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Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch

7 messages · 6 participants · spans 6 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) vvm/speedranch · (idm) vvm/speedranch + dj spooky
1998-06-02 23:29Luke Keenan (idm) vvm/speedranch
1998-06-03 18:24Heatsink Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
├─ 1998-06-03 21:44Dunc Chaplin Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
├─ 1998-06-03 22:59Kelsey Damas Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
├─ 1998-06-04 01:34Luke Keenan Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
└─ 1998-06-08 17:15GamePrg. Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch + dj spooky
1998-06-03 23:19rod a lester Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
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1998-06-02 23:29Luke Keenanhad an entertaining weekend, Speedranch and V/Vm were performing at an all-nighter in shef
From:
Luke Keenan
To:
Date:
Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:29:29 +0000
Subject:
(idm) vvm/speedranch
permalink · <19980602233724.00bdc3c0.in@insight-media.co.uk>
had an entertaining weekend, Speedranch and V/Vm were performing at an all-nighter in sheffield. the phrase to use in these situations is: "it's an interesting space". Another bleeding art/music event, but the focus this time was definitely the music. We got there at about 10. Found the venue purely by luck. An act called 'the veilgudd brothers' serenaded us till about 1 with a collection of fractured tones & noises. exceedingly good, with a lot of live input from the pair. Its very much in the mego style, but less sterile than Farmers Manual. I hope to hear more. Ian ATx also span a few choices cuts. His magazine, Autotoxicity, is due out soon. Its mighty fine, but god knows how you'll get too see a copy, it's a non web publication. Details nearer the event. VVm arrived later, after travelling down from the previous nights work in Sterling, The plan had been to perform a live PA, but a combination of exhaustion, a poor setup, and a suspected hostile crowd led to a dj set instead. But first, Speedranch on the decks. The space was pretty rammed by now, and Winston (Forgemaster) Hazel was pleasing the crowd with a seamless house mix. It seemed a shame to spoil their fun, but Speedy was cajoled into 'clearing the room' -the promoters words. So, a barrage of heavy beats and cut up vocals followed. The room largely cleared in 10 mins. Fair enough, there were two other djs to choose from in the other spaces, but some pillock decided to air his disgust by shouting abuse, turning lights on/off, on/off, pulling cables out etc. this slightly spoiled the enjoyment of the remaining few, who were getting some distorted dark-core and loving it. it took about 20 mins to sort the sound, the top end finally arrived halfway through jega's 'stainless steel drum', which sounded superb rising from out of the noise. V/Vm followed with an eighties mix inna mobile-disco-dave style. The Kids from Fame, The Weather Girls, Lieutenant Pigeon, The Birdie Song, Frank Sinatra and many,many more were inflicted upon a crowd who lapped it up. I swear I saw half of Milli Vanilli vogueing to 'It's raining men', but that may have been sleep deprivation side effects. I also have vivid memories of a large white pitbull roaming round, sniffing crotches. And a headless child in a romper suit, being carried aloft on broad shoulders. Splendid night all round. The latest VVm release is brilliant, a different approach this time. Rough and ready, if you will. Vertiginous. Also picked up: Map One: contaminated by technique - by members of this parish of course. Theres a high standard throughout, and there's enjoyment to be had, but its all reminiscent/derivative of the well known. Its easily said, but I've heard aphex twin, and autechre, and they are difficult to improve upon. So why try? Abuse me if you like, i'll keep listening, this is just first impressions. My expectations were too high i suppose. Jega- type xero. Again, its good, but i wanted more. more tunes. info: pitbull, carbon 60, Intron v,Naem. ziq001 0n planet u. Bannlust- Digital tensions. This i like. despite the lack of tunes, pedestrian pace, and the obvious autechre influences.
1998-06-03 18:24Heatsink-----Original Message----- From: Luke Keenan <lukek@insight-media.co.uk> To: idm@hyperreal
From:
Heatsink
To:
Luke Keenan ,
Date:
Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:24:24 +0100
Subject:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
permalink · <01bd8f1c$d5d4ef00$9d90a6c3@DEFAULT>
-----Original Message----- From: Luke Keenan <lukek@insight-media.co.uk> To: idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org> Date: 03 June 1998 00:44 Subject: (idm) vvm/speedranch
quoted 5 lines Map One: contaminated by technique - by members of this parish of>Map One: contaminated by technique - by members of this parish of >course. Theres a high standard throughout, and there's enjoyment to >be had, but its all reminiscent/derivative of the well known. Its >easily said, but I've heard aphex twin, and autechre, and they are >difficult to improve upon. So why try?
