IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines From:

>From: >Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999, 6:43 AM >

quoted 11 lines Look. Stop this. We didn't fight those Punk Wars for people to start

>Look. Stop this. We didn't fight those Punk Wars for people to start >talking like this again. > >--- Dave Segal <segal@altpress.com> & others wrote: >> >> also maybe it's just me but i love Yes. (i may >> be the only one) and >> >> they would fit in there somewhere. >> > >> Yes did create some pretty impressive music >> scattered >> throughout their many albums.

Hey, you who refuses to name him/herself: Punk is one of the most conservative _musical_ genres ever. How many punk albums do you still listen to? If it's more than 5, then you're a sad individual. Prog rock, despite being nearly universally reviled (usually by people who've barely heard the music), is a helluva lot more sonically interesting than punk ever was (give me Gong's _You_ over _Never Mind The Bollocks_ any day). Dave Segal Managing Editor/Alternative Press Reviews/BPM/Reissue Redux/Origins Of Cool Secret Ions on WCSB Thursdays 9-11PM EST www.wcsb.org

On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Dave Segal wrote:

quoted 3 lines Punk is one of the most conservative _musical_ genres ever. How many

> Punk is one of the most conservative _musical_ genres ever. How many > punk albums do you still listen to? If it's more than 5, then you're a > sad individual.

The Clash put out a record in 1977 called "The Clash" which shows a pretty wide array of influences, (albeit mainly reggae and dub, not weird time signatures and horrific 20 minute guitar solos) perhaps should give that album a try, I've heard rumors that there's going to be a remastered editions released soon. Anyway, this band, "The Clash" went on to put out a lot of other really great records and continued to bring other genres underneath the "punk" umbrella, like Johnny Rotten did with PIL, for instance. It moved away from three chords pretty quickly, you know. I'm not even going to talk about the rest of it (DIY, etc etc) because if you don't know, it doesn't matter. Am I the only sad individual on this list? Give me "London Calling" over "Tago Mago" any day. .Bil. np: bad brains: rock for light ["conservative" hardcore from DC]

1st. To my eternal shame, I actually saw Yes just after they had released 'Tales from Topographic Oceans', so I have first hand experience of the horror of prog rock. If you weren't there you can never know how bad it was. Endless really crap solos, suddenly changing time signatures for no other reason than to show 'oh aren't we supremely talented musicians', bloody concept albums (e.g. Camel - Flight of the Snow Goose). I can't really believe you are trying to defend Barclay James Harvest who should have been executed years ago for crimes against music. 2nd. 5 good punk albums? ummm...The Pop Group, Public Image - Metal Box, Joy Division, Associates, Raincoats, Slits, Television, Young Marble Giants, Cabaret Voltaire, the Fall, Wire ....A sight more interesting than Yes, Genesis and all that other hippie prog crap. 3rd. Punk destroyed a lot of sacred cows. It enabled non-musicians to create music, it allowed DIY electronic musicians to release singles (Robert Rental, the Normal etc.), it re-assessed the importance of Black Music such as Soul Funk and Reggae which was ignored by the racist prog rock community and it laid the foundations for the music this list discusses. Mat. --- Dave Segal <segal@altpress.com> wrote:

quoted 36 lines From:

> > >From: > >Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999, 6:43 AM > > > > >Look. Stop this. We didn't fight those Punk Wars > for people to start > >talking like this again. > > > >--- Dave Segal <segal@altpress.com> & others wrote: > >> >> also maybe it's just me but i love Yes. (i > may > >> be the only one) and > >> >> they would fit in there somewhere. > >> > > >> Yes did create some pretty impressive music > >> scattered > >> throughout their many albums. > > Hey, you who refuses to name him/herself: > Punk is one of the most conservative _musical_ > genres ever. How many punk albums do you still > listen to? If it's more than 5, then you're > a sad individual. Prog rock, despite being nearly > universally reviled (usually by > people who've barely heard the music), is > a helluva lot more sonically interesting than > punk ever was (give me Gong's _You_ over _Never > Mind The Bollocks_ any day). > > Dave Segal > Managing Editor/Alternative Press > Reviews/BPM/Reissue Redux/Origins Of Cool > Secret Ions on WCSB Thursdays 9-11PM EST > www.wcsb.org >

