IDM Mailing Archive

what's the big deal with these mask 12's please?

On Monday, 12-Jan-98, deepart wrote [about Re: (idm) mask 2 for sale]:

quoted 1 line what's the big deal with these mask 12's please?

>what's the big deal with these mask 12's please?

rarity = commercial propaganda = lame .. that's why it costs a buttload. now it's quite possibly worth having, but I've never heard it. .auddplte <-- muroroa __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ www.freq-div.home.ml.org

quoted 1 line What's the big deal with these mask 12's please?

> What's the big deal with these mask 12's please?

*Shrug* I dunno, but what I think is *really* funny is the fact that these two Mask 12"-ers are already bringing rarified prices, yet ATL-5 MP3'ized Mask 2 and put it up on the Web with nary a peep from anyone. But when I suggested I would MP3'ize my "Ambiant Otaku" and put it up on the Web, I got several private e-mails saying "Oooooh nooooooo don't do that, someone already said they'd do it on the Ambient list and they got their ass fried". Why would I get my ass fried and ATL-5 not (thanks ATL-5 btw, I grabbed 'em long ago)? Can you say, "Logically inconsistent"? Sure ... I knew you could. - Greg

AtL-5 wrote: I

quoted 8 lines got several private e-mails saying "Oooooh nooooooo don't do that, someone

> >got several private e-mails saying "Oooooh nooooooo don't do that, someone > >already said they'd do it on the Ambient list and they got their ass fried". > >Why would I get my ass fried and ATL-5 not (thanks ATL-5 btw, I grabbed 'em > >long ago)? Can you say, "Logically inconsistent"? Sure ... I knew you > could. > > Cuz, I'm special! :) >

ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I was asked to get in touch with the guilty parties to express andy's displeasure...and did we get anything back?? nope... special??..naah, just a sad ignorant individual with no respect for copyright and the individuals that put in hard work to create good music so fuck you -- peace. Brian F studio moo online http://www.source.co.uk/users/moo/moo.htm

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, brian flanagan (DA7A7H13F) wrote:

quoted 6 lines ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I was

> ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I was > asked to get in touch with the guilty parties to express andy's > displeasure...and did we get anything back?? nope... > > special??..naah, just a sad ignorant individual with no respect for > copyright and the individuals that put in hard work to create good music

And how about sad ignorant labels who put out records in insanely limited editions that don't even come *close* to satisfying customer demand, showing no respect for the individuals who would *love* to own the music in it's original format, but who couldn't find a copy upon release and don't feel like paying $200+ for a copy in auction? Hmmmmmm? Believe me, I have a great deal of respect for creator's rights. If a release is in print and I want it, I'll buy it. If a friend wants a copy of something that I own and I know it's in print, I'll tell him/her to go buy it, or at least make them promise to buy it if they find themselves enjoying a taped copy a lot (sort of like "shareware", I guess). But goddamn it, if something is out of print, and will not be coming back into print at any point in the visible future, I have no moral issues surrounding the duplication of the release. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. Bottom line: if Skam (or MAS or Warp or Rephlex or whoever...) continues thier practice of limited edition releases - especially in numbers as low as the MASK releases have been - they should fucking well *expect* that "bootlegging" of those releases is going to take place. *Especially* in a genre that tends to have a rabid (and thanks to the Net & this list, well-connected) group of fans & followers.

quoted 1 line so fuck you

> so fuck you

Have a nice day! :-) Greg

quoted 17 lines ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I

> > ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I > was > > asked to get in touch with the guilty parties to express andy's > > displeasure...and did we get anything back?? nope... > > > > special??..naah, just a sad ignorant individual with no respect for > > copyright and the individuals that put in hard work to create good > music > > And how about sad ignorant labels who put out records in insanely > limited > editions that don't even come *close* to satisfying customer demand, > showing no respect for the individuals who would *love* to own the > music > in it's original format, but who couldn't find a copy upon release and > > don't feel like paying $200+ for a copy in auction? Hmmmmmm?

I can see the arguements from both sides.. but please everyone remember that often when small labels release records they do it through bank loans, or just dont eat very well for a few years. Even though they may be able to sell any records they produce, its usually the question of getting the capital together to actually set it going, and then theres the fact that even if you do sell them all you may not end up in profit. If i ran a small record label my priority would be the next record not represses of older titles.... so those older titles often suffer. Steve /k/./F/ http://freespace.virgin.net/kung.funk/kf.htm

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Steve /k/./F/ wrote:

quoted 13 lines please everyone remember that

> please everyone remember that > often when small labels release records they do it through bank loans, > or just > dont eat very well for a few years. Even though they may be able to sell > any > records they produce, its usually the question of getting the capital > together > to actually set it going, and then theres the fact that even if you do > sell them all > you may not end up in profit. If i ran a small record label my priority > would > be the next record not represses of older titles.... so those older > titles often suffer.