Um...Stuart, help!! I think this was a point Adam raised in his review, that some/most of the tracks were similar to or heavily-influenced by more well known artists. As I can only speak for myself and not the other guys on the CD, I`ll say that I wasn`t trying to improve on any artist`s previous work, but rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what influences they have, and while I`m not going to blatantly steal from another track, I`ll readily use techniques pioneered by others in my own tracks. How original is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. And if, by drawing influences from others I actually branch off and come up with something different/original, then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with something totally original, you`ll end up with something totally shite. I`ll stand by every one of those tracks on Map One and defend them as utterly valid, thoughtful and release-worthy tracks. Some of them I might even think of as <gasp> pretty original. Anyway, it`s nine quid for 16 tracks, so what are you moaning about? :-) <---HEATsink--->
1998-06-03 21:44Dunc Chaplinthis post from "Heatsink" is probably the most interesting thing i've read in a while... >
From:
Dunc Chaplin
To:
Date:
Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:44:12 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
Reply to:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
permalink · <3.0.1.32.19980603174412.00a83a88@is5.nyu.edu>
this post from "Heatsink" is probably the most interesting thing i've read in a while...
quoted 2 lines rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what>rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what >influences they have, and while I`m not going to blatantly steal from
another
quoted 1 line track, I`ll readily use techniques pioneered by others in my own tracks.>track, I`ll readily use techniques pioneered by others in my own tracks.
How i'm not sure if i'm understanding you right, but it has always seemed to me, consciously choosing "influences" is a natural stage in the making of an artist/musician - it usually leads to "adolescent posturing". it's outgrowing this attachment to one or two writers/musicians, or even say, a certain period/style, when an artist/musician becomes so-called "mature". you bring up an interesting point about "precursors", though, a word that has become indispensable in a critic's vocabulary. for example, naming a current-day musician's precursors - say, We for example - i'm sure we could all enumerate a heterogeneous list in which all resemble We in some way; however, if i'm not mistaken, not all of them would resemble each other. this second fact is the more significant. in each of those musicians listed, we would find We's "idiosyncrasy" to a greater or lesser degree, but if We had never formed and recorded some songs, we would have never perceived this quality; in other words, it would not exist. the poem "Fears and Scruples" by Browning foretells Kafka's work, but our reading of Kafka perceptibly sharpens and deflects our reading of the poem. Browning did not read it as we do now. get it? my basic point is that the word "precursors" should be cleansed of all connotations of polemics or rivalry, imho. the fact is that every writer/musician *creates* his own precursors. his work modifies our conception of the past, as it will modify the future (see either T.S. Eliot's "Tradition and The Individual Talent and/or "Points of View"). in this correlation the identity or plurality of the men involved is unimportant.
quoted 2 lines original is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. And if, by drawing influences>original is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. And if, by drawing influences >from others I actually branch off and come up with something
different/original,
quoted 2 lines then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with>then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with >something totally original, you`ll end up with something totally shite.
couldn't agree with you more. some of the most individual parts of a work of art/song are those which are the most traditional - and i don't feel that i'm taking a conservative standpoint. i've been sensing the increasing tendency to equate originality with perversity...not that i have a problem with the perverse... just a thought, please don't flame my mailbox (again, unless you're from Cambridge, MA). Dunc. p.s. next week, i'll tell you all the story of Ishmael Reed and the 18 year-old Victor Hernandez Cruz failing spanish class...
1998-06-03 22:59Kelsey DamasOn Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Heatsink wrote: ->rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can
From:
Kelsey Damas
To:
Heatsink
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:59:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
Reply to:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.980603151505.19916A-100000@prtr-13.ucsc.edu>
On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Heatsink wrote: ->rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what ->influences ->they have, and while I`m not going to blatantly steal from another track, ->I`ll ->readily use techniques pioneered by others in my own tracks. How original ->is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. So you are borrowing techniques from artists (such as aphex) who are unoriginal themselves? I don't think it is a very cool thing to borrow from someone and then turn around and call *them* unoriginal. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. ->And if, by drawing influences from ->others I actually branch off and come up with something different/original, ->then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with ->something totally original, you`ll end up with something totally shite. One person's shit is another person's gold. It's possible that something totally original will take a while to completely understand and appreciate (and it could seem like "total shite" at first). But at any rate, I would rather listen to someone spending all their time trying to come up with something original than someone copying someone who copied someone else (i'm NOT saying that this is what Map One is doing). ->I`ll stand by every one of those tracks on Map One and defend them as ->utterly valid, thoughtful and release-worthy tracks. Some of them I might ->even think of as <gasp> pretty original. Unfortunately, I haven't heard Map One yet (but all I have heard is good things, and I'm looking forward to hearing it), so take what I say with a grain of salt. respect, ______________________________________________________________________________ . . ..a n a g r a m a t c a t s d o t u c s c d o t e d u.. . . . . ..h y p e r t e x t t r a n s f e r p r o t o c o l.. . . ..u s e r s d o t c w n e t d o t c o m s l a s h a n a g r a m..
