and now a formal reply to brox rant.
quoted 6 lines From: Brock Suter <brock@alchemyfx.com>
>From: Brock Suter <brock@alchemyfx.com>
>To: idm@hyperreal.org
>I thank andy panda for the subject line.
>That's what this all has to do with, along with respect, or lack of.
>In looking through my IDM archives to find what kind of poster Andy was,I
>found something very disturbing.quoted 1 line But first a disclaimer:
>But first a disclaimer:quoted 4 lines I am not trying for force my morals on anyone. You can do what you want,
>I am not trying for force my morals on anyone. You can do what you want,
>but when people start posting, in public, about things that I'm not cool
>with (I.E.: illegal/immoral/things that do not belong on this list) that's
>when I feel I should say something.
i'm sorry that you feel that copying something for someone & refusing money
for it is immoral. i'm sorry that you feel that an offer of hard to come by
'idm' tunes to the people who would appreciate it most is something that
doesn't belong on this list.
quoted 9 lines Read this entire post as IMHO.
>Read this entire post as IMHO.
>
>:begin rant:
>
>Due to people like andy (aka Joseph Andrew Gallo aka AJ), this list is
>rapidly becoming a haven for bootlegs/auctions/sales/trades. Some may think
>this is ok, but I do not. And I'll tell you why. Andy, along with others
>who have made similar posts, are greedy little thieves who think they are
>ENTITLE to everything and anything they want.
i've never felt entitled to anything more than what i've earned.
quoted 3 lines In November and December of 1999, it appears that Andy CDR'd his ENTIRE
>In November and December of 1999, it appears that Andy CDR'd his ENTIRE
>collection of rare IDM records and auctioned them off for as much money as
>he could get.
i only sold about a sixth of my collection, & i didn't cdr that stuff just
to sell it. i cdrd those tunes to preserve them. on the whole, i did not get
as much money as i could've for my well preserved vinyl.......vinyl that
could no longer be purchased outside of a private collection.
quoted 4 lines In the post he made this week about the ae bootleg, he revealed that not
>In the post he made this week about the ae bootleg, he revealed that not
>only does he still have ALL of the music that he auctioned off on EBAY, he
>is willing to use it to trade for even more bootleg copies of rare IDM
>music.
& how about how you got ahold of that coachella set. did our mutual friend
get that out of a trade? no. i gave it to him, along with a few other
heavywieght goodies. i trade what i have to when it's necassary & the rest
of the time i give it away.
quoted 1 line Some people see nothing wrong with this practice.
>Some people see nothing wrong with this practice.
mainly the ones who jones to death for new tunes. sound like any of you
reading this?
quoted 3 lines I do.
>I do.
>
>I OWN all of those records and I love them.
so you love items. i love sound.
quoted 7 lines I would NEVER think of giving them up because they are a part of my
>I would NEVER think of giving them up because they are a part of my
>collection. I've downloaded (or recorded myself) quite a few of them on
>mp3/CD for backup, and even further, originally purchased MANY of them in
>dual formats, both vinyl and CD, for the same reason. I understand this is
>a privilege of having a decent job and money to do so, but that's why I
>work. I HAVE given out copies of many of these items, mainly in the form
>of mixtapes, but have asked for NOTHING in return.
tapes are shite. i HAVE given out cdrs of many tunes & have asked for
NOTHING in return. i have also started requesting that my offer of a cheap
plastic digital audio disc be returned with another cheap plastic digital
audio disc. aren't we all just detestable crooks.
quoted 5 lines I've tried to explain WHY I think it's wrong to sell an original of a rare
>I've tried to explain WHY I think it's wrong to sell an original of a rare
>object and keep a perfect copy before. Some people understood and some
>people didn't. Andy is one of those who obviously doesn't. Some think
>that there is no theft here, just 'idm patron saintly behavior' because
>they are allowing others a RARE chance at OWNING this music.
you call it thievery. i call it sharing. you call it owning. i call it
experiencing.
quoted 2 lines This is bullshit.
>This is bullshit.
>Just because you WANT something doesn't mean you are entitled to it.
i NEVER said i was entitled to something just because i want it.
quoted 6 lines Look at the warez scene.
>Look at the warez scene.
>
>If this was a Steinberg mailing list, would it be ok to sell your original
>copies of cubase, recycle, and rebirth here, while telling everyone that
>you ARE keeping (and will be selling/trading) CDR's of the originals and
>photocopies of the manuals?
cute how you snuk in the word selling on the other side of /trading. is that
anything like bound execution/fistfight? it's also a near impossible task to
obtain highly sought-after music without tracks of equal or greater
scarcity.
quoted 7 lines No it would not.
>No it would not.
>
>Is it ok to make copies of money and sell the bills?
>
>No it is not.
