IDM Mailing Archive

[jon's opinions of various warp releases...]

quoted 7 lines compilation - excellent

> compilation - excellent > polygon window - very good > black dog - mostly shite > b12 - mostly shite > fuse - mostly shite > speedy j - excellent > autechre - haven't heard it yet

I keep on wondering why people are so gung-ho about Warp, especially when the Beyond Records compilations are so much better. Let's take a look... ambient dub volume 1: really excellent ambient dub volume 2: quite excellent ambient dub volume 3: pretty darn excellent

my esteemed roommate sez:

quoted 2 lines I keep on wondering why people are so gung-ho about Warp, especially when the

>I keep on wondering why people are so gung-ho about Warp, especially when the >Beyond Records compilations are so much better. Let's take a look...

to be fair to Warp, i've been listening to Rhythm Invention's album (which is on Warp) quite a bit recently and I think it's Largely Really Quite Excellent. but it's not part of the artificial intelligence series... which just goes to show... something... /jon

[re: The WARP AI series, except the Speedy J album :) ] *right, well, that's *my* point - this is not fresh, exciting and new. *it's old stuff being done again. i've got no problem with that, on *its own... i just wish people would realize that this is just a *celebration of old stuff rather than some grand innovation. Ok, here's my pov: There does not exist a collective musical consciousness in our planet. What is fresh and new in Singapore is old news in Honolulu, what is phat shit in Detroit sounds like garbage in Koln, etc. I would argue that nobody on this list has heard the dance sound of all the remote places in this world. For me Detroit is in many ways 'fresh', because I mostly missed the first wave and because it is so clearly different from the hardcore movement of two years back (which almost killed my interest in techno). *i don't understand how being excited by the chord changes & melody is *compatible with it being awkward to listen to. i mean, i've got *plenty of keyboards, i can play lush melodies and chords all day long. Please put them on vinyl and send them over here! You'd make many people happy :) *another apparent contradiction: how can going back to old stuff be "a *cool change"? i don't get it. If you haven't heard something for a long time it may sound 'fresh' or timely again, don't you think. Besides, I don't think B12 is a just a rip off from old Detroit stuff, they do have their own style. *total agreement - fresh being the key word. when have you ever heard *anything even remotely like R2D2? innovation!! I'd argue that anyone can make blips and blurps and cool sounds. I have two friends who make nothing but that. That isn't anything fresh for *me*, but I do like the track nevertheless. Freshness isn't everything after all. *but i wish there had been more innovative stuff like speedy j and less Jon, can you tell us a bit more of what you think is innovative. I'm starting to be very curious :) peace, samu -- "Computer: a million morons working at the speed of light." - David Ferrier

mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim) writes:

quoted 2 lines What was the most recent album or compilation that you've bought that you

>What was the most recent album or compilation that you've bought that you >actually enjoy listening to all the way through?

Innovative or not, I like 'Ginger' quite a bit. The Sandoz album also gets high marks. 'Dreamfish' too. These will probably end up being my favorite albums of the year, unless something I have on order turns out to be spectacular (like maybe Bandulu). C. -- (chris.hilker) cspot@cats.ucsc.edu

quoted 4 lines For me Detroit is in many ways 'fresh', because I

>For me Detroit is in many ways 'fresh', because I >mostly missed the first wave and because it is so clearly different from >the hardcore movement of two years back (which almost killed my interest >in techno).

that's fine but i don't see any reason to keep saying that the AI stuff is New and Innovative and Original... just because most people are ignorant of the original Detroit records doesn't mean we should change history to hail Black Dog & co as the people that invented that sound.

quoted 6 lines *i don't understand how being excited by the chord changes & melody is

>*i don't understand how being excited by the chord changes & melody is >*compatible with it being awkward to listen to. i mean, i've got >*plenty of keyboards, i can play lush melodies and chords all day long. > >Please put them on vinyl and send them over here! You'd make many people >happy :)

i'm working on it, really...

quoted 6 lines *total agreement - fresh being the key word. when have you ever heard

>*total agreement - fresh being the key word. when have you ever heard >*anything even remotely like R2D2? innovation!! > >I'd argue that anyone can make blips and blurps and cool sounds. I have >two friends who make nothing but that. That isn't anything fresh for *me*, >but I do like the track nevertheless. Freshness isn't everything after all.

the point about Speedy J is that he not only manages to come up with "blips and blurps" but he puts them into really great tracks... I keep coming back to R2D2, but it really is one of the most creative tracks I've heard all year - a lovely melody and excellent crisp production.

quoted 4 lines *but i wish there had been more innovative stuff like speedy j and less

>*but i wish there had been more innovative stuff like speedy j and less > >Jon, can you tell us a bit more of what you think is innovative. I'm starting >to be very curious :)

seefeel, psychick warriors ov gaia, future sound of london/amorphous androgynous, speedy j, eat static, banco de gaia, higher intelligence agency, another fine day, material, freaky chakra, single cell orchestra, horizon 222, exist dance records, biosphere... just for starters. Jon Drukman jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

quoted 4 lines There have been a couple of tracks on each that

> There have been a couple of tracks on each that > I've liked, but I don't think one gained much by having a whole double > album's worth of music. Others seem to feel the same when I play them > trance albums though...

