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(idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site

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2000-01-05 17:52david turgeon (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 19:46Chris Fahey RE: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 19:58Q-Bot Eye Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
└─ 2000-01-05 21:30Jeff Pitrman Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 20:14Chris Fahey RE: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 20:25Guai Lo Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 20:54david turgeon Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 21:32Q-Bot Eye Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 21:49Christophe McKeon Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 22:29Christophe McKeon Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 22:33Q-Bot Eye Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 22:36Guai Lo Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
└─ 2000-01-06 03:44laerm Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 22:59Ernesto Ikerd Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 23:08William VanLoo Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 23:30Christophe McKeon Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-05 23:32Ernesto Ikerd Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-06 00:05jeff shoemaker Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-06 03:03adam.florin Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
└─ 2000-01-06 04:17Sam Frank Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-06 05:04david turgeon Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-06 05:06Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-06 05:46Guai Lo Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-06 09:30Simon Walley Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
└─ 2000-01-06 15:32adam.florin Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-06 14:51jeff shoemaker Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
2000-01-06 15:22Simon Walley Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
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2000-01-05 17:52david turgeonheh heh -- snip -- Grown Man Shares Seed - Exclusive! It has been very difficult this mont
From:
david turgeon
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Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:52:04 -0500
Subject:
(idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <387384C3.C7928786@mnemonic.net>
heh heh -- snip -- Grown Man Shares Seed - Exclusive! It has been very difficult this month to read any of Simon Reynolds' fascinating observations without being reminded that his sperm count is higher than his IQ. On behalf of everyone who has been subjected to his writing, we'd like to congratulate him on Having Done It With A Lady. Miracle of birth, give us a break. Dogs and cats do it everyday and they have better musical taste. -- snip -- ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 19:46Chris FaheyMy sperm count is higher than my IQ, too. It's not hard to achieve. Unless you're HAL 9000
From:
Chris Fahey
To:
'david turgeon' ,
Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:46:26 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <A6AC16578099D311BC1600508B5578E3367BD1@steamer.raremedium.com>
My sperm count is higher than my IQ, too. It's not hard to achieve. Unless you're HAL 9000.
quoted 31 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: david turgeon [mailto:eerie@mnemonic.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 12:52 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site > > > heh heh > > -- snip -- > > Grown Man Shares Seed - Exclusive! > > It has been very difficult this month to read any of Simon Reynolds' > fascinating observations without being reminded that his > sperm count is > higher than his IQ. On behalf of everyone who has been > subjected to his > writing, we'd like to congratulate him on Having Done It With A Lady. > Miracle of birth, give us a break. Dogs and cats do it > everyday and they > have better musical taste. > > -- snip -- > > ~ david > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-01-05 19:58Q-Bot EyeI didn't mention this before, but now that Mr. Reynolds has been brought up again, I guess
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Q-Bot Eye
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Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:58:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <20000105195845.11799.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com>
I didn't mention this before, but now that Mr. Reynolds has been brought up again, I guess I'll mention it... I think it is rediculous how he picks on Ae, Squarepusher, Aphex, and all the other fine purveyors of IDM (or whatever you want to call it) on his web page, for forgetting about electronic music's orriginal purpose -- dancing... Is this guy fucking nuts? Ummm... Dude, hate to break this to you, but electronic music didn't start as dancing music, it started as experimental "head music" back in the early 40's and even earlier (it wasn't called that, but it was definitely made for listening... although as with any type of "high art" music, some pieces were written for dance...). It has degenerated into dance music (although "electroacoustic" music is still alive and well, it is not brought to us in the mainstream), and could use a little rejuvination in the pop-music/semi-pop-music (underground) scene. I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM and all other forms of "undancable" secular electronic music for making music to listen to once again. Anyway, he's an idiot, because most Ae and Squarepusher songs I hear are very danceable to my ears. And Boards of Canada? I don't think I've ever heard a BoC song that didn't have a very defined "Groove" to it. God, I can't stop thinking about what an idiot this guy is. -Andy! --- david turgeon <eerie@mnemonic.net> wrote:
quoted 19 lines heh heh> heh heh > > -- snip -- > > Grown Man Shares Seed - Exclusive! > > It has been very difficult this month to read any of Simon Reynolds' > fascinating observations without being reminded that his sperm count > is > higher than his IQ. On behalf of everyone who has been subjected to > his > writing, we'd like to congratulate him on Having Done It With A Lady. > Miracle of birth, give us a break. Dogs and cats do it everyday and > they > have better musical taste. > > -- snip -- > > ~ david
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2000-01-05 21:30Jeff PitrmanAt 11:58 AM 1/5/00 -0800, Q-Bot Eye wrote: >I didn't mention this before, but now that Mr.
