IDM Mailing Archive

<rant> Well I'm sure glad I didn't spend $400 on an MP3 jukebox ! What about that whole aspect of the debate? There are products being sold on the market today for playing MP3's. If CD's are built to disable this then isn't it disabling another sector of the marketplace as well? Are we to assume that the only people creating MP3's are those with 'original content'. Could they fill up 2gigs on a jukebox with it? WTF? What's the point? Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music I'm getting really sick of the lack of fidelity in a 128kbps MP3. It does not sound rich. It sounds dull. To me it is just a high-quality preview. If I actually like the album I'll just go out and buy it. </rant> Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul ----- Original Message ----- From: Mxyzptlk To: Howard Shih Cc: idm@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [idm] copy protection Well, they're either poorly mastered or copy protected. They won't rip well at all or even track for playing on the cd-rom. Some great stuff on the label, btw. jeff At 02:21 PM 8/14/2001, Howard Shih wrote: >On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote: > > Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > >I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of >until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. > >hs

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote:

quoted 13 lines <rant>

> <rant> > Well I'm sure glad I didn't spend $400 on an MP3 jukebox ! > > What about that whole aspect of the debate? > There are products being sold on the market today for playing MP3's. > If CD's are built to disable this then isn't it disabling another >sector of the marketplace as well? Are we to assume that the only people > creating MP3's are those with 'original content'. Could they fill up > 2gigs on a jukebox with it? > > WTF? > > What's the point?

I definitely agree with this... I forget which Illuminati or powers that be are at the forefront of all this copyrighted CD nonsense, but it is ridiculous that these same powers could also be indirectly behind marketing the same Mp3 playing gadgets that would be rendered moot by the former anyway. On one hand, one argument offered behind copyright CDs is that it curbs the speed at which music is copied more than prevent it altogether. On the other hand, what's the point of trying to retard the inevitable? (CDplayer --> audio out --> audio in --> computer.... no digital watermarking can prevent this method of copying... whatever slight resampling differences occur)

quoted 4 lines Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music

> Personally, although I love the access to such a wide range of music >I'm getting really sick of the lack of fidelity in a 128kbps MP3. It does >not sound rich. It sounds dull. To me it is just a high-quality preview. >If I actually like the album I'll just go out and buy it.

Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a compressed, downloadable music file format? I'm not an RIAA apologist -- but I think it would be naive to think that Mp3s were created for the purpose of digitally archiving music at high quality. (Not to call you one of those naive people, Mista Beats... just speaking rhetorically)

quoted 2 lines </rant>

> > </rant>

======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 08/14/01, Brian MacDonald wrote:

quoted 7 lines Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a

> > Heh. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this one of the main motifs of having a > compressed, downloadable music file format? I'm not an RIAA apologist -- > but I think it would be naive to think that Mp3s were created for the > purpose of digitally archiving music at high quality. (Not to call you > one of those naive people, Mista Beats... just speaking rhetorically) >

Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. RIAA apologist. - wells oliver || wells@submute.net "I wouldn't know because I don't read, but I'll tell you one thing for sure: I wouldn't trust no words written down on no piece of paper especially from no Dickinson out in the town of Machine. You're just as likely to find your own grave." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:

quoted 2 lines Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know

> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know > you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist.

actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows me to do this. the difference is in WHO is breaking this license. the RIAA by ASSUMING we're not going to comply to the license? or those who ACTUALLY DO make/distribute copies? i could be wrong, but i think you actually have to commit a crime before penalties can be put on you for comiting it. copy-proof CDs are essentialy a PREEMPTIVE-PENALTY against consumers. and that, i believe is illegal in and of itself. -j --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 08/14/01 4:45 PM, j snod at jordan@actualsize.com wrote:

quoted 26 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:

> > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote: >> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know >> you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. > > actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by > manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make > as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal > use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part > of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows > me to do this. > > the difference is in WHO is breaking this license. the RIAA by > ASSUMING we're not going to comply to the license? or those who ACTUALLY > DO make/distribute copies? i could be wrong, but i think you actually > have to commit a crime before penalties can be put on you for comiting > it. copy-proof CDs are essentialy a PREEMPTIVE-PENALTY against consumers. > and that, i believe is illegal in and of itself. > > -j > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

Word to that! We do know of the "guilty until proven innocent". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote:

quoted 4 lines Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know

> Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know > you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. > > RIAA apologist.

