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Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)

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1998-07-20 18:55Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
├─ 1998-07-20 19:03Brian Gause Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
│ └─ 1998-07-21 15:35Christian Stigen Larsen Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
├─ 1998-07-20 20:39Zenon M. Feszczak Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
└─ 1998-07-20 22:06Chaircrusher Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
1998-07-21 04:25eric hill Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
1998-07-21 15:56WARD Giles RE: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
1998-07-21 17:50Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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1998-07-20 18:55nevileb@towers.com>> Is there a good reason for their secrecy, or can I >> assume that it's simply sonic-ins
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Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:55:10 -0400
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Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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quoted 10 lines Is there a good reason for their secrecy, or can I>> Is there a good reason for their secrecy, or can I >> assume that it's simply sonic-insecurity? > > I imagine for the same reason Basic Channel don't give out > their gear list: there's already way too many people biting > their sound already -- why make it any easier? One of the > reasons certain pieces of gear change hands for absurd > amounts is because all too many people seem to think > amassing the same gear as musicians they enjoy will > allow them to make music that sounds like them.
I agree - it's silly to think that buying the same gear as ae or Aphex will make you sound like them. You may be able to recreate sounds they've used, but the writing is a different issue. Having said that, my question remains - why the secrecy? If, in the artistry of creating the tracks, the gear is of *central* importance, I may have to re-assess my feelings towards these artists. How would I feel about a phenomenal painter who refused to tell anyone about the spectacular brush he uses? My estimation of his artistic skills would certainly get smaller. Perhaps electronic music still has a long way to mature. It seems to me that the equipment secrecy is nothing but selfishness and insecurity. It would be ridiculous for Chick Corea to not tell anyone what synths he used on his last album, or for him to not talk about his creative process at all. If the gear list is of such importance, we can only assume that the artists themselves believe their sound can be easily reproduced. If that's the case, maybe what they're doing isn't worthy of the respect we give it. Of course, as somebody else already said, who cares? We know they're the original masters. So what don't they want us to know? bbn
1998-07-20 19:03Brian GauseMy take on this is that, at least to some extent, the gear doesn't matter. Your example is
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Brian Gause
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Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:03:32 -0500
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Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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My take on this is that, at least to some extent, the gear doesn't matter. Your example is a good one because it points out the problem. No one ever asked Picasso about his brushes. Hemingway, I bet, got very few questions about the pencil and paper he used. I doubt Stephen King gets question about the word processor on his box. And, musically, I don't think Mozart or Beethoven often got questions about how they did what they did. If you look to Autechre as artists, what matters is not how they got the sounds or where they come from, but instead, what prompted this sort of view of sound in the first place? What sort of imagination imagines music like this? How do they see the sound they play? That sort of thing. It strikes me that one of the problems here is that some of this stuff is just so cool that you have to wonder 'how did they do that'. Fine...Okay, sure, but we tend to depersonalize some of this stuff and imagine them as two guys hunkered down in a studio somewhere. Somewhere along the way, we've lost the idea that musicians are artists...instead, they're just wacky guys in a basement somewhere. Maybe that's really the way it is, but if we're going to look at them as artists, and compare them to artists, let's go all the way. These aren't just sounds, but artistic representation that aren't to be analyzed in terms of HOW, but instead, why and wherefrom? As a writer, I consider myself an artist. As an artist, I find that what I consider most (and what I get asked most) is what has made me express myself in THIS way? Why writing? Why this style? Why did Joyce decide to use stream-of-consciousness? Why was Picasso driven to paint? Why do Sean and Rob create music in this way and, really, what are we to take from it? I can really find little value, and I think I would feel insulted in their shoes, in answering questions about the tools I use. It would strike me, instead, that the questioner is missing the point of it all. ---brian
quoted 26 lines Having said that, my question remains - why the secrecy?> Having said that, my question remains - why the secrecy? > > If, in the artistry of creating the tracks, the gear is > of *central* importance, I may have to re-assess my > feelings towards these artists. How would I feel about > a phenomenal painter who refused to tell anyone about > the spectacular brush he uses? My estimation of his > artistic skills would certainly get smaller. > > Perhaps electronic music still has a long way to mature. > It seems to me that the equipment secrecy is nothing but > selfishness and insecurity. It would be ridiculous for > Chick Corea to not tell anyone what synths he used on his > last album, or for him to not talk about his creative process > at all. If the gear list is of such importance, we can > only assume that the artists themselves believe their > sound can be easily reproduced. If that's the case, maybe > what they're doing isn't worthy of the respect we give it. > > Of course, as somebody else already said, who cares? We > know they're the original masters. > > So what don't they want us to know? > > > bbn
1998-07-21 15:35Christian Stigen LarsenQuoting Brian Gause (gause@Cadence.COM): | | Why do Sean and Rob create music in this way
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Christian Stigen Larsen
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Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:35:39 +0200
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Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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Quoting Brian Gause (gause@Cadence.COM): | | Why do Sean and Rob create music in this way and, really, what are we to take | from it? I can really find little value, and I think I would feel insulted in | their shoes, in answering questions about the tools I use. Do you get *insulted* if people ask you whether you use a pencil or wordprocessor for writing ? And to a certain degree, your writing *will* depend on whether you use a pencil or a wordprocessor. Think about it. Finally, from a sound engineering point of view, it *very* interesting to know which tools Autechre use for sculpting sounds, and how they do it. On the other hand, if they won't tell us then we can't demand them to do so. -- Christian Stigen Larsen -- http://www.sublevel3.org chrisl@stud.ntnu.no http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~chrisl/
1998-07-20 20:39Zenon M. Feszczak> >Having said that, my question remains - why the secrecy? >Perhaps electronic music stil
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Zenon M. Feszczak
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Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:39:52 -0400
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Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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quoted 2 lines Having said that, my question remains - why the secrecy?> >Having said that, my question remains - why the secrecy?
quoted 3 lines Perhaps electronic music still has a long way to mature.>Perhaps electronic music still has a long way to mature. >It seems to me that the equipment secrecy is nothing but >selfishness and insecurity.
