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Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?

11 messages · 9 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1999-11-29 18:52Chris Fahey (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
└─ 1999-11-29 19:17Lance @ Inaudible Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
1999-11-29 19:10Andrew Duke Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
1999-11-29 20:04Chris Fahey RE: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
└─ 1999-11-29 20:22laerm RE: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
└─ 1999-11-29 20:42eric hill RE: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
1999-11-29 21:20Dave Walker Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
└─ 1999-12-01 05:11Lazlo Nibble Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
1999-11-30 01:32david turgeon Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
└─ 1999-11-30 01:47wells Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
1999-11-30 02:16david turgeon Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
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1999-11-29 18:52Chris FaheyIt's so nice to see so many places to listen to curated/DJ-ed webcasts of mixes of IDM, bu
From:
Chris Fahey
To:
IDM (E-mail)
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:52:42 -0500
Subject:
(idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <A6AC16578099D311BC1600508B5578E3367A8C@STEAMER>
It's so nice to see so many places to listen to curated/DJ-ed webcasts of mixes of IDM, but one thing always bugs me and prevents me from ever really participating as a listener: the compression is always so crappy! Are there any IDMish internet radio "stations" webcasting in anything close to a high-quality compression format? I find it very hard to listen to most streaming audio when the best quality I can find is 32 kbps Real Audio or MP3. It's especially frustrating with IDMish stuff (as opposed to rawk or spoken word junk), much of which is constructed using extreme bass and treble sounds, pure waveform sounds, subtle envelope effects, and other sound techniques which get mangled or eliminated in most high-compression schemes. To listen to, say, Panasonic in anything less than highest quality compression is like listening to hip hop on a minicasette player. I realize that there are bandwidth issues and storage space issues, and forgive me if I'm critiquing what is really only the shortcomings of some hosting providers, but things are changing every day: Those of you who run and promote such webcasts, like Andrew Duke or Lance, why not lead the way with full-quality webcasting today? You can offer it in addition to your regular low-bandwith offerings so that low-bandwith listeners can still pitch in. I'd rather have one high-quality mix available per month than several nigh-unintelligible low quality ones. Any thoughts on this? ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - c h r i s t ø p h e r f ª h e y . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ chrisf@raremedium.com 2 1 2 - 6 3 4 - 6 9 5 0 x 2 5 8 http://www.raremedium.com - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-29 19:17Lance @ InaudibleAt 01:52 PM 11/29/1999 , you wrote: >I find it very hard to listen to most streaming audio
From:
Lance @ Inaudible
To:
Chris Fahey
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:17:11 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
Reply to:
(idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <4.2.2.19991129141308.00a79860@nacs.net>
At 01:52 PM 11/29/1999 , you wrote:
quoted 14 lines I find it very hard to listen to most streaming audio when the best quality>I find it very hard to listen to most streaming audio when the best quality >I can find is 32 kbps Real Audio or MP3. It's especially frustrating with >IDMish stuff (as opposed to rawk or spoken word junk), much of which is >constructed using extreme bass and treble sounds, pure waveform sounds, >subtle envelope effects, and other sound techniques which get mangled or >eliminated in most high-compression schemes. To listen to, say, Panasonic in >anything less than highest quality compression is like listening to hip hop >on a minicasette player. > >I realize that there are bandwidth issues and storage space issues, and >forgive me if I'm critiquing what is really only the shortcomings of some >hosting providers, but things are changing every day: Those of you who run >and promote such webcasts, like Andrew Duke or Lance, why not lead the way >with full-quality webcasting today?