I've been finding that this happens with a lot of albums and compilations that I buy. So I'll ask a general question to the list... What was the most recent album or compilation that you've bought that you actually enjoy listening to all the way through? For me, I'd have to say it would be either the Exist Dance compilation "Transmitting From Heaven" or the Beyond Records compilation "Ambient Dub Volume 3".

*that's fine but i don't see any reason to keep saying that the AI *stuff is New and Innovative and Original... just because most people *are ignorant of the original Detroit records doesn't mean we should *change history to hail Black Dog & co as the people that invented that *sound. I think you missed my point (because I formulated it so badly). What I were saying was that what is innovative to you may not be innovative to me and vice versa. There must be people from even classical jazz background saying that Detroit wasn't original in the first place. What does is matter if something has been done before if one is able to breath new life into that old thing? But hey, it looks like I'm arguing just for arguments sake .) *the point about Speedy J is that he not only manages to come up with *"blips and blurps" but he puts them into really great tracks... I keep Yes he does do great tracks, but are those great tracks also structurally and musically (and I'm exluding sounds here) innovative and ground breaking? I think this search for innovativeness has gone too far already; is that really the only thing to look for in new acts? Following the path of extreme innovativeness search: *seefeel, mbv rip-offs *psychick warriors ov gaia, electronic music wizos from the 70's will want their royalties! *future sound of london/amorphous androgynous, The future sound of London? More like the sound bank of london... *speedy j, a detroit rip off *eat static, folk singers will want their royalties... *banco de gaia, They've found a sampler. So? *material, Dub in, Dub out. *freaky chakra, House? Good grief... *horizon 222, Not another earth band with recurring themes and sample loops. *exist dance records, Let's sample Star Trek. Let's make it innovative and original :) So Jon, what I'm trying to say is that we perceive this stuff differently and the what is innovative differs so much from person to person that hardly anybody can claim to have all the hottest innovative tunes. Still, I admit that this is IDM, but I think there is more to intelligence than just originality. What do others think? peace, samu PS This is not a flame nor is this the truth. And oh yes, I do like H222, material, Seefeel, Eat Static, etc. Hell, I even have records by them! :) -- "There is nothing in this world consistent, except inconsistency." - whoever

quoted 3 lines I think you missed my point (because I formulated it so badly). What I were

>I think you missed my point (because I formulated it so badly). What I were >saying was that what is innovative to you may not be innovative to me and >vice versa.

right, and i'm saying that we shouldn't fall for that argument because ignorance of history is no excuse.

quoted 2 lines What does is matter if something has been done before if one is able

>What does is matter if something has been done before if one is able >to breath new life into that old thing?

like i said, i have no problems with that, but my original complaint was prompted by the fact that most people seem to think that all these detroit clone bands *are* original. i'm just trying to clear the air on that point.

quoted 1 line But hey, it looks like I'm arguing just for arguments sake .)

>But hey, it looks like I'm arguing just for arguments sake .)

welcome to usenet, please check to make sure your nit-picking gland is functioning properly...

quoted 2 lines Yes he does do great tracks, but are those great tracks also structurally

>Yes he does do great tracks, but are those great tracks also structurally >and musically (and I'm exluding sounds here) innovative and ground breaking?

yeah, i'd say so, bar a few tracks on "ginger" that are pretty standard.

quoted 2 lines I think this search for innovativeness has gone too far already; is that

>I think this search for innovativeness has gone too far already; is that >really the only thing to look for in new acts?

of course not, i never said it was, but when people start hailing bands that are obviously ripping off the past as original then i feel compelled to point out their error and mention some *really* original bands.

quoted 1 line Following the path of extreme innovativeness search:

>Following the path of extreme innovativeness search:

i've deleted all your allegedly "humourous" comments... i think i've presented my argument too many times now. here's the reader's digest version. clip it and keep it near your terminal: * there is nothing wrong with working in an established style * i get upset when people who are clearly working within an established style are hailed as groundbreakers and i tend to post that fact. deal with it. Jon Drukman jdrukman%dlsun87@oracle.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence.

Jon Drukman writes:

quoted 4 lines the point about Speedy J is that he not only manages to come up with

>the point about Speedy J is that he not only manages to come up with >"blips and blurps but he puts them into really great tracks... I keep >coming back to R2D2, but it really is one of the most creative tracks >I've heard all year - a lovely melody and excellent crisp production.

