IDM Mailing Archive

sorry to breakdown your reply like this, but it's much easier than ranting again :) In a message dated 4/23/2002 12:09:16 PM Pacific Standard Time, gozravp@yahoo.com writes:

quoted 4 lines In that, I

> In that, I > mean that the music produced is most often far too > involved to try and "get" anything more than, well, > music out of it.

music is evocative. music is not just wallpaper. i don't think i would love music so much if it were all about how the aesthetic of a certain song appealed to me. it's a lot deeper than that. there is heavy emotional appeal in a lot of music from the big phil spector pop productions to classical to country to the weird "out-there" experimental stuff... there definitely is music which doesn't resonate with me emotionally, and if that music doesn't appeal to my dancing sensibilities, chances are i'm not going to be interested in it. T>

quoted 5 lines but to be so direct as to consider the sex of the

> but to be so direct as to consider the sex of the > artist up front seems a bit odd to me. If I wanted to > understand or explore a cultural divide [ethnic, > political, gender] I'll listen to punk rock or - god > forbid - talk radio. But trying bring attention to

here, i think you're missing the point. sure, there is idm out there that's created without any kind of gender agenda (that's fun to say, huh? gender agend gender agenda). probably most of it is not created with an underlying "plan" to manifest specific female or male ideas, but the artists sex surely informs their perspective, identity, and hence these things are reflected in their creative output. and while i can see why these things wouldn't interest you if you listen to idm for purely sonic reasons, as someone who tries to get something beyond finding the coolest bleep sound ever out of the music, these factors play a role in the way i listen to all music.

quoted 3 lines such idm just seems a bit silly. The last thing on

> such idm just seems a bit silly. The last thing on > my mind when I put dat politics in my disc player is > "I wonder which beep the woman member was making..."

again... that's not what this is about... it's not about justifying creative output by assigning the gender of the artist to the author. it's about recognizing the things in the music that are uniquely female. dat politics is a group i don't necessarily hear a male or female point counterpoint kind of dynamic in... but there is some girly sounding pop on the new record :)

quoted 6 lines Remember the BOC is gay string that wouldn't die? I

> Remember the BOC is gay string that wouldn't die? I > see this discussion about as meaningful. They both > end up at the same place: who cares? Either you like > someone's music or you don't. If the sex of the > creator is something anybody needs to consider when > judging a work, perhaps they are missing the point.

yes, if you listen to something purely because it's female or male then there's probably a problem with the music to begin with (you should be able to enjoy anything on its own merit, right? heavily conceptual stuff usually bores the piss out of me and just about everyone i know). choosing things to listen to this way is annoying in the same way that girls who listen to all ani difranco and whatever other lillith fair type things are purely because it's made by women is something i find narrow-minded... if that's someone's type of thing, no offense, i just don't get it. >

quoted 4 lines try to place myself in a social environment where

> try to place myself in a social environment where > gender, race and sex are not considered unless > involving something *directly* related to gender, race > or sex.

everything is directly related to these identifiers because these things directly inform our perspective and the way we experience the world and are reflected in the things we make and enjoy.

quoted 6 lines But if two girls

> > But if two girls > >walked into a coffee shop and, after noticing that > there happen to be twice as many men as women there, > one mentions "hey, this place seems rather 'male > dominated', call your sister and her friends" that > would seem a bit absurd.

yeah, that is absurd... but to compare that to this situation is to trivialize it. it's no small problem. it relates to equal opportunity. coffee shops being filled with more men than women is not important... a community that represents more than half of the population not getting the respect, credit and attention they deserve is a big deal :) sorry to go on so long. i'm sure some people are bored stiff at this point with this thread, but, well, don't read it :) i think this is an interesting debate. no offense intended to anyone who feels contrarily. i'm not some hoighty-toity bleeding heart politically correct guy either, so..... yeah, gregory