Inaudible is broadcast & archieved in mp3 format which is probably as good as you can get for streaming audio. Broadcast quality better than that and the artists/labels that we play may have issues with us. : ) -->-Lance--- lance@inaudible.com p.o. box 450715 westlake, ohio 44145 united states --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-29 19:10Andrew DukeHi, Chris. I agree totally with what you are saying, and with Cognition and Andrew Duke's
From:
Andrew Duke
To:
Chris Fahey
Cc:
IDM (E-mail)
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:10:41 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <3842CFB1.D3B9E964@ns.sympatico.ca>
Hi, Chris. I agree totally with what you are saying, and with Cognition and Andrew Duke's In The Mix am trying to provide high quality sound quality wherever possible. Recently (well, a few months ago), Andrew Duke's In The Mix went from being offered simply at one bandwidth (28kps) to that *and* high so that those with higher connections, ISDN, T1s etc could experience the show more as I intend it (ie how it sounds here in the studio before it gets compressed to RealAudio and Windows Media Player files) and, i'm happy to say, it seems to have gone over very well. I'm also making sure I get material with good quality sound to begin with (ie. live PAs and guest dj sets on CDR or DAT, no cassettes, ditto for music), but am particularly frustrated with the artist feature portion of the show (where I interview an artist and play music from the artist interviewed): i've tried various EQing, ways of recording the phone interview, etc, etc, and, while the sound quality is sometimes OK, sometimes it is horrible. it's frustrating that you can talk to someone in the UK, for example, and you might get a great phone connection, but then you interview someone from toronto or detroit and the connection is horrible. vice versa as well. that's my biggest peeve witht the sound quality of the syndicated show at this point: trying to get the interviews to sound better. personally, it's in my personality to keep trying to do better, so hopefully the sound quality of the interviews and the show itself will improve. re: sonic thresholds: there's been a few world premieres that i've wanted to do that i didn't because of this very reason: either too low lows (fine for listening on the radio, but inaudible by the time they get compressed for the 'net), too high highs, or just too much dynamics so that you'd sacrifice one or the other to get at least some sound in. with the show you can mix two things together to get a little bit more "busy-ness" in there, when you're playing two minimal ambient tracks, for example, but that doesn't happen with the world premieres. thanks for bringing up this topic. andrew duke :) Chris Fahey wrote:
quoted 37 lines It's so nice to see so many places to listen to curated/DJ-ed webcasts of> It's so nice to see so many places to listen to curated/DJ-ed webcasts of > mixes of IDM, but one thing always bugs me and prevents me from ever really > participating as a listener: the compression is always so crappy! Are there > any IDMish internet radio "stations" webcasting in anything close to a > high-quality compression format? > > I find it very hard to listen to most streaming audio when the best quality > I can find is 32 kbps Real Audio or MP3. It's especially frustrating with > IDMish stuff (as opposed to rawk or spoken word junk), much of which is > constructed using extreme bass and treble sounds, pure waveform sounds, > subtle envelope effects, and other sound techniques which get mangled or > eliminated in most high-compression schemes. To listen to, say, Panasonic in > anything less than highest quality compression is like listening to hip hop > on a minicasette player. > > I realize that there are bandwidth issues and storage space issues, and > forgive me if I'm critiquing what is really only the shortcomings of some > hosting providers, but things are changing every day: Those of you who run > and promote such webcasts, like Andrew Duke or Lance, why not lead the way > with full-quality webcasting today? You can offer it in addition to your > regular low-bandwith offerings so that low-bandwith listeners can still > pitch in. I'd rather have one high-quality mix available per month than > several nigh-unintelligible low quality ones. Any thoughts on this? > > ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - > > c h r i s t ø p h e r f ª h e y > > . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ > chrisf@raremedium.com > 2 1 2 - 6 3 4 - 6 9 5 0 x 2 5 8 > http://www.raremedium.com > - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
-- ***be sure to check out the 1999 Fundraising Auction for CKDU on the Cognition site*** Cognition/Andrew Duke's In The Mix mailto:cognition@techno.ca http://techno.ca/cognition 1096 Queen St #123 Halifax NS Canada B3H 2R9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-29 20:04Chris FaheyFirst let me say that it's so cool that both of our illustrious IDM streaming audio DJs re
From:
Chris Fahey
To:
Cc:
'Lance @ Inaudible' , 'Andrew Duke Cognition/In The Mix'
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:04:03 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <A6AC16578099D311BC1600508B5578E3367A94@STEAMER>
