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(idm) Re:corporate vs. college radio

7 messages · 5 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) []pusher & recommendations · (idm) re:corporate vs. college radio
1999-07-07 22:12Tomas Jirku Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
1999-07-07 22:41Glenn Bach Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
1999-07-08 00:14Tomas Jirku Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
└─ 1999-07-08 00:30eric hill Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
1999-07-08 02:45Glenn Bach Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
└─ 1999-07-08 06:18Moonlight Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
1999-07-08 13:35Andrew Duke Cognition/In The Mix (idm) Re:corporate vs. college radio
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1999-07-07 22:12Tomas Jirku>I'll take it a step further and hazard to say that a DJ takes tracks and weaves >each dis
From:
Tomas Jirku
To:
Date:
Wed, 07 Jul 1999 18:12:01 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
permalink · <3783D0B1.4CA3@yirku.com>
quoted 3 lines I'll take it a step further and hazard to say that a DJ takes tracks and weaves>I'll take it a step further and hazard to say that a DJ takes tracks and weaves >each discrete track, as an easily definable unit, into a song, an hour-long >song if you will.
DJs don't do shit.
1999-07-07 22:41Glenn Bach> DJs don't do shit. If there is no wink accompanying that statement, then I have to speak
From:
Glenn Bach
To:
, IDM List
Date:
Wed, 07 Jul 1999 15:41:54 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
permalink · <3783D7B2.BE466E81@csulb.edu>
quoted 1 line DJs don't do shit.> DJs don't do shit.
If there is no wink accompanying that statement, then I have to speak up. Have you seen a good ambient (or IDM) DJ lately? Two or three turntables, a couple of CD players, a tape deck perhaps, building and layering, sampling and staging, EQing and effecting. Taking songs, tracks, snippets, sounds and transforming them to such a point that even other DJs or afficianados can no longer recognize the original sources. Building crescendo, easing into decrescendo, dropping beats, playing shit backwards, shifting tempos and time signatures and tones. Seeing the larger picture of a soundscape lasting several hours, segues to the next DJ, 2x4 DJ combos, turntable improv with guitarists and other musicians, etc. DJs do lots. At least the ones with whom I associate. G.
1999-07-08 00:14Tomas Jirkuwhy don't DJs make their own fricken music instead of taking the credit for someone else's
From:
Tomas Jirku
To:
Glenn Bach
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:14:36 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
permalink · <3783ED6C.20CD@yirku.com>
why don't DJs make their own fricken music instead of taking the credit for someone else's. "man, that dj sure can spin!" what? he can put a needle on a record and make it go in circles. most of the time the dude is pickin his nose or smokin a blunt. and if i have to hear anymore scratchmological waxploitation from those damn Invisible Scratch Pickles i'll shoot everyone in my school. (who says industrial music is the driving force behind this trend?) much respect to greg, andrew and others of your breed that discjockey to promote the genre and the artists rather than satisfying an ego. tomas np: Joan of Arc - Live in Chicago, 1999 Glenn Bach wrote:
quoted 12 lines DJs don't do shit.> > > DJs don't do shit. > > If there is no wink accompanying that statement, then I have to speak up. Have you > seen a good ambient (or IDM) DJ lately? Two or three turntables, a couple of CD > players, a tape deck perhaps, building and layering, sampling and staging, EQing and > effecting. Taking songs, tracks, snippets, sounds and transforming them to such a > point that even other DJs or afficianados can no longer recognize the original > sources. Building crescendo, easing into decrescendo, dropping beats, playing shit > backwards, shifting tempos and time signatures and tones. Seeing the larger picture > of a soundscape lasting several hours, segues to the next DJ, 2x4 DJ combos, > turntable improv with guitarists and other musicians, etc.
1999-07-08 00:30eric hill>why don't DJs make their own fricken music instead of taking the credit >for someone else
From:
eric hill
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Date:
Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:30:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
Reply to:
Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.10.9907071728290.9197-100000@shell3.ba.best.com>
quoted 2 lines why don't DJs make their own fricken music instead of taking the credit>why don't DJs make their own fricken music instead of taking the credit >for someone else's.
man, this is obvious lamer flame-bait. eric
1999-07-08 02:45Glenn BachTomas Jirku wrote: > why don't DJs make their own fricken music instead of taking the cred
From:
Glenn Bach
To:
, IDM List
Date:
Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:45:13 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
permalink · <378410B9.18EE2DE5@csulb.edu>
Tomas Jirku wrote:
quoted 9 lines why don't DJs make their own fricken music instead of taking the credit> why don't DJs make their own fricken music instead of taking the credit > for someone else's. "man, that dj sure can spin!" what? he can put a > needle on a record and make it go in circles. most of the time the dude > is pickin his nose or smokin a blunt. and if i have to hear anymore > scratchmological waxploitation from those damn Invisible Scratch Pickles > i'll shoot everyone in my school. (who says industrial music is the > driving force behind this trend?) > much respect to greg, andrew and others of your breed that discjockey to > promote the genre and the artists rather than satisfying an ego.