"R2D2" and "Jackpot" sound like two tracks that Kraftwerk forgot to put on vinyl. Good stuff anyway. Frank Zappa died a couple of days ago. A true innovator (even though I never had a clue of what he was trying to do). - chris@minsk.docs.uu.se

At 10:43 AM 12/6/93 -0800, Michael Wertheim wrote:

quoted 3 lines What was the most recent album or compilation that you've bought that you

>What was the most recent album or compilation that you've bought that you >actually enjoy listening to all the way through? >

I'd say both New Electronica (the second one, even though it says vol. 1) and "Colourform" by Higher Intelligence agency are both consistently excellent through and through. Joe ----------(Joe Rice)--------------------------(they entered the vortex)-------- -----(ambient@netcom.com)------------------(and the dreams became reality)-----

quoted 5 lines mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim) writes:

> > mw@sybase.com (Michael Wertheim) writes: > > >What was the most recent album or compilation that you've bought that you > >actually enjoy listening to all the way through?

Well, I haven't bought any compilations of late, so i would have to say that Transmitting From Heaven would do it for me...I was also just given the UFOrb live album with the Patterns and Textures soundtrack (don't flame me for being hopelessly behind, please) and that is currently making great ambience for my apartment... Tamara

Speaking of Dreamfish, it might see a domestic release next year. Instinct is working on it. Mike J. Brown _ ___ ______________Approach and Identify ............................................................................... Ambient Music Survey: FTP or Gopher techno.stanford.edu. Contributions needed!

quoted 2 lines I was also just given the UFOrb live album with the Patterns and Textures

> I was also just given the UFOrb live album with the Patterns and Textures > soundtrack and that is currently making great ambience for my apartment...

You should also get a lava lamp, and incense burner and some beanbag chairs for the true ambient experience.

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Michael Wertheim wrote:

quoted 12 lines There have been a couple of tracks on each that

> > > There have been a couple of tracks on each that > > I've liked, but I don't think one gained much by having a whole double > > album's worth of music. Others seem to feel the same when I play them > > trance albums though... > > I've been finding that this happens with a lot of albums and compilations > that I buy. So I'll ask a general question to the list... > > What was the most recent album or compilation that you've bought that you > actually enjoy listening to all the way through? >

i like the novamute comp : "vresion 1.1" the R&S pieces: "order to dance v.4" and the plastic man album all night , all nice andy@howdy.wustl.edu * . * \ / * /_\ * / -( )- * |~ /~ / \strOboy / \ * --o-- / _/ _|

Without wanting to sound condemnatory of Samu (since he did say he liked them!), I've got to quibble with this one bit: > Following the path of extreme innovativeness search: > > *seefeel, > > mbv rip-offs While both bands certainly share elements (a fascination with dance/electronics, heavily processed guitars, very hard to catch lyrics), Seefeel are probably the least derivative of any band which came to life under the spell of MBV. While just about everyone else in the shoegazer bunch have retreated to rock, one way or another, Seefeel prefer dance and have happily ditched the concerns of writing "rock songs", as loosely defined. Also, while MBV rely on this wonderfully insane layering and overproduction, Seefeel take a much more minimalist tone. If Kraftwerk were a rock band, they'd be Seefeel. Besides, given that MBV are still miles better than practically any other 'rock' group on the planet, what the hell's wrong with trying to follow in their footsteps? :-) Ned

*What was the most recent album or compilation that you've bought that you *actually enjoy listening to all the way through? Smashing Pumpkins: Siamese Dream And I can dance to it :) UFO's new album and the Shara Nelson debut. And Stevie Be Zet's "Archaic Modulation". I think. peace, samu -- "Computer: a million morons working at the speed of light." - David Ferrier

Thanks to everyone's response to my question last week about an IDM starter set... Last weekend I ran out and bought about ten cd's - most from your suggestions. (PLUS... a friend shared generously, so I have way too much new music to listen to... poor me!) I'm listening to Artificial Intelligence (one) now, and I absolutely love it. I can see why some view it as the cornerstone of IDM. It's amazing that this cd came out in 1992. I'm wondering, do people on the list think it sounds dated? I'd love to hear opinions about this. thx Lisa -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines It's amazing that this cd came out in 1992.

> It's amazing that this cd came out in 1992. > > I'm wondering, do people on the list think it sounds dated? > I'd love to hear opinions about this.

That CD is a time machine. I listen to it only semi-regularly, but every time I do I get the urge to go to the nearest music store and buy all the stuff on there...then I have to look over the wall of music to reassure myself that I do in fact own everything that was ownable from that series...I think...Perhaps not...And I will buy another copy of Incunabula just to be on the safe side...(And only recently did I discover the Basscadet EP on CD? Was this always available?) Some fool stole my Polygon Window CD once. ONCE! Now, I hide my replacement copy in the same strongbox as my Quoth CD single. I will stab (with mechanical pencil) any hands that reach for it. Dated? Hmm. One thing I have noticed about IDM is that if it sounds dated, it's in bad form. That's only my opinion, of course, but really, the only thing that tells me some music was from year X is the writing on the packaging most of the time...My answer to your question then is..."No...It does not sound dated to me. In fact, I frequently forget that I've had the CD for a freaking decade or so." (Then again, I also forget that I've been listening to this sort of music since the 1980s and not just since Plaid CDs started being made (was that yesterday?), that I'm no longer 25 and all sorts of other more or less important things.) MG --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org