore (especially since they've taken that 'chiastic' slide down the > path of 'incomprehensibility as communication'). the only warp person > who's yet to be copied properly is aphex twin circa 'rdj album' (bogdan > hasn't even come close) but he seems to have decided to take a long > break (understandably) & everyone has inexplicably lost interest in > drill n bass (perhaps after it was deemed too playful by members of this > list? i hear idm-l has _some_ influence on the music that gets released > nowadays, you know... it's the easiest way to know your target > market... & to reduce it to a bunch of tonedeaf collectors.)

I'm sick of people who constantly dismiss anything with glitchy beats as an Autechre ripoff. Of course, there is a huge glut of music put together with minimal effort and a little inspiration. The Schematic label is particulary suspect in this aspect. Autechre are the original innovators though, and they always remain fresh and "right" for me. Listening to Ischemic Strokes and then Chiastic Slide, Ischemic seems so thin. Its missing something that Autechre always has.

quoted 7 lines what else is there? oh, there's plenty of minimal techno, but very few

> what else is there? oh, there's plenty of minimal techno, but very few > gems. & of course, for most of it, 'minimal' is to be understood as > 'make the track as unchallenging as possible' rather than the more > accurate 'exploit the possibilities with a minimum of means'. if > there's a minimal album i could live without, i've yet to hear of it: > though, there are interesting artists to look for (but don't ask me who > as this genre is not really my bag most of the time).

Minimal for me always meant minimal effort. Come on, its difficult to listen to. Don't you feel cool becuase you like it?

quoted 6 lines what's left? very little. the few interesting producers usually have

> what's left? very little. the few interesting producers usually have > little way of promoting their music, little encouragement, & rarely end > up producing truly VITAL albums. for most of these guys, a slightly > personalized rehash of what's there already is the best they can come up > with. very little sense of purpose or whatever, but that's partly > because of the scene they come from.

Too true. When I look at all the stuff I bought in '99, the stuff that really stands out as worth my money is a very select crop of IDM stuff and a lot of non-IDM stuff. Granted, I won't buy pop music, but there is music beyond IDM, and a lot of it is produced with more depth, musical talent (don't get me started on the atonality and boringness of a large amount of the IDM out there) and emotion than any of the dreck discussed on this list. To reiterate, IDM is fun and enjoyable, and is certainly mind opening. Just don't get caught in the "this is difficult to listen to, must be good" trap. Its difficult to sort through the noise. There is a lot of junk out there. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines Minimal for me always meant minimal effort. Come on, its difficult to listen

> Minimal for me always meant minimal effort. Come on, its difficult to listen > to. Don't you feel cool becuase you like it?

hmm? minimal is difficult to listen to? god, i wonder what's EASY. i usually listen to minimal techno when i want to have music i don't have to think about. it's my alternative to silence. i wouldn't call that difficult music. as for feeling cool, well... if you LIKE it, i don't see the big deal. do you feel cool because you worship autechre? a lot of their material could be thrown in the 'difficult listening' bin, you know. oh, & i'm pretty sure richard devine puts a lot of effort in each of his tracks. in the end, you may not understand his point, but that's at least as much your problem as it is his. maybe you should begin to understand that music is not always enjoyed the same way, & that there is a large gamut of possible appreciations ranging from the senseless addiction to trash pop to a technical study of the elements in electroacoustic music. you don't watch an old orchard beach postcard the same way you appreciate a miro painting, do you?

quoted 3 lines To reiterate, IDM is fun and enjoyable, and is certainly mind opening. Just

> To reiterate, IDM is fun and enjoyable, and is certainly mind opening. Just > don't get caught in the "this is difficult to listen to, must be good" trap. > Its difficult to sort through the noise. There is a lot of junk out there.

