IDM Mailing Archive

I just put together a new Welcome message and thought you all might like to see it... [begin message] dMP dMMMMb dMMMMMMMMb amr dMP VMP dMP"dMP"dMP dMP dMP dMP dMP dMP dMP Welcome to IDM dMP dMP.aMP dMP dMP dMP dMP dMMMMP" dMP dMP dMP the Intelligent Dance Music mailing list. Greetings. The Intelligent Dance Music mailinglist was set up in August of 1993 by Brian Behlendorf and myself as a platform for the discussion of a wave of what was termed "Intelligent Techno" originating mainly from the UK. Initially, the idea was to create a list dedicated to the Aphex Twin but it soon became apparent that there was a whole lot more going on that we felt was worthy of discussion. The most obvious example of this was Warp records "Artificial Intelligence" series which brought together various artists whose names are now at the forefront of the new wave of electronic listening music. These artists, including BlackDog Productions, B12, Autechre, Speedy J etc., are in my mind the epitomy of "IDM". As always, however, there are no specific boundaries by which we are able to define what is and what isn't Intelligent Dance Music. To begin with, lets look at this analysis below by Chris Hilker: What is Intelligent Dance Music? "Intelligent" gives a nod, obviously, to Warp Records' (UK) "Artificial Intelligence" releases. Let's take a close look at our copies of the 'Artificial Intelligence' compilation, shall we? (This compilation, WARP CD 6 in the UK, Wax Trax/Tee Vee Toons TVT 7203 in the US, is one of the very few definitive releases in this genre.) On the front cover, we see the subtitle: "Electronic Listening music from Warp". The picture on the front cover is of a humanoid figure reclining in a chair. From these two points, we can conclude that the music we're talking about is intended for *listening* - it may be danceable, and it may be influenced by current trends in more straightforward dance music, but it is intended more for your living room than your local club. Looking more closely at the cover pic, there are three album covers strewn on the floor of the figure's room: an early Kraftwerk record, Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon,' and Warp Records' first compilation, 'Pioneers of the Hypnotic Groove.' These, then, are three big influences in IDM: the electronica of Kraftwerk, the druggy self-indulgence of Floyd, and the funky bleepiness of Warp's early stuff (and techno, in the narrow sense of the word, in general). Moving on to the back cover, there are two bits of text, besides the tracklist, of interest: one, at the top left corner, asks "Are you Sitting comfortably?", the other, in the lower right, says "Artificial Intelligence is electronic 'Listening music' for Long journeys quiet nights and club drowsy dawns. Listen with an open mind." Again, and always, the focus is on listening, rather than dancing. Inside back cover: "Artificial Intelligence: electronic music for the mind created by trans-global electronic innovators who prove music is the one true international language. Real people whose unity lies in a common sound + spirit and whose 'listening music' cannot be described as either soulless or machine driven. The atmosphere and emotion both come from the musicians, their machines are merely the means to a human end." So as to prevent the list from becoming a hopeless barrage of flame mail over what is and is not "intelligent", the official stance will be that all opinions are to be respected - you are welcome to disagree and post your disagreements, but outright flames and name-calling are to be avoided. However, if you declare that "Rozalla is intelligent dance music", you should be willing and able to back it up - not just "because it obviously is".. Just remember that your mail goes into over 250 mail boxes worldwide therefore unrelated or unneccessary posts should be kept to an absolute minimum. The request address follows the same conventions as most other lists - i.e., idm-request@techno.stanford.edu is where you mail to. Send mail there with the word 'help' in the message body and it'll give you instructions on how to subscribe and unsubscribe, get a list of members, etc. Regular list mail should be sent to idm@techno.stanford.edu, and you can contact the list admins at idm-owner@techno.stanford.edu. Also available now is the related list IDM-Reviews - for those who just want the music reviews rather than all the related discussion. The reviews are sent out periodically as they appear on the IDM list or mailed to the listowner. IDM-Reviews format is as above, just interchange idm with idm-reviews for mailing commands. It is recommended that you read the IDM archives, at least for the last couple of months, before posting to the list. These can be read through gopher or FTP at technno.stanford.edu under pub/raves/music/idm. The techno.stanford site has an extensive archive which contains a plethora of information and can answer many of your questions. It is an invaluable resource and I recommend that you use it and familiarise yourself with its use. As of yet, there is no FAQ, but if you feel compelled to write one, feel free :) Alan M. Parry (fluid@freezer.cns.udel.edu) Brian Behlendorf (bbehlen@techno.stanford.edu) _______ (__,-, \ / /\ \ f l u i d <finger me for PGP key> /,_) \ \ flu'id (floo'-) (/ \\ brit@chopin.udel.edu :65 FD F9 9F F2 23 F8 CF: \) fluid@freezer.cns.udel.edu :80 9C 11 AA 9F 92 0D 27:

From the cyberdesk of: flu'id

quoted 12 lines Ok...the new welcome message is finally installed, so I thought id put

> Ok...the new welcome message is finally installed, so I thought id put > it up here just one more time. We also have some new guests subscribed :) > have fun.. > > [begin message] > > > dMP dMMMMb dMMMMMMMMb > amr dMP VMP dMP"dMP"dMP > dMP dMP dMP dMP dMP dMP Welcome to IDM > dMP dMP.aMP dMP dMP dMP > dMP dMMMMP" dMP dMP dMP the Intelligent Dance Music mailing list.

[message deleted] [yawn] First off, nice introduction, but I have some minor critiques and kudos to slosh around.

quoted 3 lines As always, however, there are no specific boundaries by which we

> As always, however, there are no specific boundaries by which we > are able to define what is and what isn't Intelligent Dance Music. To > begin with, lets look at this analysis below by Chris Hilker:

...

quoted 2 lines ... Again, and always, the focus is on listening, rather than dancing.

> ... Again, and always, the focus is on listening, rather than dancing. > ... 'listening music'

Umm, so why call it the I*D*M list? Why didn't you call it the I*L*M (Intelligent _Listening_ Music)? It _is_ a nice and well written piece on the AI CD cover art and track selection, however. So why not include a more "inclusive" tone and mentioning other labels and artists besides those on the AI CD (Rick James, Orb, Seefeel, Reload, Ultramarine, FAX, Astralwerks, Eye-Q, Harthouse, etc.) to show how the IDM-list has "progressed" as the music has grown, both intellectually and in popularity since the IDM-list's inception. Reading this intro, it comes off as "the Warp AI CD Fan Club". I mean, the whole cover art analysis is a bit obsessive on first read. It isn't *that* significant a disk in the overall soundscape of IDM listening. That is _not_ to say it is *in*-significant, just not as important to warrant three screenfuls of analysis, when there are other things to mention to indicate the breadth and depth of our collective musical interests and foster an atmosphere of sharing with others our discoveries of the "Thinking Man's Dance Music"(tm). I tend to couch my perceptions of what IDM is in terms of that phrase, rather than the proslytizing "sit down, chill out, meditate on this CD called "Artificial Intelligence" - It's good for you" tone promoted by this piece. I think we should focus on the networking aspect of this list in our intro statement. It is a great place to *communicate* with others who like upbeat soundscapes of electronic-based contemporary music whose sucess is created by the craft and skill of the artists and not their label's marketing department. And that level of craft and skill is judged by us, the listeners, on an individual and very subjective basis. We are subject to biases based on our life-experiences, listening environment, social cultures, friends and opinions from people on this list and not on this list. But the one thing we have in common is the exploratory urge to cogitate on these things, banish ignorance, and listen anyway. In compensation for that effort to seek out and listen to music outside of the mainstream, we are entertained, converse, wiggle a bit, and engaged on both a mental and physical level by the efforts of the artist in conveying such a "warm fuzzy" through their music. At some point, however, we can easily decompose into an "elitist" stance, simply because we are _not_ part of the mainstream in musical tastes if we are not careful. Issues of this "elitism" or bandied terms like "sellout", "truly underground", or "rave clone" can cloud our focus. We are here to discuss the electronic music that we enjoy intellectually and physically.

quoted 5 lines So as to prevent the list from becoming a hopeless barrage of flame

> So as to prevent the list from becoming a hopeless barrage of flame > mail over what is and is not "intelligent", the official stance will > be that all opinions are to be respected - you are welcome to disagree > and post your disagreements, but outright flames and name-calling are > to be avoided.