Narrowing it down to the community of DJs and musicians with which I am familiar (I haven't spun a rave or club since the early 90s), I think it has little to do with ego (the rock star thing doesn't really apply here) and everything to do with the music. I don't think anyone really thinks that the DJ is taking credit for the wax being spun. But it is about selection: what to choose for an hour-long set among the seemingly infinite variety of music out there, what the DJ wants to share to that particular audience on that particular occasion (the same with radio DJs in many ways). Nothing but respect to the musicians who bust their asses making the music, and nothing but respect to the music itself. Otherwise, we wouldn't bother spending hundreds or thousands a month on that music and those artists (I can think of much cheaper ways of getting my ego stroked). Often some of us take it to the next level by layering and stacking and creating new hybrids, cross-genres, idiosyncratic interpretations, but no one is claiming ownership of the parts. But these concerted efforts, most often in a non-party context, do approach the level of pure collage or soundscapes, so some DJs and their output can be discussed in terms beyond the basic mechanisms of record playing or beat matching. A percentage of the audience certainly appreciates it--those who seek it out, those who pass through and are affected, those whose preconceptions of DJs are challenged by someone spinning something other than dance music. A lot of times I feel more like a coordinator than a DJ, a coordinator of sounds. I'm only exploring other possibilities for myself and others who share my sensibilities, and I certainly have no interest in dissing others who don't. Sure, there are DJs who dick around and cop attitude, but I think the majority are serious and hard-working, focusing on the music they love, the seamless blend of matched beats, or on sampling and scratching . For many DJs I think technique is just that, a means to an end. ISP and other crews who practice every day (and have for years) have pushed technique to the edge, but ask them and they will say it's still about the music. New music is being created, performed, and enjoyed all around us, and with that impressive level of creative experimentation it only follows that the performance, delivery, and experience of all this new music will change as well. Witness the recent discussion on this list, for example, about the merging (or lack of) free jazz and electronic music, about the expanded palette of instrumentation available to the musician Why can't the DJ participate in that process as well? DJs have been around for a long time, and I am by no means in any position to say that DJs need to be defended in the first place. But I'm witnessing firsthand and participating in the creation of some damn cool stuff, and I'm grateful to be a part of such a dynamic and lively process. G.
1999-07-08 06:18Moonlight>it is about selection: what to choose for an hour-long set among the seemingly >infinite
From:
Moonlight
To:
Date:
Wed, 07 Jul 1999 23:18:41 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
Reply to:
Re: (idm) []pusher & recommendations
permalink · <3.0.5.32.19990707231841.00880100@augsburg.edu>
quoted 1 line it is about selection: what to choose for an hour-long set among the>it is about selection: what to choose for an hour-long set among the
seemingly
quoted 2 lines infinite variety of music out there, what the DJ wants to share to that>infinite variety of music out there, what the DJ wants to share to that >particular audience on that particular occasion (the same with radio DJs
in many
quoted 1 line ways).>ways).