Perhaps - to be generous to the artists - it's the opposite motive. The creators want listeners to pay attention to the resulting music, not to wonder about the process. 3
1998-07-20 22:06ChaircrusherOn Mon, 20 Jul 1998 nevileb@towers.com wrote: > >> Is there a good reason for their secrec
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Chaircrusher
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Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:06:41 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 nevileb@towers.com wrote:
quoted 3 lines Is there a good reason for their secrecy, or can I> >> Is there a good reason for their secrecy, or can I > >> assume that it's simply sonic-insecurity? > >
I don't think they care one way or another actually, if you check the archives I and others posted the gear list for their last swing through the US. Everything they do could be made on that equipment, modulo a few extra studio gizmos. I don't even remember what it was I posted, because it doesn't really matter. What I hear in their stuff is a few basic analogue sounds that don't have any distinct character to suggest a specific synth, and a lot of creative sample mangling. Things like cutting single cycles out of other samples and looping them, recording found sounds, and repeating signal processing functions on a sample until it gets weird. You could do autechre-like music on a very minimal setup, perhaps even a PC with Sound Forge, or a Mac with Sound Edit 16. The actual gear isn't that important.
quoted 2 lines Having said that, my question remains - why the secrecy?> Having said that, my question remains - why the secrecy? >
Again it ISN'T a secret, it's just not that important.
quoted 1 line Perhaps electronic music still has a long way to mature.> Perhaps electronic music still has a long way to mature.
Well I think it's more like Electronic Musicians need to mature. Electronic Music has been around for a long time, and there are plenty of fully realized, mature works out there.
quoted 5 lines It seems to me that the equipment secrecy is nothing but> It seems to me that the equipment secrecy is nothing but > selfishness and insecurity. It would be ridiculous for > Chick Corea to not tell anyone what synths he used on his > last album, or for him to not talk about his creative process > at all.
It would be ridiculous to listen to anything he's produced since about 1973, in my opinion -- your mileage may vary.
quoted 3 lines So what don't they want us to know?> > So what don't they want us to know? >
If you're as famous as Autechre (which isn't very famous actually), then you are going to have to deal with many more people that want a piece of your time than you can possibly satisfy. Trainspotters wanting to know which distortion pedal they use are just a subgenus of all those people. It's primarily a waste of time for them to even bother; and in the interviews I've seen it seemed like they didn't really feel like it was worth spending any time on.
1998-07-21 04:25eric hill> > It seems to me that the equipment secrecy is nothing but > > selfishness and insecurit
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eric hill
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Mon, 20 Jul 1998 21:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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quoted 5 lines It seems to me that the equipment secrecy is nothing but> > It seems to me that the equipment secrecy is nothing but > > selfishness and insecurity. It would be ridiculous for > > Chick Corea to not tell anyone what synths he used on his > > last album, or for him to not talk about his creative process > > at all.
perhaps they're trying to make it difficult for fans to confuse one for the other. nothing i've read of them would lead me to the conclusion that they're being selfish or insecure about it. eric onnow: sweet trip : halica e.p. (darla)
1998-07-21 15:56WARD Giles> | Why do Sean and Rob create music in this way and, really, what are > we to take > | fr
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WARD Giles
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IDM ML
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Tue, 21 Jul 1998 16:56:24 +0100
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RE: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
permalink · <199807211603.RAA05500@gateway1.sema.co.uk>
quoted 10 lines | Why do Sean and Rob create music in this way and, really, what are> | Why do Sean and Rob create music in this way and, really, what are > we to take > | from it? I can really find little value, and I think I would feel > insulted in > | their shoes, in answering questions about the tools I use. > > Do you get *insulted* if people ask you whether you use a pencil or > wordprocessor for > writing ? >
No, I'd just think it's rather strange and they're missing the point of what I'd written.
quoted 4 lines And to a certain degree, your writing *will* depend on whether you use> And to a certain degree, your writing *will* depend on whether you use > a pencil or a > wordprocessor. Think about it. >
Some nosey buggers don't want to know if it's pencil or wordprocessor, they want to know pencil colour, soft/hard-ness, brand and version of wordprocessor etc. It doesn't matter. These people are looking for part of the 'formula' that makes Ae's or whoever's music. It's pointless.. they change the formula with every track - that's what makes them interesting.
1998-07-21 17:50nevileb@towers.com> I can really find little value, and I think I > would feel insulted in their shoes, in a
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Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:50:26 -0400
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Re: Gear (was Re: (idm) Autechre)
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quoted 4 lines I can really find little value, and I think I> I can really find little value, and I think I > would feel insulted in their shoes, in answering questions about the > tools I use. It would strike me, instead, that the questioner is > missing the point of it all.
That's a point of view I hadn't considered, and in that light I can see why they might be hesitant to answer questions. Still, it would be really fun to know more about their process, especially with particular pieces of sound. bbn