While we're here, does someone want to dig up the URL of that Dave Eggers rant about selling out (and how its not necessarily always such a terrible thing)? While you're doing that, I'm going to go read some of McSweeney's 8, a wonderful product of selling out.
-Aaron
----- Original Message -----
From: M Mercer <vletrmx@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, August 12, 2002 4:05 pm
Subject: Re: [idm] re: give me a fucking break, leave scott alone
quoted 225 lines I don't know that for someone who makes a living as a recording
> I don't know that for someone who makes a living as a recording
> artist, that
> it is so simple to reduce it to an academic argument of ethics and
> morality.
> If Scott Herren chose to take the so-called moral high road and
> not license
> the rights to his track for Foot Locker, Foot Locker would have
> hired a no
> name artist to completely knock off his style and make something
> that sounds
> almost identical. Herren in the end would be ripped off
> stylistically, a lot
> of P73 might wonder "I've never heard that Prefuse 73 track
> before, did he
> do something specific for Foot Locker?" and in the end Foot Locker
> would
> most likely profit all the same. While I'm not necessarily a huge
> fan of
> over-licensing music (Moby being the most extreme example, but
> even he has
> justified his actions in a similar manner, take it or leave it of
> course), I
> don't hold it against Herren for doing this. For starters, I like
> his music,
> and if it hits an unknowing audience, then so be it. He can take
> the money
> that he's received from this advertisement and do whatever he
> wants with it.
> For all we know, he's donated it to charity. And if he hasn't, so
> what? He
> is doing what he needs (or wants) to keep pursuing music as a
> career, not a
> hobby.
>
> So, while I agree with several of your points, I would agree more
> with Josh
> that the corporate wrong-doings of Foot Locker and Nike are hardly
> contingent upon the licensing of a Prefuse 73 track.
>
>
>
> >From: "robert stanton" <industrialrobot@hotmail.com>
> >To: benelli3000@hotmail.com
> >CC: idm@hyperreal.org
> >Subject: [idm] re: give me a fucking break, leave scott alone
> >Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 17:28:09 -0500
> >
> >>last time i checked, liberalism hasn't a flying fig to do with
> what
> >> >you're talking about-but capitalism vs. socialism does.
> >I'd suggest actually paying attention to what I had been talking
> about, and
> >if you're confused, doing a general web-search for definitions of
> the terms
> >or concepts. As I had said many times before, neoliberalism
> operates not
> >only as an economic system but as a political and cultural system
> as well.
> >Neoliberalism's core values are that consumerism, the market, and
> class
> >inequality are natural and often benevolent, whereas political
> activity,
> >civic values, and antimarket activities tend to be marginalized
> or
> >denounced. Thus, neoliberalism works best when there is formal
> electoral
> >democracy, but when the population is diverted from the
> information,
> >access, and public forums necessary for meaningful participation
> in
> >decision making.
> >
> >>if you're so vexed by capitalism then go live in china and ride
> a >bike,
> >>eat hay and not own any of the music you make.
> >Please. Have you ever studied anything about China or been
> there?
> >Obviously not, judging by the crude comments you made. In terms
> of its
> >economy and politics, it's just as poor a country, in the
> participatory
> >sense, as the US. So I would have no reason to go there on terms
> of
> >ideological values.
> >
> >>and caring? wake up man, do YOU care? what do YOU do to
> assuage the
> >>bereavment of the world? next time i take a big capitalist
> style shit
> >> >and it hurts, you better be there to prep-H my suffering
> butthole. or
> >> >you shouldn't mind everyone's beezwax, eh?
> >Yeah, I care. I'm involved with several activist committees as
> well as my
> >local politics. This is the best I can do to attempt to help
> people. If
> >you don't notice a big difference, it's because people (like you
> seem to
> >be) are unaware or are indifferent to current situations, so they
> don't
> >form mass movements or protest to have change. Somehow, the idea
> that this
> >is "the best of all possible worlds" got ingrained into most
> people's
> >heads. Also, big business and interest groups have lobbies
> working hard
> >for their interests, whereas the citizen doesn't. As far as
> helping you
> >goes, I live and work in a specific part of the country, so I am
> unable to
> >be concerned with your day-to-day problems. However, I would
> argue that
> >many of the reforms I work towards would be beneficial to you and
> others.
> >Since you seem to be complaining that I've never directly
> "helped" you,
> >have you ever heard of helping yourself? Of taking action by
> yourself and
> >not letting others do all the work for you? If you think you see
> problems
> >that need resolving, and can't do it on your own, why don't you
> join a
> >group on your own and actually do something?
> >
> >>who the hell do you think you are to say that scott is naive?
> >I have the ability to say that Scott Herren is naive for not
> knowing what
> >industries his music is now supporting. If he does know all the
> things
> >that Foot Locker commercial stands for, and he just doesn't care,
> then I'd
> >say he's a fool.
> >
> >>have you heard his fucking records?
> >Yes. But I'm unaware of how this would represent either his
> naivete or
> >ignorance as to what was being discussed...
> >
> >>who's life is scott ending by letting some goon edit his track
> to shit
> >> >and bury it behind some fucking rent-a-homie hyping up sports
> and
> >> >sonsense?
> >Well, maybe he allowed Foot Locker, which deals in Nike products,
> to buy
> >more things from Nike, who in turn has their products made from
> workers in
> >countries where there are no environmental or human rights
> standards.
> >Perhaps one of those workers will die from maltreatment or
> respitory
> >problems. I'm not trying to get sympathy here - you asked who's
> life such
> >a commercial could end, and I'm attempting to answer in the most
> obvious
> >and direct way.
> >
> >>get a grip, man, he's trying to get a fucking leg up, and giving
> you
> >> >music to ponder the fuck out of and try to figure out how he
> did it.
> >Not through a commercial he isn't.
> >
> >>in conclusion, if you didn't spend so much time flapping your
> lips, >and
> >>spent more time on your tracks and your musical skills, then you
> >would be
> >>getting paid too.
> >Yes...I hate Scott Herren because the music I try to make is so
> horrible
> >and pathetic compared to his. This is exactly the same reasoning
> I use to
> >explain why I'm not fond of Michael Eisner and Rupert Murdoch -
> because
> >they have so much more money than me! Your assumptions here are
> quite
> >wrong - I could honestly care less about money or profit. I'm
> more
> >concerned with the ideological issues behind actions.
> >
> >>and buy the new Savath+Savalas ep, it's the shit.
> >Yeah. Buy, buy, buy, buy. It seems like commercialism and
> neoliberalism
> >have influenced you well.
> >
> >>long live capitalism! that's right, bitches. i mean it.
> >The United States isn't even true capitalism. In true
> capitalism,
> >businesses wouldn't have the ability to buy the government,
> amongst other
> >things. What you're living in right now is some mutant form of
> that
> >economic system. I'd also really advise you to do a good, long
> study of
> >the history of capitalism in the US and its effects on politics
> and society
> >before you honestly proclaim your support of it. Perhaps then
> you'll see
> >the problems with things as they stand now, and agree that anyone
> who
> >supports such institutions is either naive or ignorant.
> >
> >Thanks for your expletive-filled post. It was quite amusing.
> >
> >Robert
> >
>
>
>
> m.mercer :: design + sound
> http://www.matthewmercer.com/
>
>
>
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