IDM Mailing Archive

thanks to all replied. . .dave,dana,and pete i put DAT in DERE to pull out some e-mail wallflowers. . .pete you are right ORBITAL is live. . .(to what extent, who knows). . .and also true is the fact that their set in MA and NY were strikingly similar. . .and you hit the nail on the head (abbreviated words below) when you said. . .

quoted 1 line if orbital played entirely new material. . .their listeners would. . .be mudd.

>if orbital played entirely new material. . .their listeners would. . .be mudd.

although i highly doubt that they could ever do that. . .as you said

quoted 1 line demanding. . .orbital. . .be . . .different on each stop . . .is a bit much

>demanding. . .orbital. . .be . . .different on each stop . . .is a bit much

(and i wouldn't demand them to be as such) the plain fact remains that rich pulls it off everynight. . .and he uses the same equipment in every city. . .(as does orbital/moby/vapor). . . and i thought that that is quite noteworthy. . .(especially *intelligent*) the question i guess we should be addressing is why can HE pull it off and not the rest? there is no *rule* keeping any of the other performers from pulling it off. . .aside from their own talents and what they want the crowd to hear and ultimately remember about their *live performance*. . .dance music *bands* tread a fine line when they choose to go *live* and it is clear to see the difference between how orbital/et al and rich approach the task at hand my largest disagreement with pete involves his use of the word

quoted 1 line unthemeatic (sik)

>unthemeatic (sik)

having the ability to play something as ambient and beautiful as THA directly after the bonecrushing acid of J9 in my ears is far from unthematic i would use the words musically diverse. . .his diversity is an inspiration and now pete .. . .really. . .

quoted 1 line grind belt sanders. . .and the fans would. . .yell how great it was

>grind belt sanders. . .and the fans would. . .yell how great it was

can you blame fans for appreciating a music maker who is taking giant steps in a genre of music that for the most part is wallowing in mediocrity and starving for creative energy. . . aphex fans should be commended for their acceptance of the polyrythmic and syncopated beats. . .and then there's the bass good day. . .tp

Next time in English please TeeP, I had a hell of a time trying to. . .decipher . . .your. . . point:

quoted 2 lines demanding. . .orbital. . .be . . .different on each stop . . .is a bit much

> >demanding. . .orbital. . .be . . .different on each stop . . .is a bit much > (and i wouldn't demand them to be as such)

Then what are your demands? You seemed rather upset that they played the same show for you at a second stop.

quoted 3 lines the plain fact remains that rich pulls it off everynight. . .and he uses the

> the plain fact remains that rich pulls it off everynight. . .and he uses the > same equipment in every city. . .(as does orbital/moby/vapor). . . > and i thought that that is quite noteworthy. . .(especially *intelligent*)

Nobody is arguing with that.

quoted 5 lines my largest disagreement with pete involves his use of the word

> my largest disagreement with pete involves his use of the word > >unthemeatic (sik) > having the ability to play something as ambient and beautiful as THA > directly after the bonecrushing acid of J9 in my ears is far from unthematic > i would use the words musically diverse. . .his diversity is an inspiration

His _diversity_ has nothing to do with the fact that the majority of Rich's tracks is a lot of noodling around. Not that I don't like noodling around, he does it well, but that is where there isn't a THEME. Right now, I can't put any of Analogue Bubblebath 3 in my head except for Track 8. The rest is just a blur. Whether or not Rich chooses to dump one sequence or another is up to him, but it is a lot easier for him to place something entirely unrecognizeable in front of an audience and succeed. Short of noisy analogs, Rich doesn't have an identity. Place three new tracks in front of my ears and I'll be able to tell you who is Orb, who is Orbital, and who is Orbit. But whether or not Rich is playing .215061 or Quixote, I'm afraid I'm at a loss.

quoted 5 lines and now pete .. . .really. . .

> and now pete .. . .really. . . > >grind belt sanders. . .and the fans would. . .yell how great it was > can you blame fans for appreciating a music maker who is taking giant steps > in a genre of music that for the most part is wallowing in mediocrity and > starving for creative energy. . .