From:
Jeff Pitrman
To:
Q-Bot Eye ,
Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:30:30 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
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Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <20000105213306.WYTE6199.mail.rdc1.va.home.com@cy838644-a>
At 11:58 AM 1/5/00 -0800, Q-Bot Eye wrote:
quoted 4 lines I didn't mention this before, but now that Mr. Reynolds has been>I didn't mention this before, but now that Mr. Reynolds has been >brought up again, I guess I'll mention it... > >God, I can't stop thinking about what an idiot this guy is.
You're talking about a guy who is vocal in his conviction that Speed Garage is the future, savior, and secretly avant-garde front wave of rave music. ---- "There is no gang of 'intelligent techno' freaks here who break showroom windows to steal pocket calculators." - Jouni Alkio Jeff Pitrman [cCM] jeff@spof.net http://bling.spof.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 20:14Chris Fahey> From: Q-Bot Eye [mailto:q_bot@yahoo.com] > > Is this guy fucking nuts? Ummm... Dude, hat
From:
Chris Fahey
To:
IDM (E-mail)
Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:14:20 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <A6AC16578099D311BC1600508B5578E3367BD8@steamer.raremedium.com>
quoted 9 lines From: Q-Bot Eye [mailto:q_bot@yahoo.com]> From: Q-Bot Eye [mailto:q_bot@yahoo.com] > > Is this guy fucking nuts? Ummm... Dude, hate to break this to you, but > electronic music didn't start as dancing music, it started as > experimental "head music" back in the early 40's and even earlier (it > wasn't called that, but it was definitely made for listening... > although as with any type of "high art" music, some pieces > were written > for dance...). It has degenerated into dance music...
Although your insinuation that dance music is "degenerate" is questionable and snotty, I'm sure most of the list will concur with your opinion of Simon R. That said, I would love to have a "Breakin' II" style dance competition with the dude. Hell, I'd love to just see a videotape of him dancing. My bet is that he stinks just like most IDMers probably do (cept me!) -cf ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - c h r i s t ø p h e r f ª h e y . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ chrisf@raremedium.com 2 1 2 - 6 3 4 - 6 9 5 0 x 2 5 8 http://www.raremedium.com - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 20:25Guai Lo-----Original Message----- From: Q-Bot Eye <q_bot@yahoo.com> To: idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hy
From:
Guai Lo
To:
Q-Bot Eye ,
Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:25:58 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <003201bf57bb$14291200$c6a1aec7@p2s9v5>
-----Original Message----- From: Q-Bot Eye <q_bot@yahoo.com> To: idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org> Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 1:59 PM Subject: Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site :snip:
quoted 3 lines I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM and>I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM and >all other forms of "undancable" secular electronic music for making >music to listen to once again.
You'd like to thank all of the creators of 'Intelligent Dance Music' for not being intelligent DANCE music? Okay...
quoted 4 lines Anyway, he's an idiot, because most Ae>Anyway, he's an idiot, because most Ae >and Squarepusher songs I hear are very danceable to my ears. And Boards >of Canada? I don't think I've ever heard a BoC song that didn't have a >very defined "Groove" to it.