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On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, [iso-8859-1] drift wood wrote:

quoted 4 lines 2nd. 5 good punk albums? ummm...The Pop Group, Public Image - Metal

> 2nd. 5 good punk albums? ummm...The Pop Group, Public Image - Metal > Box, Joy Division, Associates, Raincoats, Slits, Television, Young > Marble Giants, Cabaret Voltaire, the Fall, Wire ....A sight more > interesting than Yes, Genesis and all that other hippie prog crap.

ahh. okay. i see the disagreement. you didn't mean punk bands, but punk-era bands. phrased that way - yeah, definitely more than five. hey - does king crimson count as prog rock? i hope not. :P * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# it's only in uncertainty/that we're naked and alive icq:5562209

quoted 10 lines Hey, you who refuses to name him/herself:

> Hey, you who refuses to name him/herself: > Punk is one of the most conservative _musical_ > genres ever. How many punk albums do you still > listen to? If it's more than 5, then you're > a sad individual. Prog rock, despite being nearly > universally reviled (usually by > people who've barely heard the music), is > a helluva lot more sonically interesting than > punk ever was (give me Gong's _You_ over _Never > Mind The Bollocks_ any day).

Punk gave us three things: 1) You don't need to sign to a big label and go the corporate route. 2) Energy and feeling are more inportant than technical difficulty 3) Anyone can make music These are the basic ideas that have informed most good forms of music ever since (including idm). Warp records were born out of a classic DIY punk approach. Prog said pretty much the opposite. Anyhow, psychedelia's blatantly prog without the crap bits, and is a lot more innaresting. Any arguments? jorkens

quoted 3 lines These are the basic ideas that have informed most good forms of music ever

> These are the basic ideas that have informed most good forms of music ever > since (including idm). Warp records were born out of a classic DIY punk > approach.

Why is Dark Side of the Moon's sleeve on the cover of Artificial Intelligence and not, say, Rocket to Russia, then? C.

quoted 9 lines Punk is one of the most conservative _musical_ genres ever. How many

>> Punk is one of the most conservative _musical_ genres ever. How many >> punk albums do you still listen to? If it's more than 5, then you're a >> sad individual. > >The Clash put out a record in 1977 called "The Clash" which shows a pretty >wide array of influences, (albeit mainly reggae and dub, not weird time >signatures and horrific 20 minute guitar solos) perhaps should give that >album a try, I've heard rumors that there's going to be a remastered >editions released soon.

Heard it when it came out, sonny. Still have it in my collection. Punk's heyday lasted a very short time. It sounded very fresh for about 2 years. Rotten became Lydon and expanded his (and PiL fans') horizons. Listen to the bands who consider themselves punk now. It's sadder than hearing a concert bill full of Grateful Dead wannabes. BTW,if you hate prog, how would you know about these mythical 20-minute guitar solos? Seems like you would've exited long before your stopwatch hit the 20-minute mark.

quoted 6 lines Anyway, this band, "The Clash" went on to put out a lot of other really

>Anyway, this band, "The Clash" went on to put out a lot of other really >great records and continued to bring other genres underneath the "punk" >umbrella, like Johnny Rotten did with PIL, for instance. It moved away >from three chords pretty quickly, you know. I'm not even going to talk >about the rest of it (DIY, etc etc) because if you don't know, it doesn't >matter.

Y'all have been talking about the cultural aftermath of punk. Only a fool would say that its DIY impact was negative; however, _musically_, most punk hasn't aged well. That's my point, once and for all. Dave Segal Managing Editor/Alternative Press Reviews/BPM/Reissue Redux/Origins Of Cool Secret Ions on WCSB Thursdays 9-11PM EST www.wcsb.org