IDM Mailing Archive

Hmm... looking at my AI2 CD, I noticed some weird songwriting credits: 1) The B12, Autechre, and Kenny Larkin songs are owned by "Warp/EMI" 2) The Richard H Kirk track is owned by Island 3) The Seefeel and Polygon Window tracks are owned by Chrysalis Where did these heavies come from all of the sudden? Brian

quoted 9 lines Hmm... looking at my AI2 CD, I noticed some weird songwriting credits:

>Hmm... looking at my AI2 CD, I noticed some weird songwriting credits: > >1) The B12, Autechre, and Kenny Larkin songs are owned by "Warp/EMI" > >2) The Richard H Kirk track is owned by Island > >3) The Seefeel and Polygon Window tracks are owned by Chrysalis > >Where did these heavies come from all of the sudden?

Not owned by, published by. There's quite a difference there. And it's not really all of a sudden. The publishing credit on 'Electro-Soma' is Warp/EMI, Kirk's been with Island as far back as 'Groovy, Laidback and Nasty,' AFX has been with Chrysalis at least since the "On" singles,* Seefeel have always been with Chrysalis to my knowledge... And there's nothing really new about Warp artists being published by heavy hitters - LFO's was Warp/Virgin for 'Frequencies.' * Having noted that RDJ's publisher is Chrysalis and that's also the credited publisher on the GAK single I'm now beginning to think that he's the responsible party. C. -- Channel ** cspot/chris [cspot@netcom.com]

On Thu, 4 Aug 1994, Chris.Hilker wrote:

quoted 1 line Seefeel have always been with Chrysalis to my knowledge...

> Seefeel have always been with Chrysalis to my knowledge...

Through a marketing deal with Too Pure, perhaps, but the first ep (and maybe the second) were all TP. Chrysalis/Too Pure put out the full-length album, and Warp put out the latest EP. Dave ::dmanning@cwis.unomaha.edu::dmanning@eworld.com::dgmanning@aol.com:: :: "Guaranteed like Yoo-Hoo..." :: ::dave.manning@dreamland.unomaha.edu:::::::::::::--Beastie Boys::::::

quoted 5 lines Seefeel have always been with Chrysalis to my knowledge...

>> Seefeel have always been with Chrysalis to my knowledge... > >Through a marketing deal with Too Pure, perhaps, but the first ep (and >maybe the second) were all TP. Chrysalis/Too Pure put out the full-length >album, and Warp put out the latest EP.

Chrysalis Music, not Chrysalis Records. I'm not well-versed enough in music-business nonsense to go into what a songwriter's publisher does, but this is what the earlier posts were about. C. -- Channel ** cspot/chris [cspot@netcom.com]

quoted 8 lines Ok, could someone tell me what's the difference between the

> > > Ok, could someone tell me what's the difference between the > following....? > > (c) A Big Company > (p) Another Big Company > and Published by Yet Another Big Company

This has always been my impression and knowledge gained from books (many published in the '90s): (C) copyrights written material, such as lyrics in songs, and musical compositions in written form. (P) copyrights the actual recorded song and its sounds...which is good for today's sampling technology. I believe (C) may protect the audio recording in someway, also...some sort of standard overall protection of a musical work. I'm not sure... But, to (P) something, you have to send in the work on an audio-recording medium (cassette) to the copyright office (Library of Congress here in the US, I believe). In the old days, songwriter (lyrics), composer (music), and vocalist & performer were usually separate. But nowadays, these are usually combined into one person or band, so they alone are writer, composer and performer all. But there're some who still do it the traditional way...so in this case, the lyrics and written musical composition are (C) copyrighted, and the actual audio output of the performane is (P) copyrighted. As far as collection agency for types of royalties, I believe Harry Fox is a big one here in the US... ASCAP and BMI are something also here in the US, but I have yet to figure out what these are all about... :) Are (C) + (P) items used in the UK? It's strange that I rarely, if ever, see these on import records... -djkc

quoted 13 lines Ok, could someone tell me what's the difference between the

>> Ok, could someone tell me what's the difference between the >> following....? >> >> (c) A Big Company >> (p) Another Big Company >> and Published by Yet Another Big Company > >This has always been my impression and knowledge gained from books >(many published in the '90s): > >(C) copyrights written material, such as lyrics in songs, and musical >compositions in written form. (P) copyrights the actual recorded song >and its sounds...which is good for today's sampling technology.

Right, basically, except a work need not be written to be covered by copyright - films are, for instance.

quoted 2 lines I believe (C) may protect the audio recording in someway, also...some sort

>I believe (C) may protect the audio recording in someway, also...some sort >of standard overall protection of a musical work. I'm not sure...

Circle-P is just a variant of circle-C for phonorecords, basically, from what I can make of the copyright FAQ (it's available from netcom.com in /pub/carrollt/law/copyright/faq).

quoted 3 lines But, to (P) something, you have to send in the work on an audio-recording

>But, to (P) something, you have to send in the work on an audio-recording >medium (cassette) to the copyright office (Library of Congress here in the US, >I believe).