Hey, I think that the Rozalla CD has some really deep cover art, too. It relates really well to the music. So why isn't it right up there with the AI CD on the IDM "worship-list"? 'Cuz having well thought out cover art isn't a criteria for being considered IDM. Personally, I don't consider AI "IDM" 'cuz it is missing the "D" in IDM. It qualifies for ILM (Intelligent Listening Music) and ICA (Intelligent Cover Art), but doesn't rank high on the "D" scale. I mean, I wouldn't play a single track from AI at any party where people are dancing and expect them to continue dancing once the track starts. So does that make it ICM (Intelligent Conversation Music) or IBM (Intelligent Background Music) or IW-SM (Intelligent While- Studying Music)? Have we become a discussion list revolving around the musical equivalent of the "Coffee Table Book-of-the-Month Club"? [I can just see this post on the new Warp "Artifical Intelligence 2" CD] ... Can we talk? The new AI-2 CD...is like...buttah. Did I mention it was like buttah? It should be on the "Land-O-Lakes" label instead of Warp, it is so definitively IDM. I am so....verklempt. [pause, take a deep breath.] Talk amongst yourselves. ... Enough babble. I just think IDM runs just fine without anybody saying what _is_ IDM or is _not_ IDM. I would say this to newcomers: dMP dMMMMb dMMMMMMMMb amr dMP VMP dMP"dMP"dMP dMP dMP dMP dMP dMP dMP Welcome to IDM dMP dMP.aMP dMP dMP dMP dMP dMMMMP" dMP dMP dMP the Intelligent Dance Music mailing list. The IDM list is virtual discussion about current electronic-based music, for listening, dancing, and cogitating to, not necessarily all three nor simultaneously (but it helps), covering a wide range of tempos, moods, and cultures. For the new subscribers we advocate that you listen in, and if IDM is what you've been looking for then stay a while and join the discussion. Please be courteous and respectful of your neighbors in the virtual village. Should you decide not to continue your participation, ... [insert unsub instructions]. That's it. Brief and to the point. And probably only one screen, to boot. We should probably have some sort of "You have reached the IDM Mailing List automated administrative mailbox (idm-request@wherever or whatever it is)" message with a "Valid commands" section. If they want a discussion of "AI Cover Art: Meaning and Relevance", I'm sure we can point them to Mr. Hilker's article in the archives. -------- Other topics:

quoted 5 lines Also available now is the related list IDM-Reviews - for those who just

> Also available now is the related list IDM-Reviews - for those who just > want the music reviews rather than all the related discussion. The > reviews are sent out periodically as they appear on the IDM list or > mailed to the listowner. IDM-Reviews format is as above, just interchange > idm with idm-reviews for mailing commands.

Anybody subbing to idm-reviews get anything different than the list? I'm considering getting on both lists, but don't know if it is just withering on the vine or what? I mean, was there really that much cross posting? And can I post to the review list, even though I am only on the main list? Is idm-reviews a moderated list, or is it a separate entity?

quoted 2 lines These can be read through gopher or FTP at technno.stanford.edu under

> These can be read through gopher or FTP at technno.stanford.edu under > pub/raves/music/idm.

I recently had the pleasure to browse the gopher at techno.stanford.edu using America On-Line. They've got a way to go on getting FTP access and their interface, but it sure beat e-mail. Way cool. I assume Brian is the link there? Keep up the good work. Hope to see more menus and documents available. I don't know if AOL maintains that or not, but it is looking good so far. Does AOL have some sort of automated process for building their gopher menus, or does someone at techno.stanford.edu do it? Please respond by email, not the list as this is sort of off-topic. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael King mike%delta1@rex.cs.tulane.edu Delta Systems New Orleans, LA 70002-4938 Voice: 504.837.9835 Fax: 504.837.9838 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- One in twelve people is mentally unstable. Think of your eleven closest friends; if they seem ok . . . . . ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I love the smell of flame-wars in the morning ;) On Fri, 20 May 1994, Michael King wrote:

quoted 2 lines Umm, so why call it the I*D*M list? Why didn't you call it the I*L*M

> Umm, so why call it the I*D*M list? Why didn't you call it the I*L*M > (Intelligent _Listening_ Music)?

Because ILM wouldnt cover everything I wanted to talk about..

quoted 3 lines Reading this intro, it comes off as "the Warp AI CD Fan Club". I mean, the

> Reading this intro, it comes off as "the Warp AI CD Fan Club". I mean, the > whole cover art analysis is a bit obsessive on first read. It isn't *that* > significant a disk in the overall soundscape of IDM listening.

Maybe not, but it is as Chris said, one of the truely definitive releases in the genre..

quoted 3 lines At some point, however, we can easily decompose into an "elitist" stance,

> At some point, however, we can easily decompose into an "elitist" stance, > simply because we are _not_ part of the mainstream in musical tastes if we > are not careful.

I think elitism also come with the territory. Lists such as this were created to escape arseholes on such forums as alt.rave and alt.music.techno which have bascially come down to the level of wanking over who has the biggest and most annoying sig now..

quoted 4 lines Hey, I think that the Rozalla CD has some really deep cover art, too. It

> Hey, I think that the Rozalla CD has some really deep cover art, too. It > relates really well to the music. So why isn't it right up there with the > AI CD on the IDM "worship-list"? 'Cuz having well thought out cover art > isn't a criteria for being considered IDM.

No, its not up there because its crap, and its not what id call a definitive release in the genre of idm. Would you?

quoted 3 lines I mean, I wouldn't play a single track from AI at any party where

> I mean, I wouldn't play a single track from AI at any party where > people are dancing and expect them to continue dancing once the track > starts.

Well, I think many on this list would. Listen, it might not be Rozalla, but it still danceable ;)

quoted 3 lines The IDM list is virtual discussion about current electronic-based music,

> The IDM list is virtual discussion about current electronic-based music, > for listening, dancing, and cogitating to, not necessarily all three nor > simultaneously (but it helps),

Bullshit. This covers everything from breakbeat to europop to gabber to trance to house to hardcore to ambient to techno to idm to pop to industrial. I didnt set up this list so we could talk about two unlimited, erasure, front242, moby, and lenny dee. If you want to talk about these, I suggest you subscribe to the appropriate lists.

quoted 1 line That's it. Brief and to the point.

> That's it. Brief and to the point.

See above.

quoted 2 lines Anybody subbing to idm-reviews get anything different than the list? I'm

> Anybody subbing to idm-reviews get anything different than the list? I'm > considering getting on both lists,

You don't need to be on both, you get everything idm-reviews gets here. _______ (__,-, \ / /\ \ f l u i d <finger me for PGP key> /,_) \ \ flu'id (floo'-) (/ \\ brit@chopin.udel.edu :65 FD F9 9F F2 23 F8 CF: \) fluid@freezer.cns.udel.edu :80 9C 11 AA 9F 92 0D 27:

On May 20, 2:12pm, Mike asked: } Anybody subbing to idm-reviews get anything different than the list? I'm } considering getting on both lists, but don't know if it is just withering on } the vine or what? I mean, was there really that much cross posting? } And can I post to the review list, even though I am only on the main list? } Is idm-reviews a moderated list, or is it a separate entity? There are a couple posts a week to idm-reviews, but they aren't anything that doesn't also appear on idm. Fluid, Chris, and I are the only ones who can post to the list, and if people try and post to it it gets forwarded to Fluid. I haven't seen any reviews on IDM that didn't make it to -reviews, and vice-versa, so it's been working out pretty well. Point is, you don't have to subscribe to both. } > These can be read through gopher or FTP at technno.stanford.edu under } > pub/raves/music/idm. } } I recently had the pleasure to browse the gopher at techno.stanford.edu } using America On-Line. They've got a way to go on getting FTP access and } their interface, but it sure beat e-mail. Way cool. I assume Brian is the } link there? Keep up the good work. Hope to see more menus and documents } available. I don't know if AOL maintains that or not, but it is looking good } so far. Does AOL have some sort of automated process for building their } gopher menus, or does someone at techno.stanford.edu do it? The archives at techno.stanford are primarily maintained by Mike Brown (ambient@techno.stanford.edu), and I do little things here and there. There's nothing specially done for AOL, AOL just decided to get smart and open up gopher access to the outside world (though they haven't allowed their users to do the same and becme publishers themselves, which is the bane of every large access provider except Netcom.) Expect to see a major overhaul of the site this summer, possibly including a move to a new home. Very possibly. :) Brian