yeah all very points. It's like most things in life, no one is ever going to
agree. For the most part I don't look at it like it's a big deal. I think
huge scale life-style advertising as a concept is pretty funny. They're
targeting you/me, but come on is anyone really buying because of this? And
if they are they deserve to be duped into thinking they've bought into
"cool". We would certainly draw the line at some tie-ins, but generally we
leave it up to the artist as to whether they want to get involved. We don't
really chase it, but if it comes to us we don't immediatly dismiss it. Oh
and generally I think Moby is pretty crap but I did think that comment had
some validity. Speaking from experience we've turned down some things only
to have them appear with very similar music.
Jeff
on 5/9/01 3:04 PM, Brian Gause at BGause@zaplet.com wrote:
quoted 225 lines Jeff
> Jeff
>
> This may be your reason, but it's still an excuse. To say that Amon should
> get the money instead of someone else is a cop-out. Sure, Moby has a good
> point about choosing the more pragmatic of two options...but his words have
> NOTHING to do with the real issue at hand.
>
> If you take money from advertisers for a product that you disagree with or
> don't believe in, then you're selling out. Period. You're compromising your
> art for something you disagree with. It doesn't matter that someone else
> would get the money or that the track was already written. It's about
> trading art for money from a product/service you disagree with. That's the
> point. It's about artistic integrity, not about the pragmatics of where the
> money goes or whether the song already existed or not.
>
> Maybe Amon drinks coke and it's not a big deal. Maybe he likes BMWs. Or
> maybe Aphex likes the anti-drug message in the latest campaign. I'm not
> concerned here with the specifics of these cases, so don't think I'm
> deriding these artists in any way. I'm simply talking about the meaning of
> selling-out.
>
> But, christ...since when do we listen to Moby for questions about morality?
> He likes to talk about god, vegetarians and the environment, but he's got
> the moral code of a two-year old baby on crack. He's a flighty, half-arsed
> space cadet who wouldn't know a sell-out if he signed a contract that
> specified it in a 72-point, bold, flashing red-and-blue font.
>
> For my money, Moby is a complete sell-out, a leech who jumps at the first
> signs that someone else might be bleeding money that could go into anyone's
> wallet, but why not his? Justify his shift in musical styles however you
> wish. Justify his recent popularity however you can...but damn, this guy
> chases money like it's the only thing worth the chase. He likes to pretend
> he's an artist, but he's a pop star...and not a very good one at that.
>
> Selling out is selling out...it doesn't matter WHY you did it or what the
> alternative would be, but when you knowingly trade art for money (for a
> product you don't believe in), that's selling out. Excuse it all you want,
> but it is what it is. Apologists be damned.
>
> .Brian
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff/Ninja Tune [mailto:jeff@ninjatune.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 1:52 PM
> To: idm@hyperreal.org
> Subject: Re: [idm] Aphex Twin: sellout?
>
>
> We tried to get a free Coke machine for the office on the back end of that
> deal but it never came through. Probably a good thing seeing as I already
> have a rampant caffeine addiction. We also tried for the free BMW for Amon
> but no luck. Let's put it in perspective here. In this day and age everyone
> should be able to see through advertising. Amon doesn't stand behind Coke
> one way or another, he's not their poster boy. It's just collecting a good
> deal of money to have a track he already recorded used. He can then use said
> money to spend more time not having a day job and making more music. Moby
> made a very good point in an interview, you can either take their money or
> they'll just go and hire someone unknown to make a track that kind of sounds
> like your track they wanted and everyone will think it's you anyway. So
> might as well take the money and put it to good use. It's doing more good in
> the pockets of your favorite artists than it is in someone elses. You
> shouldn't read so much into it. It's just music in the background of a
> message that you either agree with or don't, a product you like or don't.
> Did any of you actually start to drink more Coke because of Amon?
>
> Jeff
>
>
> on 5/9/01 2:18 PM, Lander at gamera_@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> --- Christopher Dilkus <cpdilkus@snip.net> wrote:
>>> Does this mean Amon Tobin has to drink Coke and drive whateverthefuck
>>> kind
>>> of car that was in the commercial? Wow, the Beatles must have worn
>>> Nike's
>>> ('cept Lennon, he was dead) cause they let Nike used Revolution in a
>>> commercial...