Except radio playlists are determined by computer. I read an article (ooh, great ersource citation) that every corporate station in the US does this, and breaks from this are the rare exception. Special shows and all. I really haven't looked at the possibilities of college radio, though. Whenever i've checked them out, it's always the flavor of the month alt-rock. _________________________________ Adam Roesch / roesch@augsburg.edu University of Idaho / Moscow / ID / USA Visit my Fila Brazillia/Pork Recordings fan site: http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/pork/ "Because success needs killing" TRICKY
1999-07-08 13:35Andrew Duke Cognition/In The Mixcorporate/commercial radio vs. college/community radio in simplest and general terms: coll
From:
Andrew Duke Cognition/In The Mix
To:
Moonlight
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:35:05 -0300
Subject:
(idm) Re:corporate vs. college radio
permalink · <3784A909.D18F8909@globalserve.net>
corporate/commercial radio vs. college/community radio in simplest and general terms: college radio programmers play what they want on their shows. corporate radio, however, hires "personalities" who do not have anything to do with the music played during their shows, unless perhaps if it's a specialty show. in corporate radio, if it's not a computer playing preprogrammed selections, than it's the "personality" playing tracks that have been preselected: s/he is given a list and must play the songs in the exact order. ever listen to a commercial station and hear the "personality" announce the time but it's way off (way ahead or way behind the actual time)? ever hear the "personality" backannouncing tracks that haven't actually been played yet? or preannouncing tracks that have already been played? it happens often. that's because with the automation, many "personalities" aren't actually in the station live during their shows: they've voiced all their voiceovers in one go before the show and then the computer plugs each voiceover in at the appropriate time. of course if the "personality" says "it's 12noon and you're checking out HITS 99 FM" and the computer accidentally plays this voiceover at 11:30 AM or 12: 30 AM, or they voice "that was elton john, bryan adams, and celine dion to finish another 40 minute marathon" but this gets played *before* the songs have been played, which happens quite often if you pay attention, then it quickly becomes obvious that the automation is removing the humans even more from the corporate radio process. i know of one "personality" who recently lost most of her hours due to this automation and now has to voice all her voiceovers at home before the show and then turns them in. plus: more and more corporate radio stations are now owned by a smaller and smaller group of owners. here in halifax, for example, 5 radio stations are owned by the *same* owners! and here's the ironic part: these 5 stations are all programmed by *one person*. he's sent the "yes, play it" and "no, don't play it" lists from "head office" and then decides what gets played on their soft rock station, what gets played on their classic rock station, what gets played on their country station, what gets played on their oldies station, and what gets covered on their talk radio station. it's quite scary if you think about it: one person here in halifax is programming 5 of halifax's 6 corporate/commercial stations! one person here in halifax is deciding what 95% of the corporate radio listenerships hears! he's the reason you're hearing ricky martin at such and such a time on the soft rock station and the same person who decides when you'll hear garth brooks on the country station. my alarm is set for 7AM every morning, and it's set to the soft rock station because the college station's receiption is not always clear and i have to have a strong radio signal coming in on the alarm to wake me up. every morning, without fail, the soft rock station plays the backstreet boys' i want it that way and ricky martin and the exact same songs. every morning in the window that that alarm is playing the station before i drag my ass out of bed. that scares me. re: specialty shows: a station's specialty program is usually generated through the same sort of process. here in halifax the local soft rock station has an 80s show saturday mornings and saturdays nights; i assume they figure their target audience would like to live in the past? they also syndicate mc mario's mixdown (a weekly top ten of commercial dance) and play that saturday nights so their audience can, i assume they believe, feel they are "hip" and "down with the current music". unlike other cities, halifax doesn't have any live mix shows on friday and saturday nights to appeal to an audience that is certainly there. it's probably too cutting edge for halifax's programmer: commercial radio used to play chris sheppard's pirate radio/groove station, which, though it's still mostly commercial dance, at least worked in some electronica and was a bit more "ear to the ground". i assume sheppard's show was yanked and replaced with mario's because mario is only playing the will smiths and the aquas, whereas sheppard played the will smiths and the aquas, but at least he also worked in some daft punk, chemical brothers, etc (i'm certainly not sticking up for chris sheppard in any way and/or daft punk/chemical brothers, but you've got to start somewhere) it doesn't surprise me that syndicated shows such as the one i've been doing since 1987 get dismissed by corporate radio; if daft punk is too much for halifax's soft rock station, of course autechre, dan curtin, and innerzone orchestra would be (in their opinion), despite the audience that *is* interested in hearing the program. pardon my bitterness, i had to stick up for what i believe in, and college radio is where it's at in the corporate vs. college radio debate. so, regardless of what you think about college radio, please remember that college radio programmers at least are playing exactly what they want. listen to each of your commercial stations attentively for a day each and you'll see what i mean. then listen to your college radio stations in the same way. then listen to your public radio stations in the same way. it's refreshing that internet radio is available, yes,but don't give up on college radio. thanks. andrew duke :) Moonlight wrote:
quoted 24 lines it is about selection: what to choose for an hour-long set among the> >it is about selection: what to choose for an hour-long set among the > seemingly > >infinite variety of music out there, what the DJ wants to share to that > >particular audience on that particular occasion (the same with radio DJs > in many > >ways). > > Except radio playlists are determined by computer. > I read an article (ooh, great ersource citation) that every corporate > station in the US does this, and breaks from this are the rare exception. > Special shows and all. > > I really haven't looked at the possibilities of college radio, though. > Whenever i've checked them out, it's always the flavor of the month > alt-rock. > > _________________________________ > Adam Roesch / roesch@augsburg.edu > University of Idaho / Moscow / ID / USA > > Visit my Fila Brazillia/Pork Recordings fan site: > http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/pork/ > > "Because success needs killing" TRICKY