IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 1 line ===== Original Message From Neujinn01@aol.com =====

>===== Original Message From Neujinn01@aol.com =====

quoted 5 lines I DO think it's a VERY difficult thing to pull off well, and I think

> I DO think it's a VERY difficult thing to pull off well, and I think >that it'll probably be more prone to fail than fly at this point. > But hey, like I said, IDM if ever moving forward. Maybe I just haven't >met the artist who, for me, will bridge the gap between these two very >divergent styles.

I actually agree on this. I try to track down as much hip-hop as stuff that gets talked about on this list, and find that most anything I've heard that was produced by this-listy producers falls down. I don't like Funkstoerung, so I guess my opinion is coming from quite a different set of values than those who've rated or rejected their recent mix efforts. The thing I wanted to add to this follows what Andrew Schrock said re: the production of eg. Blackalicious and the Anti-pop Consortium being really contemporary with "electronic" stuff. Most people I know who are sold on hip-hop see one of its key characteristics being that it pushes boundaries. Because of that, hip-hoppers don't say "that's not hip-hop, it's IDM with an MC", they say "this is taking hip-hop to the next level". So the stuff that comes from within the hip-hop community isn't necessarily picked up on as IDM-friendly, because the very characteristics of the genre include the fact that it constantly changes. Disclaimers: yeah, I'm generalising (obviously what the mainstream calls for is the complete opposite of the above); I use the word "community" with hesitation, etc. etc. :-) Michael np. 'Innervisions' - Stevie Wonder -+- Involve Records http://involve.co.nz Jet Jaguar MP3s http://mp3.com/jetjag/ -+- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hip hop that pushes the limit: (top five imho) 1. DJ Krush - Kakusei (Sony) 2. Company Flow - Little Johnny from the Hospitul (Rawkus) 3. The Roots - Things Fall Apart (MCA) 4. Mos Def/Talib Kweli - Black Star (Rawkus) 5. Mos Def - Black on Both Sides (Rawkus) jsoh -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 24 May 2000, Michael Upton wrote:

quoted 3 lines The thing I wanted to add to this follows what Andrew Schrock said re: the

> The thing I wanted to add to this follows what Andrew Schrock said re: the > production of eg. Blackalicious and the Anti-pop Consortium being really > contemporary with "electronic" stuff.

I haven't heard the Anti-Pop Consortium, but I do have a collection of Blackalicious records... and frankly, I really don't see how they're all that different from, say, the early 90s "native tongue" family of hip-hop groups like A Tribe Called Quest or De La or Blacksheep. (In fact, the main rapper's voice certainly has that awesome nasal quality like Dres from Blacksheep)... Sure, they're on Mo Wax.. and they happen to hire as remixers this-listy folks like Cut Chemist, Aphrodite (don't know if jungle is considered this-listy or not).. but other than that, just an outstanding hip-hop group (which is a rare thing these days)... and nothing more "IDM" than other hip-hop groups. If you haven't already done so, I HIGHLY recommend checking some of the Bay Area folks like El Stew, Eddie Def, Space Travelers, bladdy bladdy blah... If any group, it's this gang that seems closest to the fusion of hip-hop sounds and this-listy type music... and they pull it off without a single hitch, and maximum booty momentum at that. Check out El Stew's "No Hesitation" (the green record), V/A "Deep Concentration" and "Deeper Concentration" compilations for more... ======================================================================= Brian MacDonald <brianm@kuci.org> KUCI 88.9 fM in Irvine, CA -- Orange County ======================================================================= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Hi, It's a pretty good selection of pretty good music. For once I'm not posting to disagree. But could you please tell me how The Roots, Mos Def and Black Star manage to push the limit ? I like what they do but can't see why they're considered inovators. Thanks, Jr ----- Original Message ----- From: Josh Davison <yoshi@enteract.com> To: Michael Upton <jetjag@MailAndNews.com> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 4:57 PM Subject: RE: [idm] More on Rap in IDM. . .

quoted 23 lines Hip hop that pushes the limit:

> > Hip hop that pushes the limit: > (top five imho) > > 1. DJ Krush - Kakusei (Sony) > 2. Company Flow - Little Johnny from the Hospitul (Rawkus) > 3. The Roots - Things Fall Apart (MCA) > 4. Mos Def/Talib Kweli - Black Star (Rawkus) > 5. Mos Def - Black on Both Sides (Rawkus) > > jsoh > > > -- > String Theory : Digital Music for Humans > http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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good point. i guess i was just making the generalization that since i like 'em they push the limit... but let me see if i cam rationalize that. the roots definitely push the limits of hip hop in their live act by using REAL instruments (and rather well i might add) and their production is pretty adventurous for commercial hip hop (they're on MCA, it's commercial) ... i mean in comparison to fucking Puff Daddy or Dr. Dre they are definitely pushing boundaries same thing with Mos Def/Black Star ... these two records use a lot of sounds that traditional hip hoppers wouldn't be adventurous enough to try. in general, a lot of hip hop is pretty conservative ... there's a formula and they stick to it. my point is these records break the rules ... case in point: B Boys will B Boys on Black Star uses old school breaks and rhyming, which isn't really pushing the envelope in the sense that its never been done before, but it is in the sense that it isn't done *anymore* ... until now anyway the Mos Def song 'Umi Says' kinda has some drum-n-bass influence (well really it feels like drum n bass because drum-n-bass goes for that jazzy feel ... anyway i shut up now). basically it could be an out-take from a Good Looking joint... which again isn't really pushing the limit of anything but trad hip hop so uh now i justified myself. but i could still agree with the sentiment that Mos Def/Black Star/Roots certainly aren't pushing the limits as much as Co Flow and Krush josh -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi On Wed, 24 May 2000, jre wrote:

quoted 47 lines Hi,

> Hi, > It's a pretty good selection of pretty good music. For once I'm not posting > to disagree. > But could you please tell me how The Roots, Mos Def and Black Star manage to > push the limit ? I like what they do but can't see why they're considered > inovators. > > Thanks, > Jr > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Josh Davison <yoshi@enteract.com> > To: Michael Upton <jetjag@MailAndNews.com> > Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 4:57 PM > Subject: RE: [idm] More on Rap in IDM. . . > > > > > > Hip hop that pushes the limit: > > (top five imho) > > > > 1. DJ Krush - Kakusei (Sony) > > 2. Company Flow - Little Johnny from the Hospitul (Rawkus) > > 3. The Roots - Things Fall Apart (MCA) > > 4. Mos Def/Talib Kweli - Black Star (Rawkus) > > 5. Mos Def - Black on Both Sides (Rawkus) > > > > jsoh > > > > > > -- > > String Theory : Digital Music for Humans > > http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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only problem is that all the people you have mentioned are just recycling the undeground hiphop sound of 94-97, while adding a little more through the use of modern technology. i belive the proper subject for your message should be "pushing the limits of commercial hiphop" they are by no means pushing the limits of hiphop, there is much better and more experimental stuff out there.... try www.sandboxautomatic.com they have a wide selection, that should show you that those guys are really nothing more than underground people that got lucky enough to sellout. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Davison" <yoshi@enteract.com> To: "jre" <jre@libertysurf.fr> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [idm] More on Rap in IDM. . .

quoted 41 lines good point. i guess i was just making the generalization that since i

> > good point. i guess i was just making the generalization that since i > like 'em they push the limit... but let me see if i cam rationalize that. > > the roots definitely push the limits of hip hop in their live act by using > REAL instruments (and rather well i might add) and their production is > pretty adventurous for commercial hip hop (they're on MCA, it's > commercial) ... i mean in comparison to fucking Puff Daddy or Dr. Dre they > are definitely pushing boundaries > > same thing with Mos Def/Black Star ... these two records use a lot of > sounds that traditional hip hoppers wouldn't be adventurous enough to try. > in general, a lot of hip hop is pretty conservative ... there's a formula > and they stick to it. my point is these records break the rules ... case > in point: B Boys will B Boys on Black Star uses old school breaks and > rhyming, which isn't really pushing the envelope in the sense that its > never been done before, but it is in the sense that it isn't done > *anymore* ... until now anyway > > the Mos Def song 'Umi Says' kinda has some drum-n-bass influence (well > really it feels like drum n bass because drum-n-bass goes for that jazzy > feel ... anyway i shut up now). basically it could be an out-take from a > Good Looking joint... which again isn't really pushing the limit of > anything but trad hip hop > > so uh now i justified myself. but i could still agree with the sentiment > that Mos Def/Black Star/Roots certainly aren't pushing the limits as much > as Co Flow and Krush > > josh > > > -- > String Theory : Digital Music for Humans > http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi > > > On Wed, 24 May 2000, jre wrote: > > > Hi, > > It's a pretty good selection of pretty good music. For once I'm not

posting

quoted 2 lines to disagree.

> > to disagree. > > But could you please tell me how The Roots, Mos Def and Black Star

manage to

quoted 1 line push the limit ? I like what they do but can't see why they're

> > push the limit ? I like what they do but can't see why they're

considered

quoted 49 lines inovators.

> > inovators. > > > > Thanks, > > Jr > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Josh Davison <yoshi@enteract.com> > > To: Michael Upton <jetjag@MailAndNews.com> > > Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 4:57 PM > > Subject: RE: [idm] More on Rap in IDM. . . > > > > > > > > > > Hip hop that pushes the limit: > > > (top five imho) > > > > > > 1. DJ Krush - Kakusei (Sony) > > > 2. Company Flow - Little Johnny from the Hospitul (Rawkus) > > > 3. The Roots - Things Fall Apart (MCA) > > > 4. Mos Def/Talib Kweli - Black Star (Rawkus) > > > 5. Mos Def - Black on Both Sides (Rawkus) > > > > > > jsoh > > > > > > > > > -- > > > String Theory : Digital Music for Humans > > > http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Maybe someone mentioned 'em already, but I think Jurassic 5 are the *best* hip-hop outfit on the planet -- best rhymes, best beats, best productions, hands down. Their EP from 1996 has gotten more airplay on my CD player than any other hip-hop I own, and their first full-length Quality Control is incredible as well (it's not out yet, but look for it on June 6)... .John. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org