IDM Mailing Archive

Just saw the new VISA commercial on TV with a cartoon worm doing "the worm" and something about recycling. Instead of another damn commercial using Jesus Jones' "Right Here Right Now" or EMF's "Unbelievable" or something else that has been done to death, the commercial uses Afrika Bambaataa & The Soul Sonic Force's "Looking For The Perfect Beat" (produced by Arthur "I'm still makin' music" Baker and John Robie). Refreshing. Andrew -- Andrew Duke scoring/sound design/source http://andrew-duke.com http://myspace.com/andrewduke Cognition Audioworks label [Andrew Duke, Foal, Clinker, Granny'Ark] http://cognitionaudioworks.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Duke Cognition Audioworks"

quoted 4 lines the commercial uses Afrika Bambaataa & The

> the commercial uses Afrika Bambaataa & The > Soul Sonic Force's "Looking For The Perfect Beat" (produced by Arthur "I'm > still makin' music" Baker and John Robie). > Refreshing.

Refreshing?! Because some crappy songs are used in most shite advertising, it legitimizes this ad because they sacrilegiously chose to use a classic to push their Sh!ttybanking?! Fnck that concept and fnck tv advertising. VISA should be applauded for this lameness?! No way. Turn off, turn 'on', tune 'in' and drop out. seek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hey ' leave Andrew Duke alone .. .. he is one nice kinda guy . .. and at least he seems to be paying attention to the outside world . which I'm trying not too ' mostly .. (note to self ' peak oil does not cancel out global warming) anyway ' i thought I would pop into IDM to say hello and let you all know I set up another Speakeasy show over at Psurkit.net http://psurkit.net/show/speakeasy_0X3.php visit for web links to net labels and track list .. and the show ! .. what to rave about this month .. well of course .. AGF & Zavaloka .. perfect sympathy of words and divine glitch. (just listening to AGF live show at Ultrahang Fest 03. actually) Yep ' both brilliant in their own reserve and the combination is to be appreciated for the excellent meeting of ideas and results. Otherwise ' its almost silly to mention Thinner & Autoplate, but I have been going back to the beginning on both sides and spending moments in almost tears ' at the rich trove of sound & scape If you like the minimal dub ' dub . like I do ' be sure to check out Kyoto-sounds .. or more driven edgy clean scrape cut sounds at Unfoundsound .. or getting a little wilder visit yet another net label - one . . As an aside ' I'd been having this debate with a guy at work about minimalism ' german techno and all things good. . being a flat face liar .. he asked me to play him some ' as he was sure in the right context he would you ' know .. . like it .. "i've got an open mind" Anyway ' five minute later (i work in a cafe) I start playing a little user friendly noise ' seeing if he would pick up the vibe ' take the conversation to the next level .. ie. play me more Having been out of the room, he walked back in 'declared the stereo broken to all the customers ' and attempted to reach behind and 'fix' the amp .. Needless to say ' I saved the chap from any disgrace and let the usual sound take over again .. So hence ' I crawl back into my little ether cable and live blissfully between the electrons ' . .. it's a very normal world out there .. If IDM was played all the time ' ... imagine how many stereos would be broken !! viva the evolution ' & much love to IDM .simon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Fnck that concept and fnck tv advertising.

>Fnck that concept and fnck tv advertising.

Yeah, you said it. Nothing makes me tune out of a conversation quicker than when I hear the line "Hey, have you seen that ad for..blahblahblah". Want music? Turn off the tube and turn on the sound system! charles _________________________________________________________________ Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i like commercials when i don't feel inferior to their creators ever tried that? it's REFRESHING Charles Lehmann <twilight_radio@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 1 line Fnck that concept and fnck tv advertising.

>Fnck that concept and fnck tv advertising.

Yeah, you said it. Nothing makes me tune out of a conversation quicker than when I hear the line "Hey, have you seen that ad for..blahblahblah". Want music? Turn off the tube and turn on the sound system! charles _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.

On Mar 30, 2006, at 1:35 AM, seek wrote:

quoted 5 lines Refreshing?! Because some crappy songs are used in most

> Refreshing?! Because some crappy songs are used in most > shite advertising, it legitimizes this ad because they sacrilegiously > chose to use a classic to push their Sh!ttybanking?! > Fnck that concept and fnck tv advertising. VISA should be > applauded for this lameness?! No way.

Obviously someone needs their nap. :P -- Mr. Tangent --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

seek wrote:

quoted 16 lines ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Duke Cognition Audioworks"

> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Duke Cognition Audioworks" > >> the commercial uses Afrika Bambaataa & The >> Soul Sonic Force's "Looking For The Perfect Beat" (produced by Arthur >> "I'm >> still makin' music" Baker and John Robie). >> Refreshing. > > > > Refreshing?! Because some crappy songs are used in most > shite advertising, it legitimizes this ad because they sacrilegiously > chose to use a classic to push their Sh!ttybanking?! > Fnck that concept and fnck tv advertising. VISA should be > applauded for this lameness?! No way.

I stand behind my use of the word "refreshing". TV commercials are not going to go away, ditto for TV commercials using licensed music. I would rather hear good licensed music used than bad. I haven't applauded VISA, I've just said that it is refreshing to hear a good song, like "Looking For The Perfect Beat", used in a TV commercial. Andrew -- Andrew Duke scoring/sound design/source http://andrew-duke.com http://myspace.com/andrewduke Cognition Audioworks label [Andrew Duke, Foal, Clinker, Granny'Ark] http://cognitionaudioworks.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Andrew Duke Cognition Audioworks wrote:

quoted 3 lines TV commercials are not

> TV commercials are not > going to go > away, ditto for TV commercials using licensed music.

you think so? i think the current tv commercial format is going to become obsolete pretty quickly (quickly being a relative term to the span of greater media trends, anyways). we have tivo, tv-on-demand, episode downloads from places like itunes, etc. what are advertisers looking at now? well, the smart ones are figuring out ways to get their blips and billboards into video games, movies, tv shows, etc. the evil ones are trying to push crap to your video-capable cellphones and other wireless devices (boo). haven't you noticed the steady increase of 'product placement' in shows and films, or the increase in phone spam (mostly text-based these days)? yeah. so i'm thinking as ads become more compressed, and more insidiously 'background', the whole licensed music thing will be a smal, small issue, maybe even a non-. all that being said, i agree with the general sentiment: turn off the tv and turn on the stereo/ipod/whatever. listening to the nathan fake lp on border community. most of the comparisons to ulrich schnauss (his name always makes me think of a mouse in a christmas stocking cap) seem to be accurate, though there's more of the wall-of-sound shoegazey element to fake's stuff. not bad, not bad. also, dudes, i tamed that new boar, the plagued swine, up in the eastern plaguelands. charge 6 is teh bombzor. not to mention his rotted-out eye sockets. (what? heh.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Just a quick question: I like Mark Farina and the Mushroom Jazz series, I like Dimitri From Paris (it was Sacre Bleu that set me on this path), I like DJ Spooky, Diplo, the Hotel Costes series. What kind of music is this? IDM? Who else should I be listening to? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

The Buddha Bar series sounds like the right direction, as would some of the Hed Kandi comps. I * On 30 Mar 2006 at 14:32, Joseph Stefani wrote:

quoted 4 lines Just a quick question: I like Mark Farina and the Mushroom Jazz series,

> Just a quick question: I like Mark Farina and the Mushroom Jazz series, > I like Dimitri From Paris (it was Sacre Bleu that set me on this path), > I like DJ Spooky, Diplo, the Hotel Costes series. What kind of music is > this? IDM? Who else should I be listening to?

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hi, I don't know if everybody will feel ok with my words, but my feeling is that IDM is a rather informal and loose family. You must be a cousin from the chill-out branch... Some electro-wave stuff from the 80s is now re-labelled 80s electronica, so why wouldn't these ambient techno grooves be part of the klan? But for the musical remcommendations I won't be of any help I am afraid. Maybe DJ Shadow? and Im not sure. The only one I really know in your list is DJ Spooky, he did quite some collaborations, so maybe head up this way... Cyrill. Joseph Stefani <jstefani@hilltopcds.org> wrote: Just a quick question: I like Mark Farina and the Mushroom Jazz series, I like Dimitri From Paris (it was Sacre Bleu that set me on this path), I like DJ Spooky, Diplo, the Hotel Costes series. What kind of music is this? IDM? Who else should I be listening to? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

LoL I hope idm isn't part of the Klan "===>" <cduneau@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi, I don't know if everybody will feel ok with my words, but my feeling is that IDM is a rather informal and loose family. You must be a cousin from the chill-out branch... Some electro-wave stuff from the 80s is now re-labelled 80s electronica, so why wouldn't these ambient techno grooves be part of the klan? But for the musical remcommendations I won't be of any help I am afraid. Maybe DJ Shadow? and Im not sure. The only one I really know in your list is DJ Spooky, he did quite some collaborations, so maybe head up this way... Cyrill. Joseph Stefani wrote: Just a quick question: I like Mark Farina and the Mushroom Jazz series, I like Dimitri From Paris (it was Sacre Bleu that set me on this path), I like DJ Spooky, Diplo, the Hotel Costes series. What kind of music is this? IDM? Who else should I be listening to? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.

this whole list started from aphex twin it has branched out to include i believe everything Joseph Stefani <jstefani@hilltopcds.org> wrote: Just a quick question: I like Mark Farina and the Mushroom Jazz series, I like Dimitri From Paris (it was Sacre Bleu that set me on this path), I like DJ Spooky, Diplo, the Hotel Costes series. What kind of music is this? IDM? Who else should I be listening to? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

http://plork.cs.princeton.edu/ IDM AS FUCK! _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

the fuckin abc song is exsquisite, almost kraftwerkian i didn't get too much into the other tracks, didn't listen to them all either but that's one hell of a setup nat hawks <natbot@hotmail.com> wrote: http://plork.cs.princeton.edu/ IDM AS FUCK! _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

don't get me wrong some of the other tracks were fair enough aaronas@yahoo.com wrote: the fuckin abc song is exsquisite, almost kraftwerkian i didn't get too much into the other tracks, didn't listen to them all either but that's one hell of a setup nat hawks wrote: http://plork.cs.princeton.edu/ IDM AS FUCK! _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2�/min or less. XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

nat hawks wrote:

quoted 3 lines http://pl

> http://plork.cs.princeton.edu/ > > IDM AS FUCK!

Seems like some academics went through a heckuva lot of trouble to make a suite of really boring computer music. I guess it wouldn't be the first time. w --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

lol come on there is some respect there wallace winfrey <wally@booyaka.com> wrote: nat hawks wrote:

quoted 3 lines http://pl

> http://plork.cs.princeton.edu/ > > IDM AS FUCK!

Seems like some academics went through a heckuva lot of trouble to make a suite of really boring computer music. I guess it wouldn't be the first time. w --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

r u a professional at this? On 3/30/06, aaronas@yahoo.com <aaronas@yahoo.com> wrote:

quoted 27 lines this whole list started from aphex twin

> this whole list started from aphex twin > it has branched out to include i believe everything > > > Joseph Stefani <jstefani@hilltopcds.org> wrote: Just a quick question: I like Mark Farina and the Mushroom Jazz series, > I like Dimitri From Paris (it was Sacre Bleu that set me on this path), > I like DJ Spooky, Diplo, the Hotel Costes series. What kind of music is > this? IDM? Who else should I be listening to? > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX > http://www.kowebdesign.com > > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. >

-- Please note: This e-mail was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message. ---- pete lastname meatsock@gmail.com www.grep-fu.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

you are welcome to pay me Ed Hoc <meatsock@gmail.com> wrote: r u a professional at this? On 3/30/06, aaronas@yahoo.com wrote:

quoted 27 lines this whole list started from aphex twin

> this whole list started from aphex twin > it has branched out to include i believe everything > > > Joseph Stefani wrote: Just a quick question: I like Mark Farina and the Mushroom Jazz series, > I like Dimitri From Paris (it was Sacre Bleu that set me on this path), > I like DJ Spooky, Diplo, the Hotel Costes series. What kind of music is > this? IDM? Who else should I be listening to? > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX > http://www.kowebdesign.com > > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. >

-- Please note: This e-mail was sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message. ---- pete lastname meatsock@gmail.com www.grep-fu.net XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

this one is going to be a real pleasure a night of all live music! everyone on this bill is in top form and represent the electro proper. COPY is on tour right now supporting a new recording on Portland's Audio Dregs label and our good friends Truckasauras will be on hand as well to keep a smile on your face.... ATOLE and KINOKO open........ see you all tuesday! cheers.... Sensory Effect presents OSCILLATE-- tuesdays at The Baltic Room--1207 pine st. Seattle WA 9p $4 with residents ELECTROSECT and GREG SKIDMORE live visuals by SCOTT JAMES (of The Now Device) Tue. April 4 we welcome special guests COPY (live-audio/ dregs-PDX) TRUCKASAURAS (live-fourthCity-SEA) ATOLE (live-audio dregs-PDX) KINOKO (live-fourthCity-SAEA) here's a bit about our guests... COPY Portland, Oregon’s Marius Libman, otherwise known as Copy, busts through the gates with a fully developed and essential sound on his debut LP, Mobius Beard. Combining dense harmonies, delivered in an 8- bit baroque electro style somewhere between Yellow Magic Orchestra and Ratatat, with snap-tight digital beats reminiscent of Dabrye, Copy has created an emotionally affecting sound that doesn’t neglect the dance floor. On Mobius Beard, fuzzy bass synths ride syncopated drum patterns, jump-cutting into ambient spaces and cresting in victorious melodic themes. The result is a crossover work of electronic pop that will appeal to both hardcore sound boys / IDM nerds and the casual listening masses. TRUCKASAURAS is Ryan Trudell ,Adam Swan, and Tyler Swan of fourthCity legends Foscil. in this guise, they are pull out their Gameboys and Midi patching them together with real time use of vintage gear like TB303s, Roland beat boxes and analogue synths to create a fun stew of electro and melodicaly squelchy tones and dance rythms. Complimenting their unique sound is a video montage of WWF wrestling loops depicting not- so- subtle homo-erotic imagry overlaid with Monster Truck footage. Extremely entertaining and hillarious; but don't be fooled by their humor--these boys have a knack for intricate detail and nuance that one would not expect from such a playfull demonstration. ATOLE When Atole (Manny Reyes) performs, he doesn't just sing. He transports a room with a thin stream of falsetto, boom-box noise installations and Spanish folk singalongs. OSCILLATE plays host to the recent Portland transplant's weirdsmobile infusions of IDM, Latino heartache and childlike psychedelia when Reyes unveils his latest release, a three-track "emo-electronic instrumental" EP documenting the Haitian civil war called Trust Napoleon, You Uppity Slaves , tonight. "I'm like a lounge performer from the future," the Las Vegas native told WW . "That sounds totally terrible, but it's true." Just a tip: Reyes also often performs in the middle of the crowd with his eyes closed. KINOKO mixing an affinity for electro beats and 8 bit audio sounds; our local hero brings a playfull sound to the techno massive. Her sound is a heady stew of beat heavy tones and gear heavy sampling with an ear for manic breaks and intricate sound programming --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

that could technically happen Zach Hoon <sorted@saturn5.com> wrote: Andrew Duke Cognition Audioworks wrote:

quoted 3 lines TV commercials are not

> TV commercials are not > going to go > away, ditto for TV commercials using licensed music.

you think so? i think the current tv commercial format is going to become obsolete pretty quickly (quickly being a relative term to the span of greater media trends, anyways). we have tivo, tv-on-demand, episode downloads from places like itunes, etc. what are advertisers looking at now? well, the smart ones are figuring out ways to get their blips and billboards into video games, movies, tv shows, etc. the evil ones are trying to push crap to your video-capable cellphones and other wireless devices (boo). haven't you noticed the steady increase of 'product placement' in shows and films, or the increase in phone spam (mostly text-based these days)? yeah. so i'm thinking as ads become more compressed, and more insidiously 'background', the whole licensed music thing will be a smal, small issue, maybe even a non-. all that being said, i agree with the general sentiment: turn off the tv and turn on the stereo/ipod/whatever. listening to the nathan fake lp on border community. most of the comparisons to ulrich schnauss (his name always makes me think of a mouse in a christmas stocking cap) seem to be accurate, though there's more of the wall-of-sound shoegazey element to fake's stuff. not bad, not bad. also, dudes, i tamed that new boar, the plagued swine, up in the eastern plaguelands. charge 6 is teh bombzor. not to mention his rotted-out eye sockets. (what? heh.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org XOoOXoOoXOoOXoOoXOoOXoOOX http://www.kowebdesign.com --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.

i just dinged 59 in winterspring the other night... rhino }also, dudes, i tamed that new boar, the plagued swine, up in }the eastern plaguelands. charge 6 is teh bombzor. not to }mention his rotted-out eye sockets. (what? heh.) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 4/10/2006 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

ahem Calyxx 49 wizard *cough* Garona. hehe ----- Original Message ---- From: rhino <rhino@the-wall.net> To: idm@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:33:42 AM Subject: RE: [idm] Re: tv ads i just dinged 59 in winterspring the other night... rhino }also, dudes, i tamed that new boar, the plagued swine, up in }the eastern plaguelands. charge 6 is teh bombzor. not to }mention his rotted-out eye sockets. (what? heh.) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 4/10/2006 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org