this is the funniest overgeneralization someone can make about 'difficult music': that people listen to it merely because they feel it's going to give them some social status. if that is so, well, EVERY kind of music is going to influence your social perception anyway, & difficult music (let me toss in electroacoustics, noise, free jazz, glitchies & other weird stuffs which i happen to love dearly), by being so demanding, does not allow one to take it too lightly, so that problem is much more likely to happen with 'easy listenable' genres such as house, drum n bass, name it. i've never encountered a single person who buys stacks of weird records just because they think it'll make them cool. & if they do, it's their problem, not the music's. what usually happens is that someone will buy something they know they won't understand right away, in a genuine wish to broaden their musical knowledge. once again a marginal problem gets the spotlight & the music that it's associated with gets mistaken as the cause of the problem. one more: difficulty in music is EXACTLY what sprouted that metagenre still called 'idm'. if you dismiss it, you're being contradictory. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

----- Original Message ----- From: "david turgeon" <eerie@mnemonic.net> To: "Nick Rejack" <nrejack@mailandnews.com> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 4:16 PM Subject: Re: (idm) Necessary IDM albums /Thoughts on Ischemic folks

quoted 1 line Minimal for me always meant minimal effort. Come on, its difficult to

> > Minimal for me always meant minimal effort. Come on, its difficult to

listen

quoted 6 lines to. Don't you feel cool becuase you like it?

> > to. Don't you feel cool becuase you like it? > > hmm? minimal is difficult to listen to? god, i wonder what's EASY. i > usually listen to minimal techno when i want to have music i don't have > to think about. it's my alternative to silence. i wouldn't call that > difficult music.

Yes, minimal can be difficult to listen to, if you want to sit and just listen. There is a lot more going on in, say, Mouse on Mars's Niun Niggung or Hrvatski's latest than anything on Chain Reaction. I'm not slagging it off though. It certainly has its place as ambience. I can appreciate Jake Mandell's Healing CDR as auditory wallpaper for example, or the muted body funk of Porter Ricks.

quoted 15 lines this is the funniest overgeneralization someone can make about

>this is the funniest overgeneralization someone can make about >'difficult music': that people listen to it merely because they feel >it's going to give them some social status. > 'difficult music': that people listen to it merely because they feel > it's going to give them some social status. if that is so, well, EVERY > kind of music is going to influence your social perception anyway, & > difficult music (let me toss in electroacoustics, noise, free jazz, > glitchies & other weird stuffs which i happen to love dearly), by being > so demanding, does not allow one to take it too lightly, so that problem > is much more likely to happen with 'easy listenable' genres such as > house, drum n bass, name it. i've never encountered a single person who > buys stacks of weird records just because they think it'll make them > cool. & if they do, it's their problem, not the music's. what usually > happens is that someone will buy something they know they won't > understand right away, in a genuine wish to broaden their musical

knowledge.

quoted 6 lines once again a marginal problem gets the spotlight & the music that it's

> > once again a marginal problem gets the spotlight & the music that it's > associated with gets mistaken as the cause of the problem. > > one more: difficulty in music is EXACTLY what sprouted that metagenre > still called 'idm'. if you dismiss it, you're being contradictory.

I don't dismiss difficulty in music at all. I enjoy harsh noise (Pan Sonic, Vanio, Vaiasanen, Farmer's Manual, Merzbow) for the pure sonic assault, and I can appreciate the different textures and timbres these artists create. I enjoy "microscopic" (12k/Raster/Noton) for the minimal, mind clearing qualities. I'm not disagreeing with you here at all, in fact I'm wholeheartedly agreeing. I just think you missed the point. Difficulty in music (and non-music sound, but that's an argument for another day) definetely has its place, but there is a lot of wannabe slag out there that makes it difficult to see the gems. nrejack --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines I got Ischemic Folks last week after the recommendations of several >on

>I got Ischemic Folks last week after the recommendations of several >on >this list and I must say that nearly all of it (especially R. >Devine) >sounds quite a bit like Autechre (circa Chiastic Slide)... I >was rather >disappointed by its lack of freshness. Anyone else think >this?

