IDM Mailing Archive

2000-03-09 23:31martin wheeler>And Eno has made many good points about how the sequencing environment >produces music wh

From:: martin wheeler <mwheeler@club-internet.fr>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 10 Mar 00 00:31:55 +0100
Subject:: (idm) welded to the grid (was:lets talk equip)

quoted 4 lines And Eno has made many good points about how the sequencing environment

>And Eno has made many good points about how the sequencing environment >produces music which is welded to the grid, no matter how complex that >grid may be... as he mentions, you can feel those bars and chunks of >audio cycling by your ears

Dunno much about that - there's no doubt that a whole lot of sequencer-built music is, and _feels_ like it is, tied to the 8,16,32 or whatever bar grid - but then so is a lot of non-sequenced 'played' pop music - you've still got verse/bridge/chorus 'chunks' defining the structure. AFAI'm concerned, this isn't of itself a good or a bad thing, but in both cases is definitely part of the feel and essence of the respective 'genres'. But on the other hand if you consider programs like Max et al as being 'sequencing environments' (which is what they are, amongst other things) then this whole line goes straight out the window - with these programs you are only 'welded to the grid' if you go out of your way to make a grid and then go out of your way again to weld yourself to it ;-)

quoted 4 lines ... and he makes another great point about how computers

>... and he makes another great point about how computers >separate us from the muscular action necessary to produce acts which >mean something and have a relation between a sound and the action which >produced it

Well I would definitely agree with this, but once again IMHO that isn't necessarily a good or a bad thing, just a different thing. And, as it happens, a lot of the most interesting stuff coming down the pipe is addressing precisely this - how to build appropriate physical interfaces for _playing_ virtual instruments. Interpreting 'muscular action' (and just as importantly tactile _reaction_ from the interface) in meaningful ways is a big part of this. STEIM have done a lot of important work on this stuff. Getting back to Mr Eno's remarks, IMHO one of the best things he ever did is 'Music for Airports.' Do the 'muscular actions' involved in cutting up different length tape loops of singing and playing and then letting them phase against each other really 'mean something' more than doing the same sort of thing with an audio sequencer, or with a MIDI sequencer plus sampler ? I don't see it myself. Any half-way serious sequencer can make loops of like 45 bars, 3 beats and 137 clicks phasing against 33 bars, 1 beat and 29 clicks against 9 bars, 0 beats, 1 click or whatever, and that with _very_ little muscular action ;-) Whilst this is definitely a 'grid' of sorts, it is no more a grid, and is certainly just as complex a one as that defining Mr Eno's so very evocative tape loops ... These are certainly very interesting questions indeed, but i think the whole thing is way, way more complex than that. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-03-10 18:52Lee AzzarelloThis is perfect. I am 'realizing' a Stockhausen composition for my undergraduate seinor pr

From:: Lee Azzarello <roswell@antioch-college.edu>
To:: idm <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 10 Mar 00 13:52:40 -0500
Subject:: Re: (idm) welded to the grid (was:lets talk equip)

This is perfect. I am 'realizing' a Stockhausen composition for my undergraduate seinor project. It's called Studie II and from what I hear it is the first piece of western 'classical' electronic music ever published (1954). Instead of using tape like Karl did, I'm using the Csound synthesis language (I know it's not the most up to date but neither is my computer). The measurement of time is very precise, going to four decimal places (Miliseconds I think). So...I don't really know how the final product will sound but I'm pretty sure it won't be very grid like at all. And the best part is the score written on paper is an extremely tight grid. The images are quite facinating. If there is still interest, I'll post the final realization (with images of the paper score) on my web site and we can compare Eno's grid of tape to Stockhausen's grid of digits. I should be done with this by the end of the month. It might be fun... as ever homies, lee azzarello

quoted 1 line martin wheeler wrote this on 1/16/45 6:31 PM

>martin wheeler wrote this on 1/16/45 6:31 PM

quoted 17 lines Getting back to Mr Eno's remarks, IMHO one of the best things he ever did

>Getting back to Mr Eno's remarks, IMHO one of the best things he ever did >is 'Music for Airports.' >Do the 'muscular actions' involved in cutting up different length tape >loops of singing and playing and then letting them phase against each >other really 'mean something' more than doing the same sort of thing with >an audio sequencer, or with a MIDI sequencer plus sampler ? I don't see >it myself. >Any half-way serious sequencer can make loops of like 45 bars, 3 beats >and 137 clicks phasing against 33 bars, 1 beat and 29 clicks against 9 >bars, 0 beats, 1 click or whatever, and that with _very_ little muscular >action ;-) >Whilst this is definitely a 'grid' of sorts, it is no more a grid, and is >certainly just as complex a one as that defining Mr Eno's so very >evocative tape loops ... > >These are certainly very interesting questions indeed, but i think the >whole thing is way, way more complex than that.

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(idm) welded to the grid (was:lets talk equip)