You are very white. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 20:54david turgeon> >I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM and > >all other form
From:
david turgeon
To:
Guai Lo
Cc:
Q-Bot Eye ,
Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 15:54:10 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <3873AF64.F7249BAF@mnemonic.net>
quoted 5 lines I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM and> >I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM and > >all other forms of "undancable" secular electronic music for making > >music to listen to once again. > You'd like to thank all of the creators of 'Intelligent Dance Music' for not > being intelligent DANCE music? Okay...
hey d0od, notice?! the word undanceable was between quotation marks!!! hey, maybe that means something?! oh, & the message was in reference to simon reynolds's erroneous definition of idm as 'undanceable' music! maybe that would be why?!? oh, maybe, would it make sense?!? i wonder!??! it's so complicated!!!!!!! thinking is hard. :( :( :(
quoted 5 lines Anyway, he's an idiot, because most Ae> >Anyway, he's an idiot, because most Ae > >and Squarepusher songs I hear are very danceable to my ears. And Boards > >of Canada? I don't think I've ever heard a BoC song that didn't have a > >very defined "Groove" to it. > You are very white.
oh yeah!! definitely!! it's very hard!!!! ouch!!!! my brainz!!!! it hURTz!!!!!! :( :( :( :( :( :( :( man, this quest against stupidity is going to kill me. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 21:32Q-Bot EyeMy only point was that Simon Reynolds is bafoon for sugesting -- #1 -- That all "geektroni
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Q-Bot Eye
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Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:32:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <20000105213254.3351.qmail@web2102.mail.yahoo.com>
My only point was that Simon Reynolds is bafoon for sugesting -- #1 -- That all "geektronica" (IDM) is undanceable. #2 -- That electronic music is of no use unless you can dance to it (which is a stupid argument anyway, since you CAN dance to a lot of it even if it isn't generic "dance music"). #3 -- That the root of all electronic music is dance music.
quoted 1 line You are very white.> You are very white.
Yes, I am white (but I am pretty well versed on ALL music). No, I can't dance in the conventional sense of the word (just like I can't write music in the conventional sense of the word)... that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. No, BoC doesn't have the deepest grooves around, but yes, their rythms *DO* show a strong resemblence to a lot of down-tempo hip-hop beats. They just use less conventional sounds and textures to convey them. How can you argue that? Suggesting that Dance music was a degeneration of electronic music was a bit brash and perhaps a bit snobby on my part. I do recognize the purpose of dance music, and don't wish an end to it or anything (what else are all those kids going to dance to???). I just grow weary of people having this notion that electronic music's only purpose can be for dancing, when the technology and infinite wealth of sounds and textures allows for so much more. There is room for dance music in it, but there is also room for so much more. It is silly to suggest that because IDM may have it's roots in dance music, that it can't move beyond that (which was the suggestion that Mr. Reynolds was making). Some of us *LIKE* to think about the music we are listening to sometimes (for me, almost all the time) too, not just feel it. Yes, I'm a real nerd. No, I don't feel inferior for it... Man, I didn't think this would start a flame war (and I hope we can keep it civilized). -Andy!
quoted 19 lines :snip:> :snip: > > >I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM > and > >all other forms of "undancable" secular electronic music for making > >music to listen to once again. > > You'd like to thank all of the creators of 'Intelligent Dance Music' > for not > being intelligent DANCE music? Okay... > > >Anyway, he's an idiot, because most Ae > >and Squarepusher songs I hear are very danceable to my ears. And > Boards > >of Canada? I don't think I've ever heard a BoC song that didn't have > a > >very defined "Groove" to it. > > You are very white.
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2000-01-05 21:49Christophe McKeon"man, this quest against stupidity is going to kill me." ~ david It's a lost cost Dave, sa
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Christophe McKeon
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:49:57 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <3873BC83.7CD4AC9E@rcn.com>
"man, this quest against stupidity is going to kill me." ~ david It's a lost cost Dave, save yourself some time and energy. I don't know make music and dance instead. Christophe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 22:29Christophe McKeonI have a few Xenopus Laevis/Borealis mix African Frogs which have just spawned quite a few
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Christophe McKeon
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Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:29:28 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <3873C5C5.4A0F9975@rcn.com>
I have a few Xenopus Laevis/Borealis mix African Frogs which have just spawned quite a few tadpoles. The tads reside in a little area of their own, separated from their cannibalistic parents by just a thin mesh. That isn't really the point of this message of course, if it were I would probably get the same kind of response my trade lists elicit. They dance incessantly to the filter humming, they can feel the hard drives spinning in the computer near by, and their hearts beat. Like us they can even dance while perfectly still. I don't know, have I made my point? Christophe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 22:33Q-Bot EyeMuch of what you say here rings very true, to me at least. > In all seriousness, Simon Rey
From:
Q-Bot Eye
To:
Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:33:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <20000105223305.23385.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
Much of what you say here rings very true, to me at least.
quoted 3 lines In all seriousness, Simon Reynolds comes from a fundamentally> In all seriousness, Simon Reynolds comes from a fundamentally > different context in discussing music than most people on this list. > He's all about populism, dancing, and cultural revolution.