Don't worry, Steve, I can dig that. I have friends who run indie labels, and I've seen them eating Ramen noodles and mac&cheese for weeks on end so they can afford to put out the next record. My little tirade in the earlier message about "sad, ignorant labels" wasn't meant to belittle the financial situations of said labels, I was just playing devil's advocate to the man from Moo's message. I still maintain, though, that those labels shouldn't be getting so uptight about fans trading tapes/CD-Rs/MP3s/etc. of those out of print releases. After all, most anyone who's fan enough to go to the bother of tracking down the material in trade will be happy to drop the cash for a reissue should it ever surface. And hell, having MP3s floating about of early, out of print releases on a label may very well *help* sales on future releases as people discover the label through the soundfiles. Greg

quoted 4 lines I still maintain, though, that those labels shouldn't be getting so

> I still maintain, though, that those labels shouldn't be getting so > reissue should it ever surface. And hell, having MP3s floating about of > early, out of print releases on a label may very well *help* sales on > future releases as people discover the label through the soundfiles.

i buy stuff based on mp3 material... though, i admit, theres probably more stuff that i *won't* buy because of them than that which i will... mp3 got me into metalheadz and u-ziq, and i've dropped a load of $ on both because of it... probably wouldn't have given either a chance otherwise... Chris brap@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/~brap/ blackdog, vvm, whitezone-l, slipdisc C.Gosselin, PO Box 8264, Santa Rosa, CA 95407

quoted 1 line "Greg" == Greg Clow <stained@interlog.com> writes:

>>>>> "Greg" == Greg Clow <stained@interlog.com> writes:

Greg> I still maintain, though, that those labels shouldn't be Greg> getting so uptight about fans trading Greg> tapes/CD-Rs/MP3s/etc. of those out of print releases. After Greg> all, most anyone who's fan enough to go to the bother of Greg> tracking down the material in trade will be happy to drop Greg> the cash for a reissue should it ever surface. And hell, Greg> having MP3s floating about of early, out of print releases Greg> on a label may very well *help* sales on future releases as Greg> people discover the label through the soundfiles. I think this is the essential point really. I know that there are MP3 horders our there, but the majority of people will hold onto an MP3 of a really good track that they can't get their hands on. I have a good bit of music on MP3 and ra on my system here at work. Most of the music is stuff that I have on vinyl and hence can't be listened to at work. The rest is stuff that I just can't get a hold of. I only keep it if it's a really class track, and I can tell you all straight out, that if the day ever comes that the Mask EPs are rereleased, I'll be in the queue with cash in hand, coz let's face it, MP3 is just not the same as having a nice shiny disc to sit in your music collection, through sickness and health, till death do you part. -hjw

At 07:11 PM 1/14/98 +0000, Steve /k/./F/ wrote:

quoted 18 lines I can see the arguements from both sides.. but please everyone remember

> >I can see the arguements from both sides.. but please everyone remember >that >often when small labels release records they do it through bank loans, >or just >dont eat very well for a few years. Even though they may be able to sell >any >records they produce, its usually the question of getting the capital >together >to actually set it going, and then theres the fact that even if you do >sell them all >you may not end up in profit. If i ran a small record label my priority >would >be the next record not represses of older titles.... so those older >titles often suffer. > >Steve >

selling out-of-print records from person to person for whatever price does not hurt (or profit) the record company in any way. if some idiot wants to pay $120 for a mask 12" then it's their own problem it doesn't affect skam's (or the artist's) profits at all. i could see a problem with bootlegging in-print music, but when the damn thing is out of print, there is no reason why not to. all the more power to out-of-print MP3s. - wells oliver : s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu "jack's bicycle is music to my ears . everything is possible"

On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:11:59 +0000 "Steve /k/./F/" <kung.funk@virgin.net> writes:

quoted 46 lines ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I

>> > ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I >> was >> > asked to get in touch with the guilty parties to express andy's >> > displeasure...and did we get anything back?? nope... >> > >> > special??..naah, just a sad ignorant individual with no respect >for >> > copyright and the individuals that put in hard work to create good >> music >> >> And how about sad ignorant labels who put out records in insanely >> limited >> editions that don't even come *close* to satisfying customer demand, >> showing no respect for the individuals who would *love* to own the >> music >> in it's original format, but who couldn't find a copy upon release >and >> >> don't feel like paying $200+ for a copy in auction? Hmmmmmm? > >I can see the arguements from both sides.. but please everyone >remember >that >often when small labels release records they do it through bank loans, >or just >dont eat very well for a few years. Even though they may be able to >sell >any >records they produce, its usually the question of getting the capital >together >to actually set it going, and then theres the fact that even if you do >sell them all >you may not end up in profit. If i ran a small record label my >priority >would >be the next record not represses of older titles.... so those older >titles often suffer. > >Steve > >/k/./F/ > >http://freespace.virgin.net/kung.funk/kf.htm > > >

quoted 3 lines ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I was

>ACTUALLY...andy maddocks was NOT happy about the mask2 mp3's and I was >asked to get in touch with the guilty parties to express andy's >displeasure...and did we get anything back?? nope...

quoted 2 lines special??..naah, just a sad ignorant individual with no respect for

>special??..naah, just a sad ignorant individual with no respect for >copyright and the individuals that put in hard work to create good music

a man called dataTHIEF complains about an unauthorised mp3 bootleg of an impossible to obtain record... and the man behind the label that brought you a ripoff of a colonel abrams song is talking about respect for hard work and creating good music? is this serious? :-) if anyone wants my mask 2 ep, i'll accept a trade for the klute or andromeda strain soundtrack lps... it's not THAT good.. infact, it's not even that good :-) <waves> np - children with psychic powers - million $ teardrop