IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 4 lines I have a different hope -- that more electronic artists would spend as

> I have a different hope -- that more electronic artists would spend as > much time on actually writing music, and less on tweaking the latest > max/msp patch. >

I never liked this argument regarding electronic music (especially idm) because the rules have changed (evolved) so drastically. When I think of good songwriting, it's stuff from decades ago (respect to the Everly Bros, Simon and Garfunkel, Beatles). And even during the rock eras of the 70s-90s, finding a well written song with an original chord progression and an artful, meaningful melody was a challenge. And just because a song was a hit or popular doesn't mean that it was well written. Somewhere along the way (I'm not sure which artists or producers to blame) the emphasis changed from coming up with good songs to coming up with exciting sounds. The song doesn't matter; the sound of the song is what's important. That trend continues today especially with all the computer-aided compositional techniques that are so commonplace in all this music that we all love. My point is that it was never the point or the goal for any of these current electonic artists to write a good song. Sound design and arranging and even mixing will all take priority over classic strong songwriting. You can go find the most gorgeous song by Bola or Boards of Canada or Plaid or whomever and it still wouldn't qualify as a good song by traditional standards. I have a similar argument on why almost all classical music post Beethoven is crap, but I'll save that one for another list. np: VSnares Shiver in Eternal Darkness

-----Original Message----- From: Albers, Brian [mailto:BAlbers@premiereradio.com] Sent: 2004 m. rugsėjo 8 d. 00:33 To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [idm] radioheadtronica

quoted 4 lines I have a different hope -- that more electronic artists would spend as

> I have a different hope -- that more electronic artists would spend as > much time on actually writing music, and less on tweaking the latest > max/msp patch. >

I never liked this argument regarding electronic music (especially idm) because the rules have changed (evolved) so drastically. When I think of good songwriting, it's stuff from decades ago (respect to the Everly Bros, Simon and Garfunkel, Beatles). And even during the rock eras of the 70s-90s, finding a well written song with an original chord progression and an artful, meaningful melody was a challenge. And just because a song was a hit or popular doesn't mean that it was well written. Somewhere along the way (I'm not sure which artists or producers to blame) the emphasis changed from coming up with good songs to coming up with exciting sounds. The song doesn't matter; the sound of the song is what's important. That trend continues today especially with all the computer-aided compositional techniques that are so commonplace in all this music that we all love. My point is that it was never the point or the goal for any of these current electonic artists to write a good song. Sound design and arranging and even mixing will all take priority over classic strong songwriting. You can go find the most gorgeous song by Bola or Boards of Canada or Plaid or whomever and it still wouldn't qualify as a good song by traditional standards. I have a similar argument on why almost all classical music post Beethoven is crap, but I'll save that one for another list. np: VSnares Shiver in Eternal Darkness I think Brian is right. Song writing is that what it is. You can't event a bicycle there. Unique sound alone is not an interesting thing, too. It is all about combining these two things together. You have to be somehow unique if you want to succeed. As for radiohead's electronic music I've heard rumors that they've purchased a lot of warp stuff before writing the album and tried to generate ideas from that. It feels like that for me. Walkman www.sutemos.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I think that writing a pop song is a different thing than coming up with an electronic music piece -- maybe it's unfair of me to criticize people for worrying about sound design more than songwriting, and I enjoy a nice repetetive track as well as the next guy. My problem is that I hear SO MUCH MUSIC. Really. And while the really exceptional stuff makes its own rules, there's so much out there that's made by people who mistake aping the sound design and sequencing strategies of the really good artists for being original themselves. But I have a very short attention span, and a low tolerance for people who beat the same dead horse. As an example: running a disco sample through a lowpass filter over a house beat was a cool idea -- for one track. They went and made a whole effing GENRE out of it. Another example: As far as I'm concerned, everyone besides Kit Clayton needs to STEP OFF on the Max/MSP wanking, because he's got it completely on lock. I guess I'm just tired of so much mediocre music coming out. And I'm not naming names... On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:55:10 +0300, Walkman <walkman@sutemos.net> wrote:

quoted 38 lines -----Original Message-----

> > -----Original Message----- > From: Albers, Brian [mailto:BAlbers@premiereradio.com] > Sent: 2004 m. rugsėjo 8 d. 00:33 > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [idm] radioheadtronica > > > I have a different hope -- that more electronic artists would spend as > > much time on actually writing music, and less on tweaking the latest > > max/msp patch. > > > > I never liked this argument regarding electronic music (especially idm) > because the rules have changed (evolved) so drastically. When I think of > good songwriting, it's stuff from decades ago (respect to the Everly Bros, > Simon and Garfunkel, Beatles). And even during the rock eras of the 70s-90s, > finding a well written song with an original chord progression and an > artful, meaningful melody was a challenge. And just because a song was a hit > or popular doesn't mean that it was well written. > > > I think Brian is right. Song writing is that what it is. You can't event a > bicycle there. Unique sound alone is not an interesting thing, too. It is > all about combining these two things together. You have to be somehow unique > if you want to succeed. > > As for radiohead's electronic music I've heard rumors that they've purchased > a lot of warp stuff before writing the album and tried to generate ideas > from that. It feels like that for me. > > Walkman > www.sutemos.net > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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ok....I see where you going, but max is an instrument just like a bass or saxophone....there are people who play it well and people who dont. how are you able to identify "max wanking" and know that its not mpc or reaktor "wanking"? 8 ) Huntley --- Kent Williams <chaircrusher@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 6 lines Another

> Another > example: As far as I'm concerned, everyone besides > Kit Clayton needs > to STEP OFF on the Max/MSP wanking, because he's got > it completely on > lock.