Listen, Hetfield, you better get the fuck back into the clinic before the happy people that take care of you and put things in you have to become the unhappy people. ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the Elektrolux label are copy-protected. It seems that this may indeed spread beyond the Snoop Doggy Dog market - or, rather, has. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote:

quoted 4 lines Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the

> Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > It seems that this may indeed spread beyond the Snoop Doggy Dog market - > or, rather, has.

I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. hs --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Well, they're either poorly mastered or copy protected. They won't rip well at all or even track for playing on the cd-rom. Some great stuff on the label, btw. jeff At 02:21 PM 8/14/2001, Howard Shih wrote:

quoted 8 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Mxyzptlk wrote: > > Just a bit of thought-fodder. It seems that several of the CDs on the > > Elektrolux label are copy-protected. > >I thought it was only that country guy you've never heard of >until now... Charley Pride that had his cd 'copy-protected'. > >hs

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Hear Hear ! Another beautiful point ! I like to make backups of my cd's so I keep the original in mint condition (for my collection) and then use the burnt copy in my car. As im sure at LEAST one of you knows - there is nothing quite like having your car broken into and 200 of your most prized IDM (and irreplaceable) CD's stolen ! Shimone/Justes http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul ----- Original Message ----- From: j snod To: idm@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 2:45 PM Subject: Re: [idm] copy protection (rant) On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, wells wrote: > Why do you have to lie about it? You know you're an RIAA apologist. I know > you're an RIAA apologist. Everyone knows you're an RIAA apologist. actually, making MP3s is irrelevant to this argument.. by manufacturing copy-proof CDs, the RIAA is infringing on my right to make as many copies of a CD as i want/need, provided it's only for personal use, and provided i purchased the original. here is the real issue. part of what i pay for when i purchase a CD is a limited license which allows me to do this. the difference is in WHO is breaking this license. the RIAA by ASSUMING we're not going to comply to the license? or those who ACTUALLY DO make/distribute copies? i could be wrong, but i think you actually have to commit a crime before penalties can be put on you for comiting it. copy-proof CDs are essentialy a PREEMPTIVE-PENALTY against consumers. and that, i believe is illegal in and of itself. -j

you know, a friend of mine recently had his car stolen. He added up the value of all the CDs and by going on various CD retailers online it added up to around $1500 to replace the music. The insurance company gave him $200. what's the lesson here? find a cheaper hobby than music? i dunno On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote:

quoted 13 lines Hear Hear !

> Hear Hear ! > > Another beautiful point ! > > I like to make backups of my cd's so I keep the original in mint > condition (for my collection) and then use the burnt copy in my car. > As im sure at LEAST one of you knows - there is nothing quite like > having your car broken into and 200 of your most prized IDM (and > irreplaceable) CD's stolen ! > > Shimone/Justes > http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind > http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul

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quoted 8 lines you know, a friend of mine recently had his car stolen. He added up the

> you know, a friend of mine recently had his car stolen. He added up the > value of all the CDs and by going on various CD retailers online it added > up to around $1500 to replace the music. The insurance company gave him > $200. > > what's the lesson here? > > find a cheaper hobby than music? i dunno

that reminds me of the crusade the Hole singer is on - basically the question being, if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so goddamned poor (and I mean, like the big famous ones, some of them are making 30 grand a year at best - not that I wouldn't take that - more than I make now, and a funner career), then where the hell is all the money going?

quoted 24 lines On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote:

> > > > On Tue, 14 Aug 2001, Static Beats wrote: > > > Hear Hear ! > > > > Another beautiful point ! > > > > I like to make backups of my cd's so I keep the original in mint > > condition (for my collection) and then use the burnt copy in my car. > > As im sure at LEAST one of you knows - there is nothing quite like > > having your car broken into and 200 of your most prized IDM (and > > irreplaceable) CD's stolen ! > > > > Shimone/Justes > > http://www.staticbeats.com | Electronic Music For The Mind > > http://www.shimone.org | Pictures From The Soul > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 2 lines if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so

> if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so > goddamned poor... then where the hell is all the money going?