1998-06-04 01:34Luke KeenanOn 3 Jun 98 , Heatsink wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Luke Keenan <lukek@
From:
Luke Keenan
To:
Heatsink
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:34:09 +0000
Subject:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
Reply to:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
permalink · <19980604014241.06565700.in@insight-media.co.uk>
On 3 Jun 98 , Heatsink wrote:
quoted 14 lines -----Original Message-----> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Luke Keenan <lukek@insight-media.co.uk> > To: idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org> > Date: 03 June 1998 00:44 > Subject: (idm) vvm/speedranch > > > >Map One: contaminated by technique - by members of this parish of > >course. Theres a high standard throughout, and there's enjoyment to > >be had, but its all reminiscent/derivative of the well known. Its > >easily said, but I've heard aphex twin, and autechre, and they are > >difficult to improve upon. So why try?
cheap shot - ok.
quoted 12 lines Um...Stuart, help!! I think this was a point Adam raised in his> > Um...Stuart, help!! I think this was a point Adam raised in his > review, that some/most of the tracks were similar to or > heavily-influenced by more well known artists. As I can only speak > for myself and not the other guys on the CD, I`ll say that I wasn`t > trying to improve on any artist`s previous work, but rather to make > *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what > influences they have, and while I`m not going to blatantly steal > from another track, I`ll readily use techniques pioneered by others > in my own tracks. How original is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. > And if, by drawing influences from others I actually branch off and > come up with something different/original, then great.
I suppose the point I was trying to make is that I would rather hear more of your own input, wether it be good or bad. just to hear a track that makes me think 'what was that?', just something a little different. Originality isnt all, but its difficult to take the same melodies/rythmns/sounds and to come up with a killer track. Afx may not have dreamt the entire show up himself, but he's certainly inspired many. Right place and time? or talent, musical or otherwise.
quoted 3 lines Chances are,> Chances are, > if you spend all your time trying to come up with something totally > original, you`ll end up with something totally shite.
There is always the aspect of trying too hard. There's little to gain from attempting to mutate for the sake of it, unless you're dissatisfied to start with.
quoted 4 lines I`ll stand by every one of those tracks on Map One and defend them> > I`ll stand by every one of those tracks on Map One and defend them > as utterly valid, thoughtful and release-worthy tracks. Some of > them I might even think of as <gasp> pretty original.
I agree, Map One is a worthwhile project. It may be a little churlish of me to complain, but I wanted it to be superb. Fuck it, do what you do and enjoy doing it. I'll shut up now.
quoted 13 lines Anyway, it`s nine quid for 16 tracks, so what are you moaning about?> > Anyway, it`s nine quid for 16 tracks, so what are you moaning about? > :-) > > <---HEATsink---> > > > > > > > >
1998-06-08 17:15GamePrg.On Wednesday, 03-Jun-98, Heatsink wrote [about Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch]: >then great. Cha
From:
GamePrg.
To:
IDM
Date:
Mon, 08 Jun 1998 17:15:11 EST4EDT
Subject:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch + dj spooky
Reply to:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
permalink · <yam7463.561.128239712@mail.clark.net>
On Wednesday, 03-Jun-98, Heatsink wrote [about Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch]:
quoted 2 lines then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with>then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with >something totally original, you`ll end up with something totally shite.
yeah, like spooky's latest effort... sounds like a damn sample-cd :) speaking of which.. does anybody know anything about his collaboration with metallica (was it?) . is it any good? (closing his eyes tight in a defensive posture) __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ "..in whatever you do, if you can't break new ground, what's the point?" - James Cameron
1998-06-03 23:19rod a lesterall i can say is that a person knows what they like, be it original or not /// and thats w
From:
rod a lester
To:
Date:
Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:19:12 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) vvm/speedranch
permalink · <19980603.163825.3966.4.stepintime@juno.com>
all i can say is that a person knows what they like, be it original or not /// and thats what their influences are *but a person does not necessarilly (fuk i cant spell) know what they are going to like in the future. these thing are also that persons influences. a person may also be subconsiously influenced by the things they hate form being expossed to them. limited to 1 copy, rod _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]