This is your opinion. These fans who diefy Rich make me sick. I'm just getting over listening to Strange Cargo III for the umpteenth time this week and I can hardly call it mediocre. Before that, I listened to the Sandoz and Effective Force albums and both are above anything I've heard out of Rich since AB3. J9! J9! God, it isn't that great of a masterpiece. It isn't that great period. I've seen just as many people who weren't familiar with Aphex post reviews of the "See The Light" tour and state that he sucked. It seems only his fans are able to "recognize" his brilliance.

quoted 2 lines aphex fans should be commended for their acceptance of the polyrythmic and

> aphex fans should be commended for their acceptance of the polyrythmic and > syncopated beats. . .and then there's the bass

Aphex fans should open their ears to something besides Aphex. You're almost as bad as top-40 fans who can't understand anything besides what they are fed on the radio. Anything from Rephlex is good enough for you, even when it isn't Rich. Did "Indicator Red" become trash after you found out that it was Kosmik Kommando?

Pete ... I just read your reply to the guy who absolutely 'loved' Aphex Twin. While I agree with many of your points about Richard's 'noodling', I have to at least throw in my two cents worth. I readily agree that Aphex stuff sounds alike from one tune to the next, but I don't like your analogy comparing Orb/Orbital/Orbit to Afx. As an Afx fan, I can tell the difference between AFX songs but have a hard time discerning Orb songs. If you were to correctly conclude your analogy you would have said that you can tell the difference between The Orb, Orbital, Orbit AND Aphex Twin. Whether you can tell the Afx tunes apart is an entirely different question. I assumje you have listened to a lot of Afx 'cause you purchase large amounts of stuff weekly. (At least I think you do, going by your reviews) If you took the 'creme' of what he has released - which is perhaps one or two tracks (at the most) off each release - and listened to them, I assure you that you'd find a varied selection of excellent tunes ... some even having a thematic approach! Tunes that spring to my mind are: Analogue Bubblebath 1, Heliosphan, that 'Popcorn' cover, Pacman (Ghost Mix), the first track off Analogue Bubblebath 3, etc ... As a counterpoint to your arguement: What have the Orb done that was 'original' lately? I'd rather leave dub music to people who can do it properly ... eg. Gary Clail and the entire On-U crew. (Sorry, I know they're one of your favourites!) I'm not trying to get under your skin, but just as clasical afficiondos can tell between different performances of Beethoven's 9th, Many Afx fans can tell his tunes apart. Subtle as the differences may sometimes appear to be. ============================================================================== Ian Woodhouse john6920@mach1.wlu.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Comic Strip Of The Year: Mickey's Monkey Spunk Scooter (Viz #61) ==============================================================================

As ever, in defence of the man of magic... I assure you rich doesn't stick on a synth, an 808 and the like to do a track... As far as I'm concerned, Rich is a PURIST, but to this extent is highly experimental. One look at his studio will illustrate this... not an 808 in sight... His talents stem from sounds and their possibilities, not his ability to sequence together something using any old sound he can lay his hands on, ie he is effectivly an idiosyncratic sound engineer. Not wishing to doubt other peoples opinions, I too realise that rich can indeed produce some less than original material (spot the old DX 5th string on many of rich's earlier works). However, he has surpassed himself in continually producing a more diverse range of sounds and feelings. One listen to his contemporary orchestral pieces highlight a side of rich that is new and untarnished, putting the likes of glass and eno in the back of the record collection. Unlike many other *artists*, rich has instigated a continual search for alternative equipment to find new sounds. He doesn't have a flash studio with leather chairs and flashy equipment, he still has his home built speakers of old, and his FZ10 still encompasses most of his sample work (which is minimal anyway). AFX music should be appreciated now while it is there, as already I have noticed that he is loosing his hearing to some extent... eventually leading to him having to feel his sounds... Enjoy your music, but appreciate other artist's abilities. b ............................................................................. ben middleton | pattern avenger | passage violator | frequency defector | rephlex interceptor | | the innovators | | tom (tin tin - e621 global communication), grant (acid sniper queen), j jon | lizzie + carla, ian + liz, hair (techno godess), christina + r, aphex + tha | matt (phew), john (woolly mammouth), safina (chocolatey spread), chris, a+b | markey mark, davey dave, yanka, henry hawkins, janeee, ashiq (hawk), sarita | paul t, sven, samu, vidar, m+s posse, milton, link, intelligent dance music | sammie, sbex, g, kelly + andrew, paul n (prototype 21), jason + issie, bob! | smw (russ), nv, mjb, chris (sog), rwr, katie (peace), ol, laura, todd sines | fluid, brian, cindy, ys, susie, allison, djkc, kirk (art), dave (fatus cat) | bloo sqr, katrin b (the bphex twin), techno.stanford crew, manuel sepulvada | Velocity-9, jeremy, gavin + clair, simon, andrew + lizzie, rd, body release | ed andy ken (black dog), mike (kudos), mike dredd (!kosmik kommando), u-ziq | chris jeffs, synectics, rephlex, evolution, mangoes, spirit levels, *truro* |

TeeP wrote the following... *ORBITAL is live. . .(to what extent, who knows). . .and also true is the fact *that their set in MA and NY were strikingly similar. . .and you hit the nail There is some difficulty in doing a new remix for a structured song on every gig than it is to make a remix of, say an average Aphex tune (I'm not implying Aphex Twin stuff is any worse, it's just usually less structured and easier to manipulate). *the plain fact remains that rich pulls it off everynight. . .and he uses the Hmmm... I don't want to discredit Richard completely, but in my opinion doing highly organised structured pieces that have a build up is much harder than doing cool noises over each other for 5 minutes. Yes, he has some beautiful and some strong structured tracks, but a lot of his stuff (to me) is only meddling around with his equipment. And I agree with Pete, his tunes are absolutely hard to remember some times (and I've listened to quite a bit of them myself). *the question i guess we should be addressing is why can HE pull it off and not *the rest? there is no *rule* keeping any of the other performers from pulling I think what Dana and I wrote has some relevance here, don't you think? *having the ability to play something as ambient and beautiful as THA *directly after the bonecrushing acid of J9 in my ears is far from unthematic Well, you certainly were lucky. I've seen the man live three times and he only played 150+ bpm headsmashing nosebleed. He didn't play any of his ambient tracks nor any of his more structured tracks. Just bang-bang-bang- bang... *can you blame fans for appreciating a music maker who is taking giant steps *in a genre of music that for the most part is wallowing in mediocrity and *starving for creative energy. . . Uh-huh. Some pretty heavy accusations. I mean, there's UR, Hawtin, Dave Angel, Laurent Garnier, Luke Slater, Stefan Robbers, Pete Namlook, Ralf Hildenbeutel, Dan Curtin, Carl Craig, Hartnolls... countless of others who are pushing the boundaries in their own way. Richard James is hardly then only innovator (although he is one I agree with you on that) and hardly the one who is responsible for pushing all the boundaries (there are more to electronic music than just doing free form improvisations and new exciting noises). *aphex fans should be commended for their acceptance of the polyrythmic and *syncopated beats. . .and then there's the bass Yes and AFX fans should also not limit their views just to the makings of one man. Or are you starting a new religion? I am not trying to steal the joy of enjoying Richard James' works from you. I am not trying to discredit him. I just hope people were not so fanatic about what they like and eager to flame everybody who they don't like themselves. think about it, samu -- "Good art is not what it looks like, but what it does to us." - Roy Adzak

quoted 3 lines As far as I'm concerned, Rich is a PURIST, but to this extent is highly

>As far as I'm concerned, Rich is a PURIST, but to this extent is highly >experimental. One look at his studio will illustrate this... not an 808 in >sight...

well, either he sold it, or he has samples of one, or he's spent a lot of time and energy creating sounds that sound *exactly* like 808 sounds then, because there's tons of 808ish sounds on ambient works. i don't have an 808 in my studio either but i've got a very nice set of samples of one... :)

quoted 3 lines One listen to his contemporary orchestral pieces highlight a side of

>One listen to his contemporary orchestral pieces highlight a side of >rich that is new and untarnished, putting the likes of glass and eno >in the back of the record collection.

when is some of this stuff going to be released to the public so we can make up our own minds about it? (it's going to take a LOT to make me put my eno discs in the back the collection!) Jon Drukman jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.