IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 12 lines From: aaron@progsoc.uts.edu.au

>From: aaron@progsoc.uts.edu.au >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:25:39 +1100 >Subject: (idm) Politics > >Adam J Weitzman wrote: >> >> I stated earlier this year that I don't buy Muslimgauze >> releases because of his radical politics. > > Sorry to detract from this riveting thread about > CD lengths, but could this be the start of a more > interesting thread... (please explain).

Hi! Basicaly there are many tracks with the word 'jihad' in them ;) I know might be missing some great music there but it seems a bit strange to listen to music from a guy who wants ME D E A D and buried... regards, PS this message reminded of something I wanted to do for a while and that is to try and get a record company I work with to send promos to a young palestenian radio... might just get it going ... it'll be great to see the Chammas marching and waving their scimitars to a cool slaz groove ;) Snow.

Snow said:

quoted 3 lines Basicaly there are many tracks with the word 'jihad' in them ;) I know might

>Basicaly there are many tracks with the word 'jihad' in them ;) I know might >be missing some great music there but it seems a bit strange to listen to >music from a guy who wants ME D E A D and buried...

I'm with ya, Snow! It's hard to accept Bryn Jones' blatantly anti-Israeli views. Especially when he imposes them on the listener by glorifying such atrocities as Black September and the Intifadah within the titles of his albums. While you can argue that Jones isn't an anti-Semite, since the Palestinians are also a Semitic peoples, the Black September massacre wasn't just aimed at Israel - it was aimed at the Jews. There's no divorcing Israel and her politics from the fact that it is/was/always will be a Jewish homeland. Celebrating cold-blooded murder motivated by hate isn't exactly the same as Patti Smith titling a song "Rock n' Roll Nigger," is it? Some of Muslimgauze's music is excellent - especially now that he's discovered Sahko - but why should what we normally call 'hate' be excused as art? You can appreciate Muslimgauze and still find Jones despicable. GuerillaG / 'sabra' at heart.

quoted 9 lines regards,

>regards, > >PS this message reminded of something I wanted to do for a while and that is >to try and get a record company I work with to send promos to a young >palestenian radio... might just get it going ... it'll be great to see the >Chammas marching and waving their scimitars to a cool slaz groove ;) > >Snow. >

The original message was post to the Ambient List. I am cross-posting my reply to the IDM list as there are relevant items here, plus I'm looking for other Muslimgauze fans. If you are a fan, please email me privately. keens@rmit.EDU.AU (Jeremy Keens) writes:

quoted 2 lines re zealot: how bad is the distortion on disc 2 and what is the sound like

>re zealot: how bad is the distortion on disc 2 and what is the sound like >fatah g: wire thought three discs overindulgent, how do you feel.

The distortion on disc 2 is very bad. Still worth getting for disc one though. There is also a limited edition "Zealot" 10" that contains remixes from the 2CD "Zealot". I believe it's limited to 200 copies. As for "Fatah Guerilla", it's a mixed bag. The first disc sounds like recycled material from his earlier material, while disc's two & three creep ever closer to IDM material. The first track on disc 2 shatters my speakers at high volume. Given that this 3CD set will run you about $30, you may want to buy this with caution. I am a big Muslimgauze fan, and I will still point to "Izlamaphobia" and "Vote Hezzbollah" as his best releases on overall variety in sound. "Veiled Sisters" would appeal to ambient fans, although at 2CD's, it runs *way* too long. Brad Nash <bjn@umich.edu> writes:

quoted 3 lines What, specifically, is azzazin like? I recently acquired my first

>What, specifically, is azzazin like? I recently acquired my first >Muslimguaze cd, Return of Black September. I found it used, and didn't >know what to expect, but I'm reely diggin' it.