Not anymore: Copyright protection subsists . . . in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. 17 U.S.C. 102(a). A work is "fixed" in a tangible medium of expression when its embodiment in a copy or phonorecord, by or under the authority of the author, is sufficiently permanent or stable to permit it to be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated for a period of more than transitory duration. 17 U.S.C. 101. Note "or phonorecord." C. -- cspot@netcom.com (Chris.Hilker)........a good-foot dance in a dusted trance

On Thu, 4 Aug 1994, Brian Behlendorf wrote:

quoted 4 lines Hmm... looking at my AI2 CD, I noticed some weird songwriting credits:

> > Hmm... looking at my AI2 CD, I noticed some weird songwriting credits: > > 1) The B12, Autechre, and Kenny Larkin songs are owned by "Warp/EMI"

It's not that unusual for a record company to own the publishing rights to a song; Warp makes sense, and EMI's probably along for the ride as they're one of the largest (if not *the* largest) music publishing company in the UK.

quoted 1 line 2) The Richard H Kirk track is owned by Island

> 2) The Richard H Kirk track is owned by Island

This is a puzzler - I would have picked either Virgin (from the past Cab deal) or Instinct in the US. Maybe Island is really hopping on this stuff and has signed Kirk? What label is his new solo album on?

quoted 1 line 3) The Seefeel and Polygon Window tracks are owned by Chrysalis

> 3) The Seefeel and Polygon Window tracks are owned by Chrysalis

Chrysalis UK had some sort of deal w/ Too Pure at one point, I think. However, this doesn't explain why Warp/EMI isn't publishing it... BTW, Brian: Did you get the ltd. ed. on WT!? Dave ::dmanning@cwis.unomaha.edu::dmanning@eworld.com::dgmanning@aol.com:: :: "Guaranteed like Yoo-Hoo..." :: ::dave.manning@dreamland.unomaha.edu:::::::::::::--Beastie Boys::::::

On Thu, 4 Aug 1994, Brian Behlendorf wrote:

quoted 10 lines Hmm... looking at my AI2 CD, I noticed some weird songwriting credits:

> > Hmm... looking at my AI2 CD, I noticed some weird songwriting credits: > > 1) The B12, Autechre, and Kenny Larkin songs are owned by "Warp/EMI" > > 2) The Richard H Kirk track is owned by Island > > 3) The Seefeel and Polygon Window tracks are owned by Chrysalis > > Where did these heavies come from all of the sudden?

Sad, isn't it? greg 3 0 3

In article: <1662.9408091413@wratting.cam.harlequin.co.uk> roy@harlequin.co.uk writes:

quoted 6 lines Ok, could someone tell me what's the difference between the

> Ok, could someone tell me what's the difference between the > following....? > > (c) A Big Company > (p) Another Big Company > and Published by Yet Another Big Company

It's a bit complex, but I'll try and explain as best as I can. (probably with alot of oversimplification) First of all, every record contains two basic "ownership" issues. 1/ The person(s) who wrote the piece of music and their representative (writer and publisher) 2/ The person who performed the work and their representative (performer (artist or band) and record company) A record company issueing a record must pay "mechanical royelties" to the writer or publisher of the work recorded, usually through a "collection agency" (in the UK it's the MCPS) The (P) symbol, followed by the date is the details of the record company who first issued the work, and the date it was first issued. The (C) symbol is usualy (and wrongly) used to signify the writer and publisher interest. On a record sleeve the (C) symbol should really be used to "protect" the artwork from copyright infringement, and actualy has no bearing whatsoever on the music on the record or CD.

quoted 3 lines Also what does Copyright Control mean,

> Also what does Copyright Control mean, > > eg (c) 1994 Copyright Control

Copyright Control is another oft abused statement. Its proper use is for when no publisher or composer has "laid claim" to a piece of work. The record company issueing a record which no one has laid a copyright claim should put aside the amount of publishing royalties aside against any possible future claim. I hope this makes sense (??). Danny _______________________ .' `. | ---\ | Kudos Records Limited | -----\ ---\ | 36a Kilburn High Road | \--\ ----\ | London NW6 5UA | ----------\ | | --\ ---\ | PH: 071 372 0391 | --\ ---\ | FX: 071 372 0392 | --\ ----\ | | | `._______________________.'

djkc@blkbox.com wrote: ***** (C) copyrights written material, such as lyrics in songs, and musical compositions in written form. (P) copyrights the actual recorded song and its sounds...which is good for today's sampling technology. I believe (C) may protect the audio recording in someway, also...some sort of standard overall protection of a musical work. I'm not sure... But, to (P) something, you have to send in the work on an audio-recording medium (cassette) to the copyright office (Library of Congress here in the US, I believe). ***** I don't know..., but it seems more logical to ME that it would be reversed: (P) (Published?) would cover the writer(s), and (C) would cover the recording itself... Just a thought. TKing13

quoted 3 lines I don't know..., but it seems more logical to ME that it would be reversed:

> I don't know..., but it seems more logical to ME that it would be reversed: > (P) (Published?) would cover the writer(s), and (C) would cover the recording > itself...

It may seem more logical to *you* but that's not how it works. (c) is the copyright to the song itself, (p) is the copyright to the phonorecording of the song. Period. -- Lazlo (lazlo@rt66.com)