The problem with this is that he can't recognize the value of anything outside of his little [big] revolution. I'd venture to say that everyone here understands the purpose of dance music. Perhaps it is just that he feels so strongly about the rave scene that he sees IDM as a threat to it, and thus he must try to stop it. Is Simon Reynolds a vigilantee? (sp?)
quoted 5 lines Most IDM and the people on this list who follow it are about> Most IDM and the people on this list who follow it are about > abstraction, elitism (to some extent, don't tell me that you who own > the Skam frisbee do so because it sounds great), and the fact that > it's in opposition to most of the stuff Simon and his Dance Music > represent.
I'll totally admit that I am somewhat of an elitist, although I don't own a Skam frisbee, or even any releases from the skam label. (I never really bought much IDM untill just recently... up to now, I just created it -- I didn't realize what a big scene there was for it) But anyway, yea, I mean, look at the name -- '**Intelegent** Dance Music' -- I mean the name leaks elitism between every letter. I think to a certain degree, elitism goes along with the attitude of being original. If you weren't content with the status-quo in the first place, and felt that you could do it better, well, that is somewhat of an elitist view ("This sucks, I could do it better"). Not that that is bad, it is a very healthy attitiude for creativity. -Andy! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 22:36Guai Lo-----Original Message----- From: david turgeon <eerie@mnemonic.net> To: Guai Lo <jotai@min
From:
Guai Lo
To:
david turgeon
Cc:
Q-Bot Eye ,
Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:36:07 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <003101bf57cd$431931a0$a4a0aec7@p2s9v5>
-----Original Message----- From: david turgeon <eerie@mnemonic.net> To: Guai Lo <jotai@mindspring.com> Cc: Q-Bot Eye <q_bot@yahoo.com>; idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org> Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 2:54 PM Subject: Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
quoted 5 lines I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM and> >> >I'd like to give a big pat on the back to all the creators of IDM and >> >all other forms of "undancable" secular electronic music for making >> >music to listen to once again. >> You'd like to thank all of the creators of 'Intelligent Dance Music' for
not
quoted 9 lines being intelligent DANCE music? Okay...>> being intelligent DANCE music? Okay... > >hey d0od, notice?! the word undanceable was between quotation marks!!! >hey, maybe that means something?! oh, & the message was in reference to >simon reynolds's erroneous definition of idm as 'undanceable' music! >maybe that would be why?!? oh, maybe, would it make sense?!? i >wonder!??! it's so complicated!!!!!!! > >thinking is hard. :( :( :(
Apparently articulating any kind of argument is difficult for you, also. What about my comment caused you to lapse into 'h4cK3r-speak'? I won't agree that IDM is undanceable music, but about 90% of the shit discussed on this list would be pretty hard to dance to, unless maybe we're talking about deaf, crippled people. Also, you are an ass.
quoted 3 lines man, this quest against stupidity is going to kill me.>man, this quest against stupidity is going to kill me. > >~ david
Heh. The road to improvement starts at home, dickhead. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 03:44laermOn Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Guai Lo wrote: > Apparently articulating any kind of argument is diffi
From:
laerm
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Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 22:44:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
Reply to:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <Pine.SOL.4.04.10001052238510.20284-100000@unix01>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Guai Lo wrote:
quoted 5 lines Apparently articulating any kind of argument is difficult for you,> Apparently articulating any kind of argument is difficult for you, > also. What about my comment caused you to lapse into 'h4cK3r-speak'? > I won't agree that IDM is undanceable music, but about 90% of the shit > discussed on this list would be pretty hard to dance to, unless maybe > we're talking about deaf, crippled people. Also, you are an ass.
