IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines There are some Relief records

>> There are some Relief records >> that attempt to lock at the run-off and >> most of them just fail pretty badly.

quoted 2 lines ***"fail pretty badly" is putting it rather

> ***"fail pretty badly" is putting it rather > politely here, Simon ;)Andrew

probably the best example of a well-executed run-off lock groove at the end of an album that i've heard is on death in june's "nada" the last number flows into a really pretty lock of bells. mastered by dennis at porkys i believe (along with many great records from the eighties i might add) i think it's probably easier easier to pull off a run-off lock with non-percussive music. getting the needle to fall into the groove _right_ in with the the beat seems like a pretty hard to thing to do. there is also a very nice lock on jeff mills "humana" although if i remember correctly there is quite a nice percussive lock groove on jeff mills "humana" speaking of locked grooves... when thomas brinkmann was in my city he showed some of the guys at a local store how to use a razor to cut up the last groove on a record into a lock groove. it's actually pretty easy. uh... tops for 98: roy davis vs. terry callier krust "true stories" common factor theo parrish "ebonics" aril brikha "art of vengeance" dj krush & toshinori kondo mezzanine BoC urban tribe metalheadz box set rhythm & sound "showcase" joe caussell 4 hero "two pages" roni size live moodymann dj'ing the return of juan atkins RJ

On 4 Jan 99, Joanisse, Robert wrote:

quoted 2 lines how to use a razor to cut up

> how to use a razor to cut up > the last groove on a record into a lock groove.

Never having seen a lock groove, could somebody please explain how these work? Does the needed somehow return back to the beginning and repeat play until you physically move it off? I *

Hi, On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Joanisse, Robert wrote:

quoted 5 lines probably the best example of a well-executed run-off lock groove at the

> probably the best example of a well-executed run-off lock groove at the > end of an album that i've heard is on death in june's "nada" the last > number flows into a really pretty lock of bells. mastered by dennis at > porkys i believe (along with many great records from the eighties i > might add)

My favourite lock groove is on 'The Flawed Hip Hop EP' from The Herbaliser on NinjaTune (ZEN1246). The Dj Vadim remix of '40 Winks' ends in a rather nice (non-percussive) lock groove. Bye Sebastian -- Sebastian Herrfurth (seher@cs.tu-berlin.de) pages for Bernd Friedmann / Riz Maslen / Daniel Meier / DJ Krush / ... at http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~seher/music.html

Joanisse, Robert wrote:

quoted 5 lines <snip>speaking of locked grooves... when thomas brinkmann was in my city

> <snip>speaking of locked grooves... when thomas brinkmann was in my city > he > showed some of the guys at a local store how to use a razor to cut up > the last groove on a record into a lock groove. it's actually pretty > easy.

yes, Mr. Brinkmann definitely has his ways with the razor :)He goes into this indepth in the interview with him up on http://www.globalserve.net/~cognition It was fascinating (on my part, at least ;) ) speaking with him about his scalpel-wielding. Funny, thing: I was playing a Brinkmann track on vinyl on my radio show and the guy after me, when I explained about Brinkmann using razors and the like to literally *carve* his sounds, got all worried that the needle that had just played a Brinkmann record was going to be all screwed up and he wouldn't be able to use that turntable (that had just played a Brinkmann record) during his show! Andrew

I think it is really cool of Brinkmann to go around showing people how to do this rhythmic popping of the runout groove, rather than keeping his ideas secretive. Same should be happening for cd-skipping, imo. For instance, it wuld be useful to know the bpm of the average cd-data-word-skip. If you programmed a track in that bpm, you could make the cd skip and get some tracky stuff....as well as know what speed to mix vinyl in at...Maybe I'll try this tonight... solenoid On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Andrew Duke Cognition Audioworks wrote:

quoted 21 lines Joanisse, Robert wrote:

> Joanisse, Robert wrote: > > > <snip>speaking of locked grooves... when thomas brinkmann was in my city > > he > > showed some of the guys at a local store how to use a razor to cut up > > the last groove on a record into a lock groove. it's actually pretty > > easy. > > yes, Mr. Brinkmann definitely has his ways with the razor :)He goes into > this indepth in the interview with him up on > http://www.globalserve.net/~cognition It was fascinating > (on my part, at least ;) ) speaking with him about his scalpel-wielding. > Funny, thing: I was playing a Brinkmann track on vinyl on > my radio show and the guy after me, when I explained about > Brinkmann using razors and the like to literally *carve* his sounds, > got all worried that the needle that had just played a Brinkmann > record was going to be all screwed up and he wouldn't be able > to use that turntable (that had just played a Brinkmann record) > during his show! Andrew > >

On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, solenoid wrote:

quoted 4 lines it wuld be useful to know the bpm of the average

> it wuld be useful to know the bpm of the average > cd-data-word-skip. If you programmed a track in that bpm, you could make > the cd skip and get some tracky stuff....as well as know what speed to mix > vinyl in at...Maybe I'll try this tonight...

For every scenario I can think of, the frequency of the skip on a CD would be dependent on the location on the disc. Remember, they spin at constant velocity, not at a constant RPM. The