There are 2 Azzazin's. The first was a CD that sounds unlike any other Muslimgauze CD you've heard: no drum loops! Hot rhythmic waves pulsate for 60+ minutes. After 4 tracks, the idea's become static however. The second "Azzazin" is called "Azzazin 2" and is a colored 10". I have this on order, and have not received it yet. For those interested, there's a Muslimgauze subscription you can get. It's a series of CD's, vinyl, DAT, 12", 10", 7". I believe there are nine releases out now (including "Azzazin", "Fatah Guerilla", "Return Of Black September", "Izlamaphobia", "Deceiver". "No Human Rights" 10", "Azzazin 2" 10', "Zealot" 10"). Email Staalplaat at staal@euronet.nl for more info. Future releases include "Tandoori Dog". Check out the Soleilmoon web page at http://www.soleilmoon.com for more information. With your purchase of "Return Of Black September", you can send Staalplaat a blank DAT, and they will return it with more unreleased Muslimgauze music. I just got mine today, but can't listen to it because I don't have a DAT player. Yet. :> Hope this helps. Paul Rafanello intone@warwick.net

Ok, if anyone wants the patch to enable realaudio player plus 4.01 to record protected files, mail me privately at mailto:akhoobe@tcs.tulane.edu . I thought about it a little bit, and I don't really have any qualms about giving that out to people on here, because you all buy the CDs anyway. Well, unless someone raises an undeniable objection. On a completely unrelated note, has anyone heard the new muslimgauze CD, Jaal Ab Dullah? Does anyone have a review? It's described by the press release as "a wild ride from start to finish, with quake-damaged noisebeats tumbling onto exploding turntables and hip-hop lava flows overwhelming The Quiet Village while Dub Demons do the Funky Monkey on a bed of hot coals" (whatever that last bit is supposed to mean). Sounds like a departure from their usual stuff. I apologize if this has already been discussed. It really sucks that the archives don't work. -ali ---Aaron S Michelson <asm2+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

quoted 4 lines Excerpts from mail: 25-Oct-97 Re: (idm) autechre live .ra.. by "Kevin

> > Excerpts from mail: 25-Oct-97 Re: (idm) autechre live .ra.. by "Kevin > Lewandowski"@vr-n > > I've been searching for a workaround to this forever. As far as I

know,

quoted 1 line it's impossible. Real Audio has built in security so you can't

> > it's impossible. Real Audio has built in security so you can't

download the

quoted 1 line original ra file (if it's from a pnm site). The only way to get

> > original ra file (if it's from a pnm site). The only way to get

it is if

quoted 1 line they allow recording (via software) and you have real player plus.

> > they allow recording (via software) and you have real player plus.

But I've

quoted 3 lines never seen one site that allowed recording.

> > never seen one site that allowed recording. > > Just confirm, I tried recording the audio file using realaudioplus,

and

quoted 5 lines it's protected. Doh!

> it's protected. Doh! > > > Aaron >

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On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 22:19:05 -0800 (PST) ali <shellac@rocketmail.com> writes:

quoted 13 lines On a completely unrelated note, has anyone heard the new muslimgauze

> > > On a completely unrelated note, has anyone heard the new muslimgauze >CD, Jaal Ab Dullah? Does anyone have a review? It's described by the >press release as "a wild ride from start to finish, with quake-damaged >noisebeats tumbling onto exploding turntables and hip-hop lava flows >overwhelming The Quiet Village while Dub Demons do the Funky Monkey on >a bed of hot coals" (whatever that last bit is supposed to mean). >Sounds like a departure from their usual stuff. > > I apologize if this has already been discussed. It really sucks that >the archives don't work. >

what do xpect from a press release...i wouldnt consider it a departure, becuz these elements ("noisebeats", "xploding turntables", "hip-hop lava", "dub demons") have, to me at least, been present in his work in one way shape or form on most of his releases...but, they are more pronounced on this one...i guess he may be trying to become more "accesible"...is it different than his previous work? not to me at least...will he garner some new fans with this? maybe... btw, does anyone know whats going on with the muslimgauze vs. rootsman release? tom w np: moebius, neumeier, engler = cosmic couriers 1 - other places

On Tue, 28 Oct 1997, thomas m weibrecht wrote:

quoted 3 lines btw, does anyone know whats going on with the muslimgauze vs. rootsman

> btw, does anyone know whats going on with the muslimgauze vs. rootsman > release? >

i was wondering that myself, til i found it at a local shop. i'm quite impressed by it. 24 or so tracks (sorry, it's at home right now) averaging about 3 minutes a piece, ranging from dancefloor friendly to excruciatingly lazy dub. i like it quite a bit. mj

i was wondering if anyone out there has any tips on muslimgauze, i.e. hot releases and shit like that. i really like that track on avantgdsm2 and was wondering what some of their other shit sounds like? any good URLs on this matter?

