IDM Mailing Archive

1994-10-06 22:02Jeff TaylorI think that it would be safe to say that outboard fx are what make any production shine..

From:: Jeff Taylor <jeff@hyperreal.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 15:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: production tricks..

I think that it would be safe to say that outboard fx are what make any production shine.. I've created multiunit fx for the DP-4 that are pure techno. hell you could pass gass into this box and make incredible noises.. so preset or not the fx can transform anything into brilliance.. is this idm? not really.. =Q=

1994-10-07 01:43Dan NicholsonJeff Taylor <jeff@hyperreal.com> writes: > I think that it would be safe to say that outbo

From:: Dan Nicholson <8bit@vlad.bowker.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Thu, 06 Oct 94 21:43:06 EDT
Subject:: Re: production tricks..
Reply to:: production tricks..

Jeff Taylor <jeff@hyperreal.com> writes:

quoted 6 lines I think that it would be safe to say that outboard fx are what make

> I think that it would be safe to say that outboard fx are what make > any production shine.. > > I've created multiunit fx for the DP-4 that are pure techno. hell you > could pass gass into this box and make incredible noises.. so preset or not > the fx can transform anything into brilliance..

the problem with this, is that someone's going to read this and go out and buy all these fancy expensive boxes and samplers and think they can be the next techno/idm/ambient god. these "anything boxes" are much of the reason why there are so many crap records coming out nowadays. sure, they're nice to have, but they don't "transform anything into brilliance" or "make incredible noises". i could replace my entire setup for less than the price of two DP/4s, and i am quite satisfied with the sounds i make. someone with talent could make incredible noises with a $100 synth or hell even a bucket and a pair of drum sticks. people make music, not DSPs. - Dan transmission 23 - FTZ - edrone - clonor the other - morpheus ii The 8-Bit Collective/8-Bit Records * US/Finland mail: eightbit@vlad.bowker.com - rkn@phoenix.oulu.fi WorldWideWeb: http://ftp.luth.se/pub/misc2/kosmic/www/8bit.html KLF/FreeMusicFoundation: http://ftp.luth.se/pub/misc2/kosmic/www/

1994-10-07 04:12Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com> (Jon Drukman)Dan sed: >the problem with this, is that someone's going to read this and go out and >buy

From:: <Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com> (Jon Drukman)>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 21:12:40 -0700
Subject:: Re: production tricks..

Dan sed:

quoted 9 lines the problem with this, is that someone's going to read this and go out and

>the problem with this, is that someone's going to read this and go out and >buy all these fancy expensive boxes and samplers and think they can be the >next techno/idm/ambient god. these "anything boxes" are much of the reason >why there are so many crap records coming out nowadays. sure, they're nice >to have, but they don't "transform anything into brilliance" or "make >incredible noises". i could replace my entire setup for less than the price >of two DP/4s, and i am quite satisfied with the sounds i make. someone with >talent could make incredible noises with a $100 synth or hell even a bucket >and a pair of drum sticks. people make music, not DSPs.

you know what... i used to think this, but the more i play around with advanced technology, the more i realize that it doesn't really take talent to make good music, it just takes loads of top notch gear. talent is good cos it lets you get by with just a TR909 and a TB303. but for every GOOD 909/303 record, how many shitty ones are there? a billion and six. on the other hand, how many groups that have 4 totally stacked Akai samplers and K2000s sound bad? none that i can think of. if you want to make it in the techno arena, you'd better be prepared to pay through the nose... /jon - only half kidding. Jon Drukman jsd@cyborganic.com

1994-10-07 16:38Dan NicholsonJon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com> (Jon Drukman) writes: > you know what... i used to think

From:: Dan Nicholson <8bit@vlad.bowker.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 07 Oct 94 12:38:55 EDT
Subject:: Re: production tricks..
Reply to:: Re: production tricks..

Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com> (Jon Drukman) writes:

quoted 3 lines you know what... i used to think this, but the more i play around with

> you know what... i used to think this, but the more i play around with > advanced technology, the more i realize that it doesn't really take talent > to make good music, it just takes loads of top notch gear.