First let me say that it's so cool that both of our illustrious IDM streaming audio DJs responded so quickly to this thread. Lance wrote:
quoted 7 lines Inaudible is broadcast & archieved in mp3 format> Inaudible is broadcast & archieved in mp3 format > which is probably as good as you can get for > streaming audio. > > Broadcast quality better than that and the > artists/labels that we play may have issues with > us. : )
I'm not surprised at an artist/label objecting to your providing their content as full-quality MP3 files, but there are ways around that. First, streaming-only media formats such as Real Audio can make it impossible for the consumer to download the file and redistribute it. Secondly, I would imagine that since you are making an extended DJ mix (with overlapping/beatmatched tracks) that even if someone did download the whole thing they could still not cleanly extract a whole song from the file anyway, thus frustrating piracy. That said, Inaudible's mixes are great and it's really cool that you archive them, but the MP3 compression rate you use for the broadcasts is very extreme. Again, I'd rather see a small number of high-quality mixes than a larger number of low-quality mixes. Andrew Duke Cognition/In The Mix wrote:
quoted 10 lines Hi, Chris. I agree totally with what you are saying,> Hi, Chris. I agree totally with what you are saying, > and with Cognition and Andrew Duke's In The Mix > am trying to provide high quality sound quality wherever > possible. Recently (well, a few months ago), Andrew Duke's > In The Mix went from being offered simply at one bandwidth > (28kps) to that *and* high so that those with higher connections, > ISDN, T1s etc could experience the show more as I intend > it (ie how it sounds here in the studio before it gets compressed > to RealAudio and Windows Media Player files) and, i'm happy > to say, it seems to have gone over very well.
This is cool! As a T1 user during the daytime at work, as I'm sure many other listmembers are, the lowest common denominator is sometimes a little lower than I would like (in Quake I am what is known as a Low Ping Bastard). For us spoiled brats, it's nice to have a higher end option. Now about jacking it up above 80kbps... -Cf ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - c h r i s t ø p h e r f ª h e y . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ chrisf@raremedium.com 2 1 2 - 6 3 4 - 6 9 5 0 x 2 5 8 http://www.raremedium.com - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-29 20:22laermOn Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Chris Fahey wrote: > First, streaming-only media formats such as Real
From:
laerm
To:
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 15:22:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
RE: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
Reply to:
RE: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <Pine.SOL.4.04.9911291519380.311-100000@unix01>
On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Chris Fahey wrote:
quoted 2 lines First, streaming-only media formats such as Real Audio can make it> First, streaming-only media formats such as Real Audio can make it > impossible for the consumer to download the file and redistribute it.
well, not really.
quoted 4 lines This is cool! As a T1 user during the daytime at work, as I'm sure> This is cool! As a T1 user during the daytime at work, as I'm sure > many other listmembers are, the lowest common denominator is sometimes > a little lower than I would like (in Quake I am what is known as a Low > Ping Bastard).
umm, i don't think T1's are THAT common. this list doesn't need any more "elitist asshole" points for simon reynolds to pick on us for. ;) * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# icq: 5562209 never been closer to heaven/never been further away --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-29 20:42eric hill>> This is cool! As a T1 user during the daytime at work, as I'm sure >> many other listme
From:
eric hill
To:
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:42:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
RE: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
Reply to:
RE: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911291234270.1744-100000@shell3.ba.best.com>
quoted 7 lines This is cool! As a T1 user during the daytime at work, as I'm sure>> This is cool! As a T1 user during the daytime at work, as I'm sure >> many other listmembers are, the lowest common denominator is sometimes >> a little lower than I would like (in Quake I am what is known as a Low >> Ping Bastard). > >umm, i don't think T1's are THAT common. this list doesn't need any more >"elitist asshole" points for simon reynolds to pick on us for. ;)
not only that, but T1's aren't really very accomodating for larger-bandwidth broadcasts: 96kbps streams would use the whole thing up once 16 people are connected, and that's not even accounting for 24 or 32 kbps (modem-style) streams running alongside. one way to tackle it would be to limit the number of high b/w listeners, though i'm not sure how this is done in RA or ASF. without this limitation, i'm sure there are at least 16 cable or dsl subscribers around here who could max out quality sounding webcasts if given the option, so the economics don't really play out for typical low-ad shows. x-radio or betalounge might be more to your liking, if you can get with their content. eric --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-29 21:20Dave Walkerlaerm wrote: > On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Chris Fahey wrote: > > > This is cool! As a T1 user du