I'm by no means a Muslim Gauze expert, but I tell you what I know...his earlier stuff is all acoustic. It's only lately that things have been released that are electronic in nature. The following tracks I've heard are quite good IMHO: Remixs EP Bandit Queen (from the 12 Golden Greats comp) The track (name escapes me) from the Golden Star remix album (Non Place Urban Field) I've also heard about 6 or 7 other tracks from friends that are all good. I've heard the new album "Blue Persian" or "Mosque" or something like that (don't you like my specificity?) out on Soleil Moon and it's definitely on my want list. Some people can't get into Muslim Gauze because he's pro-Palestianian. I don't know about the other people here, but I try not to let politics effect my music. -Jeremy At 08:38 PM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

quoted 9 lines i was wondering if anyone out there has any tips on muslimgauze, i.e. hot

>i was wondering if anyone out there has any tips on muslimgauze, i.e. hot >releases and shit like that. i really like that track on avantgdsm2 and was >wondering what some of their other shit sounds like? > >any good URLs on this matter? > > > >

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.owt.com/users/conflux c o n f l u x ignotum per ignotius ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At 10:47 PM 11/19/97 -0800, Jeremy Wells wrote:

quoted 7 lines Some people can't get into Muslim Gauze because he's pro-Palestianian. I

> >Some people can't get into Muslim Gauze because he's pro-Palestianian. I >don't know about the other people here, but I try not to let politics >effect my music. > >-Jeremy >

i think that the artist is almost as important as the art itself and if someone whose music i enjoyed supported certain politics or ideologies i could never support them by buying their music, et cetera. this doesn't apply to muslim gauze but just a general statement... - wells oliver : s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu : " an erazor of love "

On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Jeremy Wells wrote:

quoted 15 lines I'm by no means a Muslim Gauze expert, but I tell you what I know...his

> I'm by no means a Muslim Gauze expert, but I tell you what I know...his > earlier stuff is all acoustic. It's only lately that things have been > released that are electronic in nature. The following tracks I've heard are > quite good IMHO: > > Remixs EP > Bandit Queen (from the 12 Golden Greats comp) > The track (name escapes me) from the Golden Star remix album (Non Place > Urban Field) > > I've also heard about 6 or 7 other tracks from friends that are all good. > I've heard the new album "Blue Persian" or "Mosque" or something like that > (don't you like my specificity?) out on Soleil Moon and it's definitely on > my want list. >

i think you mean BLUE MOSQUE, which is not new - it's from '94. RETURN TO THE BLUE MOSQUE, or something to that effect, was recently released, and is a sort of "best of" muslimgauze. no new tracks as far as i know. some of the releases i would recommend are limited to 500 or so, but if you can find them they are well worth the effort. these include: IZLAMAPHOBIA, DECEIVER, and FATAH GUERILLA. the muslimgauze vs rootsman remix disc CITY OF DJINN is quite good as well. happy hunting! mj

To begin: Muslimgauze (Bryn Jones) has a discography the size of Cuba. Well, at least the size of Uwe Schmidt/Atom Heart/Lassigue Bendthaus/etc. I have heard: Remixs, Gun Aramaic, Salaam Alekum Bastard, the new one (Jaal ab Dullah, I think), and one whose name I forget. My favorites are the new one and Gun Aramaic, but Gun Aramaic is not an album to buy if you want a diverse sonic palette. One fucking great song over and over again, essentially. The new one is much more caustic than old Muslimgauze; loses a little of the middle eastern influence in translation but in the end still quite excellent. The others were good too... But anyways: ---Wells Oliver wrote:---

quoted 4 lines i think that the artist is almost as important as the art itself and if

>i think that the artist is almost as important as the art itself and if >someone whose music i enjoyed supported certain politics or ideologies i >could never support them by buying their music, et cetera. this doesn't >apply to muslim gauze but just a general statement...

