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Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth

5 messages · 5 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) klunko · (idm) oooh look, a myth
1999-12-06 22:20Guai Lo Re: (idm) klunko
1999-12-07 00:52david turgeon Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
└─ 1999-12-07 00:26John Bergmayer Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
1999-12-07 04:46Superfuzz Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
1999-12-07 08:18Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
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1999-12-06 22:20Guai Lo>i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is >universally good
From:
Guai Lo
To:
david turgeon
Cc:
Kent williams , ,
Date:
Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:20:36 -0600
Subject:
Re: (idm) klunko
permalink · <001801bf4038$1ff59e40$9ea9aec7@p2s9v5>
quoted 3 lines i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is>i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is >universally good much more irrational. do you believe in santa claus >too? the tooth fairy?
Um.. you're getting a little surreal for me here.. I didn't say anything about a 'form' of music much less a mythical form of music. You're obviously too caught up in the genre to understand what I meant by good and bad music. If you are one of these people that thinks just because some untalented hack that can afford a Kurzweil and a drum machine rips an mp3 of his "work" consisting of 10 minutes of improvised nonsense with no structure, theme, or direction, then I guess you'll never understand the point I was trying to make. I don't claim to be some kind of music scholar, but I know slop when I hear it. By the way this has nothing to do with Klunko, I haven't heard the stuff yet, I'm downloading the first song on the page as I type this.
quoted 3 lines it's just that one is more civilized than the other. but it'll be a>> >it's just that one is more civilized than the other. but it'll be a >> >while before every aol.com toddler understands such a thing. >> I love how everyone assumes that because somebody has bad manners, they
are
quoted 4 lines incapable of using their computer as well as polite people.>> incapable of using their computer as well as polite people. > >in the case of aol.com users, this generalization is unfortunately right >90% of the time.
Gee, if I apply that logic to any other group of people, it's probably considered racism, homophobia, nationalism, or chauvinism. Unless you personally spoke to each user of AOL, maybe you should keep your 'stats' to yourself or you could possibly come off as an elitist bigot.
quoted 6 lines as for the artists who dread such criticism: take it lightly. most>> >as for the artists who dread such criticism: take it lightly. most >> >people don't know the first thing about what you do even if you sell 5 >> >million copies ~ hell, _especially_ if you sell 5 million copies. >> I'm with you on this one. > >too bad, because i pulled that out of my ass.
I'm not surprised. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-07 00:52david turgeonGuai Lo wrote: > >i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is
From:
david turgeon
To:
Guai Lo
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:52:18 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
permalink · <384C5A42.EC034691@evolutiontech.com>
Guai Lo wrote:
quoted 4 lines i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is> >i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is > >universally good much more irrational. do you believe in santa claus > >too? the tooth fairy? > Um.. you're getting a little surreal for me here..
'abstract' is the word you're looking for. your argument is in fact technically closer to surrealism.
quoted 2 lines I didn't say anything> I didn't say anything > about a 'form' of music much less a mythical form of music.
you said that there was bad music & good music, which exactly amounts to what i've translated your sentence to say.
quoted 3 lines You're> You're > obviously too caught up in the genre to understand what I meant by good and > bad music.
caught up in what genre? idm? i feel like i've been mostly into electroacoustics recently, but if you say so...
quoted 5 lines If you are one of these people that thinks just because some> If you are one of these people that thinks just because some > untalented hack that can afford a Kurzweil and a drum machine rips an mp3 of > his "work" consisting of 10 minutes of improvised nonsense with no > structure, theme, or direction, then I guess you'll never understand the > point I was trying to make.
i understand the point you're trying to make, otherwise i wouldn't have deconstructed it into something else. as for the 10 minutes of improvised nonsense, whether you'll end up liking it or not has more to do with psychology than musical theory. 'good' music in the musical theory sense may amount to something, but it has nothing to do with how enjoyable any given person will think it is. another problem with your argument is that it doesn't apply to any statistically relevant real-world situation. how often do you think someone just goes & release what they think is crap? so even those 10 minutes of nonsense have to please _someone_, even if it's the guy who made them. additionally, you seem to be a bit biased against 'improvisation' & musical nonsense. can you imagine that such music can be analyzed & celebrated just as much as can sheet music that took its composer 10 years to get done with? spontaneity in music is certainly undervalued by 'scholars', but it doesn't make it bad. isn't it brian eno who admired music made by total non-musicians, if only for the impressive range of imagination displayed in it? there's no way we can say it's inherently _bad_ just because the guy can't play.
quoted 2 lines I don't claim to be some kind of music scholar,> I don't claim to be some kind of music scholar, > but I know slop when I hear it.
