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From:
ben gill
To:
Date:
Sun, 9 Feb 2003 14:21:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Life after SoulSeek
Msg-Id:
<20030209222103.32133.qmail@web41505.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To:
<002701c2d079$3a44e8d0$0201a8c0@chu>
Mbox:
idm.0302.gz
arg criticized begins here:
quoted 10 lines there's nothing inherently>there's nothing inherently >correct about that process, it's just one of many-as >is mp3 file sharing--as is the labels giving the >product away and asking for donations--as is majors >going back to the vinyl/tape formats and eschewing >digital media in the most blatant greedy capitalist >Luddite move ever. None of these is the inherently >correct method. It seems that you want to cling to >the traditional way of doing business, which is fine, >but not necessary.
and now the criticism:
quoted 9 lines You are ignoring copyright which is not a force of> You are ignoring copyright which is not a force of > nature but a historically > recent law constructed with the purpose of allowing > businesses like record > labels to exist. Your argument is logically no > different to 'I can buy a gun > so why shouldn't I shoot someone in the head - you > can't stop me, I can do > it and if I want to I will'.
Huh? My arg is basically: 1. there is no inherently correct way to distribute music 2. therefore, no one way is "necessary," or the correct way. A little bit different from "I can buy a gun..." as you say. The principle there's more like "I can achieve the means to do damage--so why not do damage?" I'm not talking about doing damage to anyone or anything. I fail to see the meaningful correlation between what I said and what you say I said. As for copyright, I never once took issue with what was legal or illegal. I agree with your point that downloading mp3s might infringe on an artist's legal rights. I simply do not care about this aspect of copyright law, which is why that wasn't a consideration in my original post--or I guess more precisely, it wasn't a concern of Muffin's email (don't forget I was just replying to his post, to his points). As for working to relax the copyright law, since I don't care about how d/l mp3s infriges on it in the first place, I find it a slim probability that you'll find me wasting my time there. I hope you don't think it's too far to go to say that your points have a few fundamental assumptions (which don't compel me): 1. Because downloading mp3s breaks copyright law, it is wrong. 2. There is a cause/effect relationship between breaking copyright law and dwindling sales/the decline of record labels. I'd say point 2 is the more interesting, less moral question--and more susceptible to a few prods. Muffin didn't take this one on, for good reason--it's impossible to prove. There are too many factors for financial decline, it's just as easy to argue that p2p's brilliant virus-like spreading combats the financial decline of record labels by encouraging people to get the "real thing" down at the shop/through mail order. Some people buy the cds, some people don't. But is it the case that person X, who downloaded album Y, would have bought it if downloading weren't an option? Uncertain. I think that's just as likely a scenario as the obvious "leech" syndrome that everyone's so concerned about, and it does sweet F.A. to a record company's bottom line. As for "the proponents of freedownloading are not making a serious argument here and are just inviting all kinds of invasive tollgate-type technology..."--there's no argument to be made. P2p exists, and it'll keep going. Is it right? What will labels do? Neither of those questions requires an argument to be made to justify freedownloading. As for the tollgate thing, if you're saying that labels, due to declining sales/desperation/conniving are going to do away with all physically tangible music products and replace that with a public database, I highly doubt it. People will continue to make tangible music products because that's the tradition we've become used to. Djing will support vinyl. CDs are still incredibly popular. Some tollgate type thing might be instituted alongside the physical products as a new gimmick, but that doesn't preclude the idea of other p2p networks. Who the fuck wants to use a public database like the one you describe, when all it takes is one person to upload a given file into a program like soulseek and viola!, instant sharing. The alternatives will always exist. For the record, I have no issue with Luddites, I was simply employing the term because it was apt. I see no discrepancy between a neo-Luddite movement and the idea of p2p. Perhaps they're just revisionist Luddites? :) Ben ps - if I don't reply to each objection/email I receive on this post, it's because the last hour of my life was spent composing the above, and I'm not going to give up too many more on this topic. The disturbing thing is that I was going to work on music during that hour... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org