Well... I don't know if you are just not familiar with Muslimgauze, but he is probably the most directly confrontational musician with his (rather unpleasant) ideology that I have encountered, aside from Boyd Rice. And it could easily be said that Bryn Jones' ideas are even less pleasant than Boyd's... He's pro-palestinian, anti-semitic, and basically supports all the terrorist attacks on Jerusalem. Granted, he lives in England, so he isn't a very effectual supporter, but still. I still buy the records. I also buy records by Death in June, NON, etc. I actually find it interesting listening to music with an immoral ideology. Why, I don't know. --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

Check out http://www.staalplaat.com for Muslimgauze info. In the works: Two limited CD's, Sandtrafikkar and Zurif. Also a large 10 CD set... Paul Rafanello intone@warwick.net Orange County, New York MiniDisc trader

I keep hearing all of this info about what Muzlim Gauze thinks, believes, etc. but I've never seen any of it first hand. Does anybody have some hard core evidence (interviews, etc.) where Muslim Gauze is directly making the statements that everyone says he does? -Jeremy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.owt.com/users/conflux c o n f l u x ignotum per ignotius ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recently have been getting into his stuff. Picked up a few things here and there. Got gun aramaic, beyond the blue mosque and have heard _Farouk Enjineer. Gun aramaic is an interesting subdued cd. It is basically ambient landscapes with a middle eastern flair. There are beats but they seem subdued. I like it quite a bit. Flows nicely. _Farouk Enjineer is very distorted and unlike gun aramaic. I only heard it briefly but it was an interesting listen. I do plan to pick it up. I would have to agree beyond the blue mosque is a good cd. It is experimental and distorted where it should be. There is also a cd called occupied territories which is basically muslimgauze remixed by the likes of nonplace urban field, zoviet france, drome, o yuki conjugate etc... As for the politics, I have to admit that they disturb me. He does not preach them to you <which I respect>. But he does hope that you will research him and find out what he is about. I did just that. I cannot agree with his outlook on the middle east and on what he feels should be done. But unlike other artists the music can be enjoyed without these messages coming across. But part of me definitely questions buying his work because of what he beleives. For more info <including politcs, discography etc..> see: http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/tbennett/Muslimgauze/muslim(N).htm -daniel

I think this Muslimgauze things has got way out of hand, so I'm not going to say that much, just that I think people are in general over-reacting about the politics of him and his releases. Until yesterday I knew nothing about him and I have not heard and do not own any of his music. However, from reading the interviews/articles at the web-site I found nothing utterly mortifying about his comments, and I don't have a huge problem about what is essentially a personal opinion. Politically incorrect, maybe, but there is a huge difference between supporting direct action and actually partaking in it, and let's face it, he's not influencing *anyone* with this stuff. As he himself says, he "does not want to preach". His views are his own and although they may manifest in the artwork of his releases and in interview, I think there are plenty more worthy targets. His CDs sell minimal copies, mostly to people who are intelligent enough to make their own decisions about his politics. The amount of cash he will make from them is negliable, and wont make him enough money to enforce his views in any way shape or form. There's plenty of musicians who are also criminals, people with various religious beliefs or just bigmouths who we may not agree with in person, but it doesn't (and doesn't have to) stop us from liking their music. I can't say I subscribe to Robert Merlak's view that we should totally ignore the views or actions of the person behind the music because at the end of the day you are supporting the artists and reinforcing their views by buying their releases, but there is a line to be drawn, and I think to draw it before Muslimgauze and his politics is pretty ridiculous. Of course, it's a personal decision all the way. Just my humble opinion. gb. -- /TheW i http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/lwtcdi/all/ f o L D o dlr WTC "Let's decompose and enjoy assembling!"

quoted 5 lines that's a pretty sad viewpoint. you've got to realize that by buying

>that's a pretty sad viewpoint. you've got to realize that by buying >people's music you're directly supporting them and any ideologies they >posess. would you really want your money going to someone who supports >the killing of Jews? would you buy a neo-Nazi techno compilation because >it had _cool_ beats?