& that shall be, forever, your sole & mere opinion & nothing else. no matter how huge the book you'll write to prove that wrong.
quoted 6 lines in the case of aol.com users, this generalization is unfortunately right> >in the case of aol.com users, this generalization is unfortunately right > >90% of the time. > Gee, if I apply that logic to any other group of people, it's probably > considered racism, homophobia, nationalism, or chauvinism. Unless you > personally spoke to each user of AOL, maybe you should keep your 'stats' to > yourself or you could possibly come off as an elitist bigot.
right, i'll just disregard 6 years of dealing with them on the internet so as to make you politically-correctly happy.
quoted 6 lines as for the artists who dread such criticism: take it lightly. most> >> >as for the artists who dread such criticism: take it lightly. most > >> >people don't know the first thing about what you do even if you sell 5 > >> >million copies ~ hell, _especially_ if you sell 5 million copies. > >> I'm with you on this one. > >too bad, because i pulled that out of my ass. > I'm not surprised.
i have to say i shouldn't have said something so gratuitous, but i'm having a rather stupid day. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-07 00:26John Bergmayer> > >i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is > > >universa
From:
John Bergmayer
To:
david turgeon
Cc:
Guai Lo ,
Date:
Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:26:02 +0000
Subject:
Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
Reply to:
Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
permalink · <Pine.3.89.9912070013.C31562-0100000@ez0.ezlink.com>
quoted 4 lines i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is> > >i would find thinking that there is some mythical form of music that is > > >universally good much more irrational. do you believe in santa claus > > >too? the tooth fairy? > > Um.. you're getting a little surreal for me here..
music is similar to language. it is as impossible to have a single piece of music loved by all as it is to have a book that is comprehensible in all human languages, and which says something that all people find pleasant. this does not mean that objective criteria on which to judge music are impossible: just that which criterion to employ in a specific circumstance is subjective. -J. e-dog, peace out muthafuka --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-07 04:46Superfuzz----- Original Message ----- From: "david turgeon" <david@evolutiontech.com> To: "Guai Lo"
From:
Superfuzz
To:
Date:
Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:46:36 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
permalink · <058801bf406e$0e469470$1400a8c0@WORKGROUP>
----- Original Message ----- From: "david turgeon" <david@evolutiontech.com> To: "Guai Lo" <jotai@mindspring.com> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 7:52 PM Subject: Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
quoted 3 lines another problem with your argument is that it doesn't apply to any> another problem with your argument is that it doesn't apply to any > statistically relevant real-world situation. how often do you think > someone just goes & release what they think is crap?
Aphex Twin, "Windowlicker", Track 2. superfuzz@home.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-07 08:18Cesium5Hz@aol.comIn a message dated 7/12/99 4:12:44 yesno@ez0.ezlink.com writes: > music is similar to lang
From:
To:
,
Date:
Tue, 7 Dec 1999 03:18:21 EST
Subject:
Re: (idm) oooh look, a myth
permalink · <0.63685035.257e1ccd@aol.com>
In a message dated 7/12/99 4:12:44 yesno@ez0.ezlink.com writes:
quoted 3 lines music is similar to language. it is as impossible to have a single piece> music is similar to language. it is as impossible to have a single piece > of music loved by all as it is to have a book that is comprehensible in > all human languages, and which says something that all people find
pleasant.
quoted 5 lines this does not mean that objective criteria on which to judge music are> > this does not mean that objective criteria on which to judge music are > impossible: just that which criterion to employ in a specific > circumstance is subjective. >
Music is Art. Art is judged by a perception. Perception is relative to the beholder. I let you draw your own conclusions... A Z --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org