>>>
>>> Dil
>>
>> Oh antagonistic yet musically appreciative soul-brother of mine,
>>
>> I think we agree in spirit but I'm sure you missed my point. Cars and
>> shoes are not necessarily ideas or forces of politics, and it can safely
>> be said, I think, that one does not agree or disagree with shoes on a
>> fundamentally philosophical level if one has already chosen to be a
>> popular mainstream musician.
>> The WoD is a different matter. It is ALL about ideas, Theirs vs. Mine.
>> *My idea is that it is a case of the medicine being worse than the
>> disease: drug addiction can often be cured and bodies can usually heal,
>> but there is no known remedy for decades in prison without parole.
>> *Their idea is that druggies should go to jail and rot for their sins.
>> Give me crack over the misguided vengeance of the US government any day--
>> it's more hopeful. Clear philosophical differences here!
>>
>> HOWEVER, as Atomly pointed out, RDJ might not have even known about the
>> whole thing until he recieved a check in the mail. I tried to lace my
>> post liberally with the word "if", but perhaps it was, however important,
>> overlooked.
>>
>> My whole point was that
>> -RDJ is not necessarily a sellout because the music was in some commercial
>> -even IF he knew about it and agreed with the message of the commercial he
>> still isn't a sellout
>> -even IF he somehow is a sellout (whatever the hell a sellout is), it
>> doesn't mean his music suddenly sucks
>> -finally, to not buy Aphex Twin recordings because of this whole debacle
>> is absolutely ridiculous.
>> Agreed?
>>
>>
>> tryin to keep it about the music,
>> Zzb E Z7T
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> RDJ must be very proud... people are willing to fly in the face of
>>> FACTS
>>>> (re: racism and the drug war) in order to defend his integrity. Here's
>>>> another statistic for ya-- this one totally unscientific and drawn from
>>> my
>>>> own experience; take it for what it is: 90% of white people I know
>>> think
>>>> the drug war is not racist, and about 90% of non-white people I know
>>> think
>>>> it is. 90%=/=100%-10%, 90%==large majority. Try this at home folks,
>>> ask
>>>> all your friends. What does this mean? I dunno, I just think it's a
>>>> weird contradiction.
>>>> As for sellout-hood, I think RDJ's beliefs have no bearing whatsoever
>>> on
>>>> the quality of his art. Nor does his selling a song for use in a
>>>> commercial (if that's, in fact, what happened). An artist is an
>>> artist.
>>>> Look at Wagner... he was an anti-semite (Hitler's favorite composer), a
>>>> misogynist, and an all-around asshole, but he wrote some of the most
>>>> beautiful music ever invented. In my opinion. His attitudes make me
>>>> nauseous but his music makes me want to cry, it's so good (np: "Good
>>>> Friday Spell" from Parsifal, Richard Wagner). If RDJ believes that
>>> drug
>>>> use is evil and that the War on Drugs is a good way to end it, so what?
>>>> I'll by his discs anyway, cuz The Man had to pay him with money that
>>> could
>>>> be going towards locking up some poor kid for 30 years who got caught
>>> ONCE
>>>> with some weed. Money to RDJ=RDJ keeps living=more AFX music, and
>>> that's
>>>> a good thing. He's only a sellout if he takes money for doing
>>> something
>>>> that's contrary to his beliefs, and even that wouldn't have any bearing
>>> on
>>>> the quality of his music, would it? Only if he was writing political
>>>> propaganda music, I guess. Fuck "sellout." I can't wait till my
>>> music's
>>>> good enough to make me a sellout! Of course, I'd never try to sue
>>>> Napster... that's just stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Zzb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- Joshua Brown <josh@undertone.com> wrote:
>>>>> man I hope he didn't approve this:
>>>>>
>>>>> I just heard one of his tracks used as the background for a pro-Drug
>>> War
>>>>>
>>>>> commercial here in the US...
>>>>>
>>>>> This is really sad and I consider it a betrayal, as if my opinion
>>> really
>>>>>
>>>>> mattered to him...
>>>>>
>>>>> But then again, artists being no-integrity loser hypocrites while at
>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> same time being musical prodigies seems to be the norm...
>>>>>
>>>>> Now he's in the same bin as Metallica in my mind....
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> =====
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> =====
>>
>>
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