i saw one number substituted for a letter in his message. oh yeah, total hacker-speak. so, being that wells hasn't said anything yet, i feel i must: the proctologist called. he found your head. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# if you ever get close to a human/and human behaviour/be ready to get confused/there's definitely no logic/to human behaviour icq 5562209 but yet so irresistible --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 22:59Ernesto Ikerd>I have a few Xenopus Laevis/Borealis mix African Frogs which have just >spawned quite a f
From:
Ernesto Ikerd
To:
International Damage Machines
Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 16:59:43 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <200001052300.RAA12328@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com>
quoted 9 lines I have a few Xenopus Laevis/Borealis mix African Frogs which have just>I have a few Xenopus Laevis/Borealis mix African Frogs which have just >spawned quite a few tadpoles. The tads reside in a little area of their >own, separated from their cannibalistic parents by just a thin mesh. That >isn't really the point of this message of course, if it were I would >probably get the same kind of response my trade lists elicit. >They dance incessantly to the filter humming, they can feel the hard >drives spinning in the computer near by, and their hearts beat. Like us >they can even dance while perfectly still. >I don't know, have I made my point?
huhhhhuuhh... Frogs are dumb... huuhhuuuhha e Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-1156 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems Fort Worth, Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 23:08William VanLoo> You're talking about a guy who is vocal in his conviction that Speed > Garage is the fut
From:
William VanLoo
To:
Jeff Pitrman
Cc:
Q-Bot Eye ,
Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:08:40 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <3873CEF8.5034D1EF@sigma6.com>
quoted 3 lines You're talking about a guy who is vocal in his conviction that Speed> You're talking about a guy who is vocal in his conviction that Speed > Garage is the future, savior, and secretly avant-garde front wave of rave > music.
You know what? He just might be right. But we don't really discuss "rave music" on this list, now, do we? In all seriousness, Simon Reynolds comes from a fundamentally different context in discussing music than most people on this list. He's all about populism, dancing, and cultural revolution. Most IDM and the people on this list who follow it are about abstraction, elitism (to some extent, don't tell me that you who own the Skam frisbee do so because it sounds great), and the fact that it's in opposition to most of the stuff Simon and his Dance Music represent. Yes, I'm painting with wide brushes this afternoon, but oh well. If you take offense at the mass generalizations I've made above, at least take a second to consider whether or not there's some truth in them. Bill / dj marathon -- AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] / http://www.appnet.com http://www.chromedecay.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 23:30Christophe McKeonPerhaps from a certain vantage point this "statement" makes sense. They do have the good s
From:
Christophe McKeon
To:
Ernesto Ikerd
Cc:
International Damage Machines
Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:30:39 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <3873D41E.E164A184@rcn.com>
Perhaps from a certain vantage point this "statement" makes sense. They do have the good sense of communicating only what is intrinsically valuable to the rest of the frog community though. Sometimes maybe they even sing to themselves or to others purely for the sake of it, but this is beautiful. Christophe Ernesto Ikerd wrote:
quoted 13 lines "huhhhhuuhh... Frogs are dumb... huuhhuuuhha"> > "huhhhhuuhh... Frogs are dumb... huuhhuuuhha" > > e > > Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 > Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-1156 > Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems > Fort Worth, Texas > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
Christophe wrote: I have a few Xenopus Laevis/Borealis mix African Frogs which have just spawned quite a few tadpoles. The tads reside in a little area of their own, separated from their cannibalistic parents by just a thin mesh. That isn't really the point of this message of course, if it were I would probably get the same kind of response my trade lists elicit. They dance incessantly to the filter humming, they can feel the hard drives spinning in the computer near by, and their hearts beat. Like us they can even dance while perfectly still. I don't know, have I made my point? Christophe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-05 23:32Ernesto Ikerd>Perhaps from a certain vantage point this "statement" makes sense. They do >have the good
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Ernesto Ikerd
Cc:
International Damage Machines
Date:
Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:32:43 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <200001052333.RAA12823@cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com>
quoted 4 lines Perhaps from a certain vantage point this "statement" makes sense. They do>Perhaps from a certain vantage point this "statement" makes sense. They do >have the good sense of communicating only what is intrinsically valuable to >the rest of the frog community though. Sometimes maybe they even sing to >themselves or to others purely for the sake of it, but this is beautiful.