Well, I own NON CDs, so, well, yeah (ignoring for the moment whether the white power church of satan thing is all a big joke Boyd's playing on us). I am supporting these people with about a buck; in return, I get some excellent music. True, I'm funding the bakesales of the Church of Satan and the white power movement (maybe) with my buck, but frankly, it's only a dollar (prolly less, given gear expenses etc), and I'm not bothered by it in the slightest, because what _I_ am really supporting is the music. And wells, you'd like NON. I'd recommend either the Boyd Rice/Frank Tovey record "Easy Listening for the Hard of Hearing" (someone correct me if that's wrong) - Tovey is definitely not a racist, at least. That record is more rhythmically noisy. NON - Easy Listening for Iron Youth, a kind of "best of" type deal, is great too, but more just plain noise. It's about the bleakest thing you'll ever hear. Pure nothingness. --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

wells wrote :

quoted 5 lines that's a pretty sad viewpoint. you've got to realize that by buying

>>that's a pretty sad viewpoint. you've got to realize that by buying >>people's music you're directly supporting them and any ideologies they >>posess. would you really want your money going to someone who supports >>the killing of Jews? would you buy a neo-Nazi techno compilation because >>it had _cool_ beats?

arthur wrote :

quoted 8 lines Well, I own NON CDs, so, well, yeah (ignoring for the moment whether the

>Well, I own NON CDs, so, well, yeah (ignoring for the moment whether the >white power church of satan thing is all a big joke Boyd's playing on >us). I am supporting these people with about a buck; in return, I get >some excellent music. True, I'm funding the bakesales of the Church of >Satan and the white power movement (maybe) with my buck, but frankly, it's >only a dollar (prolly less, given gear expenses etc), and I'm not bothered >by it in the slightest, because what _I_ am really supporting is the >music.

I found in this thread something interesting... I was wandering why every single musician/group I respect aren't supporting killing Jews, church of satan or any other thing like that... Rob will tell you why ------> BECAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING MUSIC MAKERS !!! ...and they're the dreamers of dreams :-) bye rob np: "cola war" dmx krew

quoted 22 lines that's a pretty sad viewpoint. you've got to realize that by buying

> >that's a pretty sad viewpoint. you've got to realize that by buying > >people's music you're directly supporting them and any ideologies > they > >posess. would you really want your money going to someone who > supports > >the killing of Jews? would you buy a neo-Nazi techno compilation > because > >it had _cool_ beats? > > Well, I own NON CDs, so, well, yeah (ignoring for the moment whether > the > white power church of satan thing is all a big joke Boyd's playing on > us). I am supporting these people with about a buck; in return, I get > > some excellent music. True, I'm funding the bakesales of the Church > of > Satan and the white power movement (maybe) with my buck, but frankly, > it's > only a dollar (prolly less, given gear expenses etc), and I'm not > bothered > by it in the slightest, because what _I_ am really supporting is the > music.

hmm i like NON... you cant really believe a single word that Boyd says... definately not considering he has connections to throbbing gristle ;-) From his music i reckon hes probably a pretty intelligent guy.....i think its pretty tongue in cheek... i mean church of satan indeed... !! id fund the church of the dark one... but not white power.. its no different to the sex pistols wearing swasticas to get a reaction...although im in no way making a comparison between NON and SP! Steev

quoted 5 lines try "veiled sisters" ... two cds of hypnotic loops that play off

> try "veiled sisters" ... two cds of hypnotic loops that play off > against > each other create intricate polyrhythms. just the vaguest hint of the > odd eastern drum or arabic voice. >

"Vampire of Tehran" is really good - Distorted beats, chopped up bits, dubby bass. Bluddy excellent. "Sandtrafikar" - pretty good, haven't had time to really get into it yet, but it's got 5 tracks (I think) and two of the tracks have two mixes - one 'ambient' and one with beats. Recorded in Manchester's Abraham Mosque is says on the sleeve! Both of these are fairly recent. I also picked up "Vote Hezbulah" which is from 93. It's similar but the beats aren't distorted. All top stuff. The web page mentions a subscription service where you get all the standard releases and limited run stuff. Is anyone here on that?

