Adam J Weitzman wrote:
quoted 9 lines Ignorance is not cluelessness. The two are not synonymous. Cluelessness>
>
> Ignorance is not cluelessness. The two are not synonymous. Cluelessness
> implies some familiarity with the subject matter, ie, a person who says
> "all techno sounds the same to me," or when presented with any piece of
> techno says "turn that techno shit off" within ten seconds without
> allowing it to develop, is clueless. The average top-40 radio listener has
> not been exposed to much techno at all, and is thus ignorant.
>
OK, I'll try to be more accurate from now on! :)
quoted 6 lines Of course, Sire could do the easy thing and pay MTV to make "On" a "Buzz>
> Of course, Sire could do the easy thing and pay MTV to make "On" a "Buzz
> Clip" or something (and I'm sure this is how clips get into that
> situation), but they obviously feel that it won't come back to them in
> record sales. What does that tell you?
>
I dunno, maybe they think he's high-risk? What does it tell you?
Why do they obviously feel that way? Because Sire has NOT made it a
"buzz clip"?
quoted 6 lines other varieties of music don't get equal exposure and thus> > other varieties of music don't get equal exposure and thus
> > don't seem "popular". Masses do go with the flow.
>
> True. But there's certainly enough spanners in the works to show you that
> that isn't *always* the case.
>
I see. When I say "other varieties," I most likely mean techno (ambient,
trance, etc) because that's what we on IDM are into (keeping this debate
relevant to the list), so who are some examples of BIG label techno spanners
that don't fit the case?
quoted 9 lines Your argument is that each music deserves the level of popularity that it> > Your argument is that each music deserves the level of popularity that it
> > currently has...that techno deserves to be right where it is...
>
> No, I said nothing about *deserving*, I was talking about *expectation*. I
> fully expected techno to reach the current level of popularity it has now,
> and it would surprise the hell out of me if all of a sudden Moby, The
> Aphex Twin and FSoL were crashing the US Top 40. I would be elated, to say
> the least, but I would be surprised as hell.
>
Hm, I see. Well, why did you expect it to go only this far?
Is it due to the industry, or the music quality, or expected popular demand?
Who or what is to blame? And how can we solve the problem and get what we
listen to (and what's played at raves) up in the charts?
quoted 13 lines it's corporate conspiracy. A big reason why techno is not up>
> > it's corporate conspiracy. A big reason why techno is not up
> > there in the Top40 is because it's on SMALL labels run by SMALL businesses,
> > rarely corps. Aphex is getting recognition (exposure) know because he's on
> > a BIGGER label, not because the viewers/masses requested him.
>
> Uh, excuse me, but, just how did The Aphex Twin end up on that bigger
> label, hmmmm? It couldn't be because he was selling lots of records and
> Sire wanted to cash in, hmmmm? Just maybe? Or perhaps they're taking a
> loss on him and are doing it just for street cred? (NOT!) This is a
> *company* with a bottom line, and if they didn't think AFX was/would
> be popular they wouldn't have signed him.
>
My conspiracy theory WAS pretty far fetched. :*)
[mentality of the industry deleted]
That's it! That's what bugs me! It's the OUT-FOR-MONEY attitude which keeps
SO many artists from being given a chance. Labels won't know if they should
take a chance unless there's demand...unless someone else takes a chance
(like Grant at RePHLeX). Everybody's gotta climb this absurd ladder!
The industry selects what it sells...but the consumer selects what s/he buys...
The artists NEED exposure to GET exposure...it's like you NEED money to GET
money...you NEED experience to GET a job that gives you experience...
the rich get richer and the poor stay poor. Sometimes I hate the conflictist,
dog-eat-dog, capitalist society we live in...
OK, that's out of my system...back to the topic. :)
quoted 12 lines How can it deserve to be there when the ladder hasn't been raised to give>
> > How can it deserve to be there when the ladder hasn't been raised to give
> > it a chance to climb??? The major force which raises this ladder is the
> > industry, not the music quality or choice of the masses. That's my argument.
>
> And it's a valid one, and I agree with you. What I'm disagreeing with is
> the notion that the record companies somehow drive the consumer to buy
> certain things, which makes them popular. There are far too many
> exceptions to the rule (both successes that had no label backing and
> failures that had tons) for it to even be considered a rule. Yes, the
> label gives it a push, sometimes a big push, but in the end the consumer
> makes the choice.
Well, my "conspiracy" was far fetched, but the way the industry is selective
about what it promotes/exposes has a large influence on the masses...and the
masses really can't demand something they don't know about (RePHLeX has done
a great job in exposing Aphex, thus he got popular demand, and is now on Sire)
so they select from what's available...and what's available is selected by
the industry...and what the industry selects is based a lot on what the
people select...etc...etc...etc...Industry & Consumer go hand-in-hand when
it comes to an artist's success I suppose...but for the artist, it must be
like trying to climb a greased pole most of the time!
quoted 10 lines Sure, deciding how to push a band is an art, not a science. But it's a>
> Sure, deciding how to push a band is an art, not a science. But it's a
> consumer-driven art. The consumer builds the canvas on which the record
> companies must paint its favorite colors on. Sometimes, different canvases
> demand different colors. I think it's obvious that now, the labels are
> seeing the value in techno acts, so that when the consumer canvas demands
> techno colors, they'll be ready to splash it on in large amounts. This is
> the buildup here, folks. They obviously think they can make it happen, as
> the signings of Moby and The Aphex Twin clearly indicate.
>
What do you think? Do you think they CAN make it happen? Do you think it
WILL happen? Do you (personally) want it to happen? I sure do!!!!!!!!!
Wouldn't it be nice if it were the other way around? Industries build the
canvas and we, the consumers&artists, do the painting. :)
So, debating point-for-point aside, and I agreeing with most if not all of
your points, how can we either make this industry better, or learn to work
with the current one in a better way? I'd like to learn about the industry
before I dive in head first...as I'm a (starving) artist. Don't wanna get
taken advantage of and starve even more! :) I've got a decent book called
_Sound_Advice:_The_Musician's_Guide_to_the_Record_Industry_ by Wayne Wadhams.
It's got the industry flowchart, explanations of royalties, lawyers and how
to do business, and copies of contracts and forms in the back.
Any suggestions for how to "beat the system" are greatly appreciated.
Too bad Moby isn't on this list -- he could share some experience and
ideas with us, and/or learn a thing or two.
quoted 1 line - Adam J Weitzman> - Adam J Weitzman
-djkc