Plus, they swim in their own pee-water... e Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-1156 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems Fort Worth, Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 00:05jeff shoemaker> You're talking about a guy who is vocal in his conviction that Speed >Garage is the futu
From:
jeff shoemaker
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Wed, 5 Jan 2000 18:05:52 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <200001060005.SAA01739@mw1.texas.net>
quoted 3 lines You're talking about a guy who is vocal in his conviction that Speed> You're talking about a guy who is vocal in his conviction that Speed >Garage is the future, savior, and secretly avant-garde front wave of rave >music.
god, does this mean that i feel the same way as SR??? scandalous. -------------- 1642 try 621 -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 03:03adam.florinthe following is a bit of pro-reynolds propaganda... because i feel that people, especiall
From:
adam.florin
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Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:03:55 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <v04003a02b499ad38f013@[207.44.229.204]>
the following is a bit of pro-reynolds propaganda... because i feel that people, especially those that are convinced of being "undergroud," tend to pick on successfull people. reason . r ea s o n . . .
quoted 3 lines In all seriousness, Simon Reynolds comes from a fundamentally>In all seriousness, Simon Reynolds comes from a fundamentally >different context in discussing music than most people on this list. >He's all about populism, dancing, and cultural revolution.
--William VanLoo another thing to bear in mind : reynolds is also the paradox of the intellectual who hates intellectuals (cf. orwell, steinbeck...). he is a brilliant writer, historian and music critic. he is by no means a lost drug-addled teen who couldn't pay attention in class, like he might like to believe. he captures the feelings of songs tersely and so eloquently that his style is almost remiscent of, well, good writing, unlike modern music critics who tend to really drop the ball and get so caught up in being funny or cute that they hardly even discuss the music (even certain IDM reviwers do this...!).
quoted 3 lines how he picks on Ae, Squarepusher, Aphex, and all the other fine>how he picks on Ae, Squarepusher, Aphex, and all the other fine >purveyors of IDM (or whatever you want to call it) on his web page, for >forgetting about electronic music's orriginal purpose -- dancing...
--Q-Bot Eye not to pick specifically on Q, but i think in general you've all lost the plot. reynolds does not hate idm, he does not see dance music as the only potential of electronics. that's stupid. he's not an idiot ! to someone like myself who was too young during most of the electronic music revolution, _generation ecstacy_ was a comprehensive history of electronic music, a good way to catch up quick. i have read the chapter on idm a number of times, in which he praises r.james, and tells the rest of the history in a standard subjective tone. and no, he is not much a fan of the music, but if THAT is what you find disagreeable, well, then... i remind you that this is the list where people complain about having to listen to garage, or the music *he* likes. not *everyone* feels or enjoys the complex spectrum of emotions in music that we idm fans do (i.e., uneasiness, false relaxation, mad delight, and other standard afx/ae tricks....) some while ago on the idm-list, franco ingrassia cited reynolds' passage on what he calls 'geektronica'. (http://members.aol.com/blissout/over98.htm) is there anything there that isn't true ? would anybody here not call himself a geek ? (because i know someone will say it : 'himself' is here sexually ambiguous) essentially, the main point that reynolds criticizes about this genre is one that even its own members resent, and dispute ceaselessly : the bug of 'elitism', the secret desire that no more than 300 people should deserve this record, the quest for more music and the delight in connoisseurship, the selfish joy in owning and knowing something secret that the the rest of the world finds unattainable. (and, frankly, undesirable.) .af. ps; props to christophe for making the frogs post in this discussion ! pps; i must say that i find reynolds' mockery of FSOL in the aforementioned book to be cruel and immature, for those who have read it. he does get childish. ppps; i think i have heard someone complain about the name INTELLIGENT DANCE MUSIC one time too many. i am willing to begin discussions on reforming this name. or at least on thinking of different words for the acronym IDM..... ? incomprehensible devolving mentality ? international disenchanted movement ? in dirty minds ? ? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 04:17Sam FrankOn Wed, 5 Jan 2000, adam.florin wrote: > > the following is a bit of pro-reynolds propagan
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Sam Frank
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Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:17:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
Reply to:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <Pine.GSO.4.10.10001052242490.6220-100000@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, adam.florin wrote:
quoted 4 lines the following is a bit of pro-reynolds propaganda... because i feel that> > the following is a bit of pro-reynolds propaganda... because i feel that > people, especially those that are convinced of being "undergroud," tend to > pick on successfull people. reason . r ea s o n . . .