At 09:24 AM 10 - 07 - 1998 +0100, you wrote:

quoted 8 lines try "veiled sisters" ... two cds of hypnotic loops that play off

>> try "veiled sisters" ... two cds of hypnotic loops that play off >> against >> each other create intricate polyrhythms. just the vaguest hint of the >> odd eastern drum or arabic voice. >> >"Vampire of Tehran" is really good - Distorted beats, chopped up bits, >dubby bass. Bluddy excellent. >

I currently possess "Syrinjia" and "Farouk Enjineer." Kia's right; Syrinjia is _the_ shit. I really dig the tracks that have longer vocal loops, especially on side two of Syrinjia. Any recommendations for those more familiar with his work for other works in this vein, by him or others? jeremy[x]axon breeyn[e]mccarney broccoli[fat]cat ================= "Reality is that which, when you stop beleiving in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick In life, he suffered from a sense of unreality, as do many Englishmen. -- "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" by Jorge Luis Borges

On Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:48:50 -0400 Jeremy Axon <yu214547@YorkU.CA> writes:

quoted 12 lines I currently possess "Syrinjia" and "Farouk Enjineer." Kia's right

>I currently possess "Syrinjia" and "Farouk Enjineer." Kia's right; >Syrinjia >is _the_ shit.=20 >I really dig the tracks that have longer vocal loops, especially on >side two >of Syrinjia.=20 >Any recommendations for those more familiar with his work for other >works in >this vein, >by him or others? > >

tandoori dog bhutto ep occupied territories hamas arc return of black september deceiver ep citadel (either the ep or full-length) gun amaraic arab quarter and of course, salaam alekum, bastard tom w np: muslimgauze - one of the dat series _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Can anyone recommend a Muslimgauze release similar to 'Gulf Between Us'? I prefer the ambient to the noisy pieces. thanks.

Any thoughts on the Muslimgauze + Apollon cd released in 1998? I think it was mentioned recently . . .but i can't remember . . . black cover with a blurred white form ... thanks for the feedback ... sean.

Classification of collection(s), various methods I've actually seen: 1. Random ( an I ching approach to a library ). This was on a 2-3000 piece colection of vinyl. I plundered it closely....no order at all that I could see. 2. By spine color ( this was a 10,000 + ) vinyl collection. 3. By predominant instrument(s) played ( a jazz collector friend...this kinda makes sense in a jazz collection. ) 4. A guy I knew arranged his records into piles: "new arrivals" and " to sell" As Poison Idea ( 80's American Hardcore Punk band ) penned, " Record collectors are pretentious assholes" np: Azad ( new Muslimgauze ). I am enough of a fan to always pick the new M-gauze stuff. I'm enough of a critic to get rid of 1/2 of it. This is a keeper. There's only 1,000 and each of the 1,000 CD covers is unique . Idm list friendly... Also : if you dig This Heat, Can, Fela Kuti, Miles ( 70's era ) Davis, Liquid Liquid, African, and dub....*do* check out the new double LP on Leaf, " Last Light" by Eardrum. Not idm, but groovy as fuck. pps: any digesters here having problems? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines np: Azad ( new Muslimgauze ). I am enough of a fan to always pick

> np: Azad ( new Muslimgauze ). I am enough of a fan to always pick > the new M-gauze stuff. I'm enough of a critic to get rid of 1/2 of > it. This is a keeper. There's only 1,000 and each of the 1,000 CD > covers is unique . Idm list friendly...

one of my music suppliers threw thier cd entitled Infidel Xtreme XEP 026 in with my last order as a freebie- really a treat. only got the cd though, no cover/artwork. can anyone provide a tracklist? susan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

man, for a dead guy he sure is prolific. eric --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org