I agree, there's not much new or good about that collection. I think it's a good example of how easy it is to sell bland music to people if you package it correctly. And it's amusing when it happens to a group of folks who refer to the music they listen to as Intelligent. Thing is, the lack of freshness you noticed is what sells, for the most part, and there is nothing different about IDM as a genre than any other type of music. Does anyone here honestly think that talented young up&comings will listen to the Ischemic Folks cd, or the new Lexaunculpt record, and think to themselves: "This is different, great music that I can really feel!" I doubt it. They'll rebel against the played out genre of IDM and do something entirely different, just like the people who started 'IDM' rebelled against what was in place in their time. Because it IS a genre now and as soon as something becomes an established genre, as we have seen proven over and over again, most of the talent goes elsewhere. Anyway, the cover art on that disc should have warned you about what to expect. =) sgy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 1/18/00 2:56:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cesium5Hz@aol.com writes: << We *cannot* forget the contributions of Likemind, B12, Applied Rhythmic Technology, Reload, Artificial Intelligence/ Warp, Basic Channel/Chain Reaction, Planet E, Eevolute, Metamorphic, etc. Within these labels one should find some of the most *essential* creative electronic music. Also, out of the Detroit/313 axis are dozens more, like Axis, M-Planet, Transmat, Metroplex, UR, Ersatz Audio and the mighty Red Planet (just the hits, man). And we *should not* forget the current effect of Schematic, Skam, Fatcat, DIN, Mille Plateaux, Worm Interface etc. Man, talk about stark contrast between these labels and the ones preceding. Fact: Ischemic Folks is (cut) That's pretty sad. Can I vote that for future IDM polls we assemble some sort of panel of people who bought 90% of the important albums of the year? Not that I qualify, but it seems it'd be more accurate that way. People like Lance, Duke, etc. are more in the position to vote for what was best when they heard all the contenders. I mean, film awards, Nobel Prizes, etc. are all determined by a commitee, not a mass vote. Matt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line ===== Original Message From AeOtaku@aol.com =====

>===== Original Message From AeOtaku@aol.com =====

quoted 8 lines Can I vote that for future IDM polls we assemble

>Can I vote that for future IDM polls we assemble >some sort of panel of people who bought 90% of the >important albums of the year? Not that I qualify, >but it seems it'd be more accurate that way. People >like Lance, Duke, etc. are more in the position to >vote for what was best when they heard all the contenders. >I mean, film awards, Nobel Prizes, etc. are all determined >by a commitee, not a mass vote.

Um, I think you're taking such a poll way too seriously. If you consider it a popularity contest, obviously it's very accurate. I'm presuming most people vote on whether they like something, rather than whether they deem it a significant work. I know what I like, so I don't let it bother me that every year the charts are topped by things I didn't enjoy particularly. Michael --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 19/01/00 9:26:01 AeOtaku writes:

quoted 12 lines Fact: Ischemic Folks is (cut)

> Fact: Ischemic Folks is (cut) > > That's pretty sad. > Can I vote that for future IDM polls we assemble > some sort of panel of people who bought 90% of the > important albums of the year? Not that I qualify, > but it seems it'd be more accurate that way. People > like Lance, Duke, etc. are more in the position to > vote for what was best when they heard all the contenders. > I mean, film awards, Nobel Prizes, etc. are all determined > by a commitee, not a mass vote. >

Remember that this is a *people's* vote, that's why anyone (without restrictions) can send their vote in - not an exclusive expert's vote, if it was it might not be representative. Of course we could have a people's vote and an experts vote separately. In no instance have I specified that this is a *definitive* poll. Just one that might reflect the votes of *all* who have sent them in. Would it also be sad that Solvent and Autechre's EP 7 is polling as well? A_Zed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:00:56 Andrew Schrock wrote:

quoted 3 lines Also, RE: chiastic slide.. I think Multiple >Santa said that he talked to

>Also, RE: chiastic slide.. I think Multiple >Santa said that he talked to >some of the Schematic folks and the album was >delayed *4* years from >creation to release (PREceeding Chiastic >Slide!).

the tracks on 'ischemic folks' were made before '95? i would take that with a grain of salt. Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines (Do you mean a minimal album you COULD NOT live without?)