! (dan quivers in fear)

quoted 6 lines talent is good cos it lets you get by with just a TR909 and a TB303. but

> talent is good cos it lets you get by with just a TR909 and a TB303. but > for every GOOD 909/303 record, how many shitty ones are there? a billion > and six. > > on the other hand, how many groups that have 4 totally stacked Akai > samplers and K2000s sound bad? none that i can think of.

well, it's mho but as soon as i read that i said "FSOL! 'Lifeforms' LP!" which i think is a prime example of what happens when no actual thought is put into the pieces - you end up with a great deal of crap and a rare good piece (a few of the tracks on disc 2 aren't half bad). also you have to take into account that there are probably 1000 techno "groups" out there with a setup equivalent to a 909 and a 303 for every one group with four s3200s and k2000s. as mixmaster morris pointed out on the ambient list, you could probably put autechre, bdp, reload and a few others gear together and they still wouldn't come close to what FSOL has. this may sound cocky, but if someone gave me four loaded akai samplers and a k2000 i don't doubt at all that i could make an album far better than 99.9% of everything released in the last two years. however, i don't think _anyone_ could. certainly the equipment helps, i don't disagree with anyone there, but the equipment does not make great music without a talented artist at the controls, and someone with talent doesn't have to have tons of expensive gear to make good music.

quoted 2 lines if you want to make it in the techno arena, you'd better be prepared to pay

> if you want to make it in the techno arena, you'd better be prepared to pay > through the nose...

=-) true satisfaction is achieved not by making poor albums with thousands of dollars in equipment and mediocre album covers on an SGI workstation but by making music in which the greatest and only necessary satisfaction is that you like to listen to it yourself.

quoted 1 line /jon - only half kidding.

> /jon - only half kidding.

and only half scaring me :) - Dan transmission 23 - FTZ - edrone - clonor the other - morpheus ii The 8-Bit Collective/8-Bit Records * US/Finland mail: eightbit@vlad.bowker.com - rkn@phoenix.oulu.fi WorldWideWeb: http://ftp.luth.se/pub/misc2/kosmic/www/8bit.html KLF/FreeMusicFoundation: http://ftp.luth.se/pub/misc2/kosmic/www/

1994-10-07 23:13Randalle ErkelensThe problem with technology is that it's now accessible to anyone at a low price. Let's no

From:: Randalle Erkelens <randalle@netcom.com>
To:: Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:13:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: production tricks..
Reply to:: Re: production tricks..

The problem with technology is that it's now accessible to anyone at a low price. Let's not be fooled by thinking someone has talent mearly because we hear the familiar 303/909 sounds and excellent production values. I'm a designer/art director and I see alot of shitty work trying to be passed-off. The creators claim to be xyz just because they can punch a few buttons on a Mac and get a pretty color output. But, like real musicians, the difference is obvious. And if someone can't discern the differences, then they don't have a clue anyway. randall On Thu, 6 Oct 1994, Jon Drukman wrote:

quoted 33 lines Dan sed:

> Dan sed: > > >the problem with this, is that someone's going to read this and go out and > >buy all these fancy expensive boxes and samplers and think they can be the > >next techno/idm/ambient god. these "anything boxes" are much of the reason > >why there are so many crap records coming out nowadays. sure, they're nice > >to have, but they don't "transform anything into brilliance" or "make > >incredible noises". i could replace my entire setup for less than the price > >of two DP/4s, and i am quite satisfied with the sounds i make. someone with > >talent could make incredible noises with a $100 synth or hell even a bucket > >and a pair of drum sticks. people make music, not DSPs. > > you know what... i used to think this, but the more i play around with > advanced technology, the more i realize that it doesn't really take talent > to make good music, it just takes loads of top notch gear. > > talent is good cos it lets you get by with just a TR909 and a TB303. but > for every GOOD 909/303 record, how many shitty ones are there? a billion > and six. > > on the other hand, how many groups that have 4 totally stacked Akai > samplers and K2000s sound bad? none that i can think of. > > if you want to make it in the techno arena, you'd better be prepared to pay > through the nose... > > /jon - only half kidding. > > Jon Drukman > jsd@cyborganic.com > > >

1994-10-08 00:47transmat@teleport.com>The problem with technology is that it's now accessible to anyone at a >low price. Let's

From:: <transmat@teleport.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:47:19 -0800
Subject:: Re: production tricks..

quoted 7 lines The problem with technology is that it's now accessible to anyone at a

>The problem with technology is that it's now accessible to anyone at a >low price. Let's not be fooled by thinking someone has talent mearly >because we hear the familiar 303/909 sounds and excellent production >values. I'm a designer/art director and I see alot of shitty work trying >to be passed-off. The creators claim to be xyz just because they can >punch a few buttons on a Mac and get a pretty color output. But, like >real musicians, the difference is obvious.