From:
Dave Walker
To:
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 16:20:06 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <3842EE05.7CC3ED8E@mich.com>
laerm wrote:
quoted 9 lines On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Chris Fahey wrote:> On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Chris Fahey wrote: > > > This is cool! As a T1 user during the daytime at work, as I'm sure > > many other listmembers are, the lowest common denominator is sometimes > > a little lower than I would like (in Quake I am what is known as a Low > > Ping Bastard). > > umm, i don't think T1's are THAT common. this list doesn't need any more > "elitist asshole" points for simon reynolds to pick on us for. ;)
I've often wondered what speeds most people are listening to webcasts at. I've added a quick poll at the bottom of the page for my streaming station. If you've got a few seconds, stop by and we can tally up some wholly unscientific results... http://bewitched.dyndns.org/radio/index.html thanks, d.w. ps: theres a bit of IDM played on this stream, though it's pretty much freeform --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-12-01 05:11Lazlo NibbleOn Mon, Nov 29, 1999 at 04:20:06PM -0500, Dave Walker wrote: > I've often wondered what sp
From:
Lazlo Nibble
To:
Date:
Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:11:50 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
Reply to:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <19991130221150.A24047@swcp.com>
On Mon, Nov 29, 1999 at 04:20:06PM -0500, Dave Walker wrote:
quoted 4 lines I've often wondered what speeds most people are listening> I've often wondered what speeds most people are listening > to webcasts at. I've added a quick poll at the bottom of the > page for my streaming station. If you've got a few seconds, > stop by and we can tally up some wholly unscientific results...
I'm not too surprised at the broadband-heavy results so far. Before I had a DSL connection, streaming audio was "cute" but mostly useless since it squidged out anytime I tried to do anything else at the same time (except for the LAPD feed, which is about as low-bandwidth as it gets :-). Now it's possible to still get real work done online with a live audio feed going... -- Lazlo Nibble - lazlo@studio-nibble.com - http://www.studio-nibble.com -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-30 01:32david turgeon> streaming-only media formats such as Real Audio can make it impossible for > the consume
From:
david turgeon
To:
Chris Fahey
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:32:25 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <38432929.1B76AEFC@evolutiontech.com>
quoted 2 lines streaming-only media formats such as Real Audio can make it impossible for> streaming-only media formats such as Real Audio can make it impossible for > the consumer to download the file and redistribute it.
& for the same price, they'll even database your listening habits for you & sell them to sony. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-30 01:47wellsAt 08:32 PM 11/29/99 -0500, david turgeon wrote: > >& for the same price, they'll even dat
From:
wells
To:
david turgeon , Chris Fahey
Cc:
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:47:05 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
Reply to:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <4.1.0.67.19991129204636.009eb3c0@titan.vcu.edu>
At 08:32 PM 11/29/99 -0500, david turgeon wrote:
quoted 6 lines & for the same price, they'll even database your listening habits for> >& for the same price, they'll even database your listening habits for >you & sell them to sony. > >~ david >
i've always found people's reactions to that interesting: who really cares? i don't see the big deal. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety 90 minutes. This much is fact. Everything else is just theory." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
1999-11-30 02:16david turgeon> >& for the same price, they'll even database your listening habits for > >you & sell the
From:
david turgeon
To:
wells
Cc:
Chris Fahey ,
Date:
Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:16:04 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) High Quality IDM Webcasts?
permalink · <38433364.4D9C38E3@evolutiontech.com>
quoted 4 lines & for the same price, they'll even database your listening habits for> >& for the same price, they'll even database your listening habits for > >you & sell them to sony. > i've always found people's reactions to that interesting: who really cares? > i don't see the big deal.
like other things, it's not so much what it is but what it opens the door to. knowing your customer to serve them better is one thing, but it's another when just one entity knows that much about so many people. it's more parasitic than anything at this point, & is likely to breed nothing but stagnation in the end. of course, please be my guest & avoid caring about the topic altogether: there's a bright future ahead, i hear. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org