> (Do you mean a minimal album you COULD NOT live without?) > > In one word (or two) : Asteroid by Emmanuel Top (NovaMute).

Wow, I never would have guessed that anybody was so attached to this. When it came into the radio station I worked at, I was absolutely shocked at the blatant rip-off of the Plastikman "Musik" album that "Asteroid" was - everything from similar 303 patterns to the album cover & design. Compare them closely, and you'll see what I'm talking about. BTW, my pick is for "Musik", hands down. I do remember that Top had at least a couple decent tracks on "Asteroid", but I was so put off by the way he seemed to be ripping off Hawtin that I didn't give it much respect. Just my 2 cents. Bill / dj marathon -- AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] / http://www.appnet.com http://www.chromedecay.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines I was absolutely

>I was absolutely >shocked at the blatant rip-off of the Plastikman "Musik" album that >"Asteroid" was - everything from similar 303 patterns to the album >cover & design.

just asking (no attack intended): how are the designs similar? color schemes are completely different, art work is completely different. if you mean both designs are minimal in composition, i think that's due to the fact that the artwork is meant to parallel the music-- which, in this case, would be minimal. in top's defense listen to 'spherique' for one of the most tasteful build-ups ive encountered in the minimal genre. np: ian pooley "cold wait" On Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:05:28 -0600 William VanLoo <wdvanloo@sigma6.com> writes:

quoted 27 lines (Do you mean a minimal album you COULD NOT live without?)

>> (Do you mean a minimal album you COULD NOT live without?) >> >> In one word (or two) : Asteroid by Emmanuel Top (NovaMute). > >Wow, I never would have guessed that anybody was so attached to this. >When it came into the radio station I worked at, I was absolutely >shocked at the blatant rip-off of the Plastikman "Musik" album that >"Asteroid" was - everything from similar 303 patterns to the album >cover & design. > >Compare them closely, and you'll see what I'm talking about. BTW, my >pick is for "Musik", hands down. I do remember that Top had at least a >couple decent tracks on "Asteroid", but I was so put off by the way he >seemed to be ripping off Hawtin that I didn't give it much respect. > >Just my 2 cents. > >Bill / dj marathon >-- >AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] / http://www.appnet.com > > http://www.chromedecay.org > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line just asking (no attack intended):

> just asking (no attack intended):

none taken.

quoted 4 lines how are the designs similar? color schemes are completely different, art

> how are the designs similar? color schemes are completely different, art > work is completely different. if you mean both designs are minimal in > composition, i think that's due to the fact that the artwork is meant to > parallel the music-- which, in this case, would be minimal.

This is from a couple years back, so bear with me. I'm remembering looking at the back covers of both, and if I remember correctly, both are white with red lettering, arranged completely in a square around the edges of the cover, with a logo in the middle. Also, Top's album cover is blank white with a single element (the circle) and artist/album name, where Hawtin's is blank white with a single element (the Plastikman logo) and the artist/album name. It struck me as very similar, though that's probably more the fault of the graphic designer than Top. I was doing a lot more graphic design at the time, though, so I was probably more sensitive to it then.

quoted 3 lines in top's

> in top's > defense listen to 'spherique' for one of the most tasteful build-ups ive > encountered in the minimal genre.

Actually, I believe I own "Spherique" (it's a one-sided 12", right?), and I agree, that was one of the good tracks on there. I fully admit that I probably blew it off too quickly based on what I perceived as a rip-off, but that's what happened. If someone I know has it, I'll give it another listen. Peace, Bill / dj marathon -- AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] / http://www.appnet.com http://www.chromedecay.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org