[snip]
quoted 10 lines some while ago on the idm-list, franco ingrassia cited reynolds' passage on> some while ago on the idm-list, franco ingrassia cited reynolds' passage on > what he calls 'geektronica'. (http://members.aol.com/blissout/over98.htm) > is there anything there that isn't true ? would anybody here not call > himself a geek ? (because i know someone will say it : 'himself' is here > sexually ambiguous) essentially, the main point that reynolds criticizes > about this genre is one that even its own members resent, and dispute > ceaselessly : the bug of 'elitism', the secret desire that no more than 300 > people should deserve this record, the quest for more music and the delight > in connoisseurship, the selfish joy in owning and knowing something secret > that the the rest of the world finds unattainable.
On a tangent... An article in this week's NYTimes Magazine, by Tom Wolfe, memorializing Frederick Hart--a neo-classical sculptor completely ignored by critics and the art world who happened to be the most financially successful, popular sculptor of his day--had this to say: "Art worldlings regarded popularity as skill's live-in slut. Popularity meant shallowness. Rejection by the public meant depth. And truly hostile rejection very likely meant greatness. Richard Serra's "Tilted Arc," a leaning wall of rusting steel smack in the middle of Federal Plaza in New York, was so loathed by the building's employees that 1,300 of them, including many federal judges, signed a petition calling for its removal. They were angry and determined, and eventually the wall was removed. Serra thereby achieved an eminence of immaculate purity: his work involved absolutely no skill and was despised by everyone outside the art world who saw it. Today many art worldlings regard him as America's greatest sculptor." Substitute, say, IDMers for art worldlings, and your favorite obscurist act for Serra, and reread. http://www.nytimes.com/library/magazine/home/20000102mag-wolfe24.html Sam, dumbass populism's live-in slut --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 05:04david turgeon> "Art worldlings regarded popularity as skill's live-in slut. Popularity > meant shallown
From:
david turgeon
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Sam Frank
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 06 Jan 2000 00:04:55 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <38742277.26B86BC4@mnemonic.net>
quoted 13 lines "Art worldlings regarded popularity as skill's live-in slut. Popularity> "Art worldlings regarded popularity as skill's live-in slut. Popularity > meant shallowness. Rejection by the public meant depth. And truly hostile > rejection very likely meant greatness. Richard Serra's "Tilted Arc," a > leaning wall of rusting steel smack in the middle of Federal Plaza in New > York, was so loathed by the building's employees that 1,300 of them, > including many federal judges, signed a petition calling for its removal. > They were angry and determined, and eventually the wall was removed. Serra > thereby achieved an eminence of immaculate purity: his work involved > absolutely no skill and was despised by everyone outside the art world who > saw it. Today many art worldlings regard him as America's greatest > sculptor." > Substitute, say, IDMers for art worldlings, and your favorite obscurist > act for Serra, and reread.
substitute whatever comittee got serra to build that for another formed of employees from the building itself, & enjoy your new, possibly obscure, sculpture. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 05:06Cesium5Hz@aol.comIn a message dated 6/01/00 12:18:03 samuel.frank@yale.edu writes: > Rejection by the publi
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To:
Date:
Thu, 6 Jan 2000 00:06:28 EST
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <32.321d1df7.25a57cd4@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/01/00 12:18:03 samuel.frank@yale.edu writes:
quoted 2 lines Rejection by the public meant depth. And truly hostile> Rejection by the public meant depth. And truly hostile > rejection very likely meant greatness.
Hey, who was it that posted the Einstein quote on greatness being often related to popularist ridicule (or something like that)...can we have that quote again? A_Zed --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 05:46Guai Lo>i saw one number substituted for a letter in his message. oh yeah, total >hacker-speak. >
From:
Guai Lo
To:
laerm ,
Date:
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 23:46:15 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <002e01bf5809$593ec8a0$55a8aec7@p2s9v5>
quoted 4 lines i saw one number substituted for a letter in his message. oh yeah, total>i saw one number substituted for a letter in his message. oh yeah, total >hacker-speak. > >so, being that wells hasn't said anything yet, i feel i must:
So... who the fuck are you?
quoted 1 line the proctologist called. he found your head.>the proctologist called. he found your head.
Ah.. heh.. that's... really clever. Maybe next time you should pull your nose out of some asses, shut the fuck up and let them answer for themselves. I get the impression you are an idiot. and before anyone accuses me of mindless flaming and insults, check the other posts first. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 09:30Simon Walley>From: "adam.florin" <adam@sirius.com> >Subject: Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador
From:
Simon Walley
To:
Date:
Thu, 06 Jan 2000 01:30:43 PST
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <20000106093043.94343.qmail@hotmail.com>
quoted 7 lines From: "adam.florin" <adam@sirius.com>>From: "adam.florin" <adam@sirius.com> >Subject: Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site > >to someone >like myself who was too young during most of the electronic music >revolution, _generation ecstacy_ was a comprehensive history of electronic >music, a good way to catch up quick.
Sure. But its a skewed history - Reynolds bias against Detroit techno and its' influence is hard to fathom. I'd reccomend Dan Sickos _Techno Rebels_ book for a background on how techno started. I'd argue that Detroit techno was one of the main forces behind IDM, especially here in the UK (check ART, B12, some Warp and Rephlex releases, etc.). That influence has shifted to a wider scale now but when the IDM list first started, it encompassed a great deal of Detroit techno and Detroit influenced releases (probably up until the point the 313 list started). || [CiM] || cim_@hotmail.com || - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 15:32adam.florinto Simon Walley.... >>to someone >>like myself who was too young during most of the electr
From:
adam.florin
To:
Date:
Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:32:01 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
Reply to:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <v04003a02b49a651365e6@[207.44.229.204]>
to Simon Walley....
quoted 8 lines to someone>>to someone >>like myself who was too young during most of the electronic music >>revolution, _generation ecstacy_ was a comprehensive history of electronic >>music, a good way to catch up quick. > >Sure. But its a skewed history - Reynolds bias against Detroit techno and >its' influence is hard to fathom. I'd reccomend Dan Sickos _Techno Rebels_ >book for a background on how techno started.
i've been reading sicko's book... the opening chapters only complain about techno's not being mainstream music, and i fast grew bored with it. besides, have you even read _generation ecstacy_ ? obviously not. the book OPENS with a quote by derrick may, and the whole first chapter is largely about the early-80's detroit techno scene ! do your homework ! .af. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 14:51jeff shoemaker>>to someone >>like myself who was too young during most of the electronic music >>revolut
From:
jeff shoemaker
To:
Simon Walley
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 6 Jan 2000 08:51:35 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <200001061451.IAA14253@mw2.texas.net>
quoted 8 lines to someone>>to someone >>like myself who was too young during most of the electronic music >>revolution, _generation ecstacy_ was a comprehensive history of electronic >>music, a good way to catch up quick. > >Sure. But its a skewed history - Reynolds bias against Detroit techno and >its' influence is hard to fathom. I'd reccomend Dan Sickos _Techno Rebels_ >book for a background on how techno started.
Generation Ecstacy was about rave. Techno Rebels was about techno. two different things entirely. Dan Sicko makes this point again and again in his book. -------------- 1642 try 621 -------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-01-06 15:22Simon Walley>Dan Sicko makes this point again and again in >his book. My point was that using the Reyn
From:
Simon Walley
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Date:
Thu, 06 Jan 2000 07:22:43 PST
Subject:
Re: (idm) simon reynolds blurb on matador site
permalink · <20000106152243.38890.qmail@hotmail.com>
quoted 2 lines Dan Sicko makes this point again and again in>Dan Sicko makes this point again and again in >his book.
My point was that using the Reynolds book as a history lesson for IDM is missing a lot of the picture and that techno played a big part in the IDM past (esp. the UK) - therefore checking Dan Sickos book is IMO a good thing. IDM is pretty interesting as a genre because currently, it seems to bear little or no resemblence to the tracks that formed it in the first place. || [CiM] || cim_@hotmail.com || - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org