>
>So what makes these records any different?
they are NO LONGER AVAILABLE. genuine currency hasn't gone out of print.
quoted 2 lines Oh, they're RARE and OUT OF PRINT and everyone should be able to listen to
>Oh, they're RARE and OUT OF PRINT and everyone should be able to listen to
>them.
i'm overjoyed that we'll never share the same view. you'd most obiously
rather that everyone went without.
quoted 2 lines While I'm not going to argue that people shouldn't be able to listen to the
>While I'm not going to argue that people shouldn't be able to listen to the
>music,
you have me fooled. you've done a damn fine job of convincing me otherwise.
how else are people gonna get their ears on all of this out of print stuff?
originals? that's a fucking laugh & a half.
quoted 2 lines I am going to say that I don't think it's cool to publicly post blatantly
>I am going to say that I don't think it's cool to publicly post blatantly
>illegal practices to this list.
everyone loves a cop. you ooze with ethics.
quoted 4 lines It's completely disrespectful to all the people have gone to the record
>It's completely disrespectful to all the people have gone to the record
>store twice a week for years, who paid for and cherish this music, it's
>disrespectful to the labels who are represented here as well as the artists
>themselves.
well i'm one of those people who have gone to the record store twice a week
for years & i've never felt disrespected when i hear about someone having a
cdr of something i paid for. & flowing someone tunes they most likely
wouldn't otherwise hear, is an excellent endorsement for any label or
artist.
quoted 8 lines Some may argue that this isn't the case but it is, AFAIK.
>Some may argue that this isn't the case but it is, AFAIK.
>
>I makes the whole list look greedy, immature and stupid.
>
>It's no wonder that artists like FSOL, RDJ, AE, BDP, James Bernard, JSD,
>MMM, etc can't stand it here. And yeah kids, you'd be surprised who's been
>on IDM in the years I've been here. I still talk to quite a few of them
>and they think IDM is a big shithole now.
idm is blowing the fuck up. everyday there is more interest than ever. & i
doubt any of us kids would be surprised who's been on the list since you
joined way back in the twentieth century.
quoted 17 lines 'Back in the old days' there were few FS/FA/FT lists posted. If you wanted
>'Back in the old days' there were few FS/FA/FT lists posted. If you wanted
>to sell or trade something, you would post that you have a list of items
>for sale and anyone who's interested in knowing what they are would email
>you privately for that list. Or a simple url with the list would suffice.
>
>Today we have a bunch of little fuckers running around trying to make money
>and posting a million auction anouncments and updates. All I can chalk it
>up to is immaturity, greed and laziness.
>
>I motion that we ban (or limit) this practice from the list once again.
>
>This list is a place for discussion of the music we call IDM, not a
>place for finding the music.
>
>I used to email people asking for their FS lists. Now I want to email
>people telling them to fuck off and die every time a 150+ line auction list
>pops into my IDM box.
it sounds like you want to tell people to fuck off & die just because you're
still alive & you have the ability to.
quoted 7 lines Personally, I don't use IDM as a vehicle for making money OR a name for
>Personally, I don't use IDM as a vehicle for making money OR a name for
>myself. It keeps things simpler that way. I love to dj and I do it for
>FREE. I love to play live, and I do it for FREE. I love to make people
>tapes, and I do it for FREE. I don't mind that people ARE making money off
>the music I love, artists or labels for example, but when I see people
>constantly updating the list on their auctions, where the starting bid for
>a copy of mask 200 is $150, it makes me want to puke.
i paid PJ $150 for mask 200 cuz that's what he asked for it. what's the
difference between PJ asking $150 for it or myself doing the same? while i'm
thinking of it, the auction Lance McGannon held last year was advertised on
the list. he also accepted $330 of my money for the twoism 12", a record
that had been a gift to him from boc themselves. how's that? boc - zip,
Lance - $330. please brock, tell us what you think of PJ & Lance McGannon.
why do i get the feeling you'll sidestep this issue if you reply at all?
quoted 14 lines It's all about GREED and the quest for MORE stuff.
>It's all about GREED and the quest for MORE stuff.
>
>Fuck all you little shitheads.
>
>You have no place here, as far as I am concerned.
>
>:end rant:
>
>Andy is confused.
>
>In one post (10.26.99) he said:
>
> > ok, if you have a problem w/whats below, please e-mail me
> > personally, not the list:
i never said that. i don't know where you got that from but it sure wasn't
me.
quoted 13 lines In another (3.16.00) he said:
>In another (3.16.00) he said:
>
> > TO ANYONE WHO HAS A PROBLEM WITH MY TRADE OFFER & WANTLIST & JUST NEEDS
>TO BE VOCAL ABOUT IT, POST YOUR COMMENTS ON THE LIST OR WHINE TO YOUR
>FRIENDS. JUST DON'T EMAIL ME CUZ I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK.
>
>then later (3.16.00):
>
> > none of care brock. have a shitfit over something that matters eh
>
>I said 'I do care' and I got told:
>
> > bravo you fucking idiot. eat a dick.
also cute how you decided to make no mention of my serious apology within a
few hours of writing that.
quoted 7 lines I'd like to open the floor to the more intelligent members of IDM-L and ask
>I'd like to open the floor to the more intelligent members of IDM-L and ask
>what should be done about the rampant abuse and subsequent deterioration of
>this list.
>
>thank you for listening.
>
>brock
your welcome brock.
andy aka joseph andrew gallo aka a.j.
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