Well that's rhetorical. (the record companies) I know musicians who recorded their own CDs and built up a regular following to sell to, who later signed in order to make it "big." They made less money selling a hundred thousand cds through a label than when they just sold 500-1000 themselves to their fans. -matT nashville.tn np://Headz 2/Source Direct/The Silent Witness/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

The money goes to supports the huge and clunky infrastructure of major labels making money on about 5% of their acts. Don't be to sympathetic. It's a bad contract sure, but they signed it. Eyes glazed over with visions of fame makes for blindness to the fine print. Jeff on 8/14/01 5:18 PM, Aaron Trumm at aaron@nquit.com wrote:

quoted 5 lines that reminds me of the crusade the Hole singer is on - basically the

> that reminds me of the crusade the Hole singer is on - basically the > question being, if music is so goddamned expensive, yet musicians are so > goddamned poor (and I mean, like the big famous ones, some of them are > making 30 grand a year at best - not that I wouldn't take that - more than I > make now, and a funner career), then where the hell is all the money going?

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quoted 2 lines Eyes glazed over with visions of fame

> Eyes glazed over with visions of fame > makes for blindness to the fine print.

Which raises an important point: fame != money People lust after fame in lieu of money, which explains another poster's comment about artists developing a following, and then making it "big" and making less money than they did when they were just peddling their music by themselves. Fame (or noteriety?) is a sexy beast... Even (or especially!) if you're a "real artist" - having an impact on a greater number of people could be more important than collectin' tha doe. re mi fa... Anyways, doesn't this discussion belong on /.? Speaking of which, here's an (slightly relevant) article I saw there a few months ago: http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/Napster/20010227_P2P_Copyright_White_Paper.html It talks about fair use and whatnot - maybe, if yer actually interested in this issue, searching for "real" information (with footnotes and references) would suit you better than trolling for suspiscious factoids provided by biased music fans! ;) Love and kibbles, -Adam --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

See, the burr in my fur about all of this is not that I can't copy prerecorded music, legally or otherwise, but that a government sanctioned institution is working towards monopolistic control of recording formats in general. Once this copy-protection shit is in full effect, how is an unsigned artist / home recorder supposed to get his material recognized except by going through the "official" corporate channels? I've built up my entire career on the internet and the mp3 format -- I'm not a hugely recognized artist, but I've got some fans and some clout, which I never would have been able to accomplish in the old days of demo tapes and college radio. I'm not worried though. One hacker is worth 30000 Microsoft engineers, and anything that can be encoded can be always be cracked. They did it with DVD, they'll do it with whatever else comes down the pike. What is needed is legislation that recognizes that people are sick and tired of HAVING to go illegal routes because the corporations' money controls the flow of governmental regulation. In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system on rubble. IMHO m@2zo www.thechisa.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines From: The Chisa [mailto:matt@holland.deathhouse.net]

> From: The Chisa [mailto:matt@holland.deathhouse.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 6:49 PM > > in general. Once this copy-protection shit is in full effect, how is an > unsigned artist / home recorder supposed to get his material recognized

I'm confused - who's keeping anyone from listening to yer MP3s or a poor indie label's "unprotected" CDs (& vinyl!)? Who's working against you? Unless I'm greatly misinformed, it's not as if people will only be allowed to purchase music from these certain channels - they can still go get your MP3s if you want to let them download them, or go buy that old []pshr vinyl if it's still fer sale.

quoted 1 line except by going through the "official" corporate channels? I've built up

> except by going through the "official" corporate channels? I've built up

there are "official" corporate channels *now*, but you don't have to participate in them.

quoted 2 lines In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system

> In short: buy nothing, steal everything, destroy system, build new system > on rubble. IMHO

My arrogant opinion is this: pay for what you think is worth paying for, don't listen to what you think isn't (if it's not worth paying for, why listen to it? if it ain't worth yer time, is it worth yer money, which you worked hard for?) There are multiple systems in place, and you can participate in the ones in which you wish to participate. There's some music legally offered for free that I think is great, and plenty of music not legally offered for free that I choose not to listen to because it's not worth it. Of course, it's nice to be able to hear music before paying for it, but that's a niche that's been filled already... People who want to build a new system on the rubble of the old are usually interested in controlling the new system themselves ... rebel leaders becoming dictators, etc. Power doesn't corrupt, it attracts the corruptible. Not saying you want to be what you hate, just saying that I don't understand what's working against you to keep you from doing what you're already doing in the first place. -Adam --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org