And if someone can't discern

quoted 2 lines the differences, then they don't have a clue anyway.

>the differences, then they don't have a clue anyway. >

Of course, the problem here is who decides what is good and is not good. Who is the real musician and the 'false' musician. Remember that graphic novel that came out in the 80s - The Watchmen? - The problem is who watches The Watchmen and who decides what is good and not good, etc. richard bleep...bleep...transmat@teleport.com

1994-10-11 12:44Greg Earle>> The problem with technology is that it's now accessible to anyone at a >> low price. Le

From:: Greg Earle <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 05:44:05 -0700
Subject:: Re: production tricks..
Reply to:: Re: production tricks..

quoted 12 lines The problem with technology is that it's now accessible to anyone at a

>> The problem with technology is that it's now accessible to anyone at a >> low price. Let's not be fooled by thinking someone has talent mearly >> because we hear the familiar 303/909 sounds and excellent production >> values. I'm a designer/art director and I see alot of shitty work trying >> to be passed-off. The creators claim to be xyz just because they can >> punch a few buttons on a Mac and get a pretty color output. But, like >> real musicians, the difference is obvious. >> >> And if someone can't discern the differences, then they don't have a clue >> anyway. > > Of course, the problem here is who decides what is good and is not good.

First Law of Usenet: the thread is officially over when Hitler is mentioned. Musical corollary to First Law of Usenet: the thread is officially over when "*real* musicians" (*cough*) are mentioned.

quoted 1 line Who is the real musician and the 'false' musician?

> Who is the real musician and the 'false' musician?

Thank you, Richard (and Pete, earlier). You're all beginning to sound like f*cking Rick Wakeman, for crying out loud. Remember him? Remember 1976? "Punk? That's not *music*. Gawd, they can't even *play*". Honestly, now ... I mean, I wouldn't know a "preset" if it came up and kicked me in the arse. And I don't f*cking care, either!!! If it sounds good coming out of the speakers, that's all that matters to me. Please take the "My di ... erm, SY77 is big ... erm, better than yours!" muso crap to rec.music.makers.synth or somewhere else ... (Personally, I'm still trying to figure out why it is that when Jamie makes all these inflammatory statements, no one says a thing; but when XDZebra Pete righteously flames him for them, everybody crawls out of the woodwork with their blowtorches at the ready. Sheesh ... ) - Greg

1994-10-11 16:17Howard Berkey> > (Personally, I'm still trying to figure out why it is that when Jamie makes all > thes

From:: Howard Berkey <howardb@enlil.premenos.com>
To:: Greg Earle <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 08:17:05 -0800 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: production tricks..
Reply to:: Re: production tricks..

quoted 6 lines (Personally, I'm still trying to figure out why it is that when Jamie makes all

> > (Personally, I'm still trying to figure out why it is that when Jamie makes all > these inflammatory statements, no one says a thing; but when XDZebra Pete > righteously flames him for them, everybody crawls out of the woodwork with > their blowtorches at the ready. Sheesh ... ) >

Because when you're basically honest and like to call bullshit on poseurs, lots of people don't like you. You should know that by now, Greg :-) -H-

1994-10-10 18:18Michael Wertheim> I'm a designer/art director and I see alot of shitty work trying > to be passed-off. The

From:: Michael Wertheim <mw@sybase.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:18:41 -0700
Subject:: Re: production tricks..

quoted 4 lines I'm a designer/art director and I see alot of shitty work trying

> I'm a designer/art director and I see alot of shitty work trying > to be passed-off. The creators claim to be xyz just because they can > punch a few buttons on a Mac and get a pretty color output. But, like > real musicians, the difference is obvious.

Yup. Look at 90% of rave flyers. Uggghhhh....

Re: production tricks..