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Re: [idm] RE: [microsound] indigestible food for thought

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2001-10-06 00:10Christopher Sorg [idm] RE: [microsound] indigestible food for thought
2001-10-06 18:58zachary mastoon Re: [idm] RE: [microsound] indigestible food for thought
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2001-10-06 00:10Christopher SorgExcerpts from M Mercer... > this argument doesn't necessarily apply to all microsound arti
From:
Christopher Sorg
To:
microsound
Cc:
IDM List
Date:
Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:10:17 -0500
Subject:
[idm] RE: [microsound] indigestible food for thought
permalink · <000101c14dfb$47adff40$99379418@balrog.rcnchicago.com>
Excerpts from M Mercer...
quoted 5 lines this argument doesn't necessarily apply to all microsound artists> this argument doesn't necessarily apply to all microsound artists > (or those > who tend to be considered as such), because it is a generalization to say > that all this music is strictly computer-based. In fact, some of it isn't > computer-based at all.
. . .
quoted 5 lines Then again, to criticize this loose group of digitally-based> Then again, to criticize this loose group of digitally-based > sound artists > for being technologically/media focused (if in fact that is their > intent at > all) seems irrelevant.
Keep in mind that this discussion began with some comments that Kim had made regarding the types of conversations present on this and the IDM newsgroup, for instance:
quoted 4 lines ...the US is sheltered>...the US is sheltered >from how others around the world see us and we need to wake up and start >questioning the political values we embrace and the values we export >through the media...
and
quoted 4 lines over the last couple of years the microsound list has degenerated into>over the last couple of years the microsound list has degenerated into >little more than a trainspotting fan-boy list that has little to do with >what the founders intended: to develop philosophical dialog about (post) >digital/glitch/microsound/etc music...
In my opinion, it isn't that all microsounders are hypocritical or that there is something inherently wrong with using the computer as a tool to create sound, or that the list crew are gear-whores or even that we're all materialist dogs. It's that it came from the mouth of a list member who expoused "(post) digital/glitch/microsound/etc music..." for its merits while denouncing other members for their "trainspotting fan-boy" attitude. In addition, Kim has made the "tool is the message" argument, that this type of music is absolutely reliant on technological advance, be it hardware or software. If that is the case, then love it or hate it, one could conclude that trainspotting and gear-whoring are a necessary part of that equation. What is interesting is how musicians actually get beyond the drooling over the equipment stage, and get on to making music. I mean, look at all the shit that Mouse on Mars hauls to a show, or consider all the different equipment and software that Mr. Cascone has experienced and experimented with (Max/MSP, csound, the Lucas ranch, definitely all top of the line, cutting edge stuff). Aphex Twin playing around with image->sound software, Autechre with their Kyma's, Nords and Max/MSP, Plaid with their shiny titanium Macs. Perhaps an important question to ask is whether this music is really going beyond the technology and entering the "music as message" mode or does it reinforce "tool as message". Many people on the IDM list have complained that Aphex Twin is no longer "cutting edge" and that Autechre's Confield is less listenable. There haven't been any particular revolutions in software and hardware for audio in a few years, at least not as drastic as the mass distribution of PCs available for multimedia production and the expansion of laptop performance (which has been going on for well over four years). I'm not suggesting that the artist had a lesser role in the development in this type of music, in fact, it was absolutely necessary for artists to latch on to the technology and expose it for its value beyond gaming and spreadsheets. It could be, however, that the novelty is wearing off and now we're looking beyond how this or that software sounds, that we are becoming familiar with that aspect of it. I just don't think its helpful to sing praise and then turn around and be blithely hypocritical about the situation. It is probably helpful and necessary to recognize that this form of art is still an elite practice, although less so than in the days of John Cage and David Tudor; the tools no longer exist solely in the realm of academia. It is safe to say that microsound and IDM have fed off of the developments in highly academic settings like Steim and IRCAM, an elite pursuit to be sure. Do I think that focusing on gear and being a fan-boy is annoying and gossipy? Of course. Do I believe that it is a part of the development of this sort of music? Yes. If the misinformation and flaming aren't taken too far, then the process is educational. If no one asked about what Kyma was, what's Max/MSP, how did they do that vocoding thing, etc, etc, no one would branch out and experiment with those things and take them to the next level, (perhaps poetry, metaphor?) which is what I'm assuming some of the musicians out there are now doing. I guess it's okay to take the low art into the high art world, like writing about glitch in an MIT press publication, but we wouldn't want the heathens arguing about techniques used by the avant garde. What was Kim complaining about anyhow? ___________________________ Christopher Sorg Multimedia Artist/Instructor http://www.enteract.com/~csorg csorg@enteract.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-10-06 18:58zachary mastoon>It is safe to say that >microsound and IDM have fed off of the developments in highly aca
From:
zachary mastoon
To:
,
Cc:
Date:
Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:58:55 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] RE: [microsound] indigestible food for thought
permalink · <F207KElzHkggHwEAPcD00016734@hotmail.com>
quoted 3 lines It is safe to say that>It is safe to say that >microsound and IDM have fed off of the developments in highly academic >settings like Steim and IRCAM, an elite pursuit to be sure.
can you fill me in? what is Steim and IRCAM? thx, z. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org