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quoted 8 lines But I have a very short attention span, and a low tolerance for people

> > But I have a very short attention span, and a low tolerance for people > who beat the same dead horse. As an example: running a disco sample > through a lowpass filter over a house beat was a cool idea -- for one > track. They went and made a whole effing GENRE out of it. Another > example: As far as I'm concerned, everyone besides Kit Clayton needs > to STEP OFF on the Max/MSP wanking, because he's got it completely on > lock.

You my friend... have just nailed the entire problem w/ electronica. if i could only listen to kit clayton I could die happy. Although the V. Delay stuff is good too. peace, a --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I think idm artists should focus more on the music & melody versus glitches, dsp, etc. I really feel that most of the idm coming out pretty much all sounds the same, so there's no reason for me to go out and buy it. I'd be more happy with Radiohead making more electronic influenced tunes than 90% of the idm I hear. I think a lot of the idm artists are pretty weak musically so they have to rely on tricks to make the music less boring. --- Kent Williams <chaircrusher@gmail.com> wrote:

quoted 35 lines I think that writing a pop song is a different thing

> I think that writing a pop song is a different thing > than coming up > with an electronic music piece -- maybe it's unfair > of me to criticize > people for worrying about sound design more than > songwriting, and I > enjoy a nice repetetive track as well as the next > guy. > > My problem is that I hear SO MUCH MUSIC. Really. And > while the really > exceptional stuff makes its own rules, there's so > much out there > that's made by people who mistake aping the sound > design and > sequencing strategies of the really good artists for > being original > themselves. > > But I have a very short attention span, and a low > tolerance for people > who beat the same dead horse. As an example: > running a disco sample > through a lowpass filter over a house beat was a > cool idea -- for one > track. They went and made a whole effing GENRE out > of it. Another > example: As far as I'm concerned, everyone besides > Kit Clayton needs > to STEP OFF on the Max/MSP wanking, because he's got > it completely on > lock. > > I guess I'm just tired of so much mediocre music > coming out. And I'm not naming names...

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I totally agree. There has definitely been a tendency towards sound design over melodic or compositional production in a lot of IDM. I don't hear too much of anything 'raw' anymore. Everyone new out there is very polished and sparkly, while lacking that body and warmth a lot of my favorite electronic music has at its core. Did anyone care that there was blatant peaking and production errors in a lot of Aphex Twin's earlier music? No, the melodies were amazing. There is definitely a lack of new artists seeking the melodic means to an end, rather than the textural one. A good example is Kettel, his musical output is very unpolished from a mixing/sound design perspective, yet his melodies and structure are not only warm and engaging, but have a style. You don't hear too many newer artists with a distinct melodic style in IDM anymore. -mark Def Con 1 wrote:

quoted 71 lines I think idm artists should focus more on the music &

>I think idm artists should focus more on the music & >melody versus glitches, dsp, etc. I really feel that >most of the idm coming out pretty much all sounds the >same, so there's no reason for me to go out and buy >it. > >I'd be more happy with Radiohead making more >electronic influenced tunes than 90% of the idm I >hear. > >I think a lot of the idm artists are pretty weak >musically so they have to rely on tricks to make the >music less boring. > >--- Kent Williams <chaircrusher@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>I think that writing a pop song is a different thing >>than coming up >>with an electronic music piece -- maybe it's unfair >>of me to criticize >>people for worrying about sound design more than >>songwriting, and I >>enjoy a nice repetetive track as well as the next >>guy. >> >>My problem is that I hear SO MUCH MUSIC. Really. And >>while the really >>exceptional stuff makes its own rules, there's so >>much out there >>that's made by people who mistake aping the sound >>design and >>sequencing strategies of the really good artists for >>being original >>themselves. >> >>But I have a very short attention span, and a low >>tolerance for people >>who beat the same dead horse. As an example: >>running a disco sample >>through a lowpass filter over a house beat was a >>cool idea -- for one >>track. They went and made a whole effing GENRE out >>of it. Another >>example: As far as I'm concerned, everyone besides >>Kit Clayton needs >>to STEP OFF on the Max/MSP wanking, because he's got >>it completely on >>lock. >> >>I guess I'm just tired of so much mediocre music >>coming out. And I'm not naming names... >> >> > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > >

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Def Con 1 wrote:

quoted 5 lines I think idm artists should focus more on the music &

> I think idm artists should focus more on the music & > melody versus glitches, dsp, etc. I really feel that > most of the idm coming out pretty much all sounds the > same, so there's no reason for me to go out and buy > it.

Go back and listen to the old-skool (heh) original Artificial Intelligence series from Warp. That's what I've been doing... Also most of the stuff from Suction Records is quite nice. (But that's probably old news.) -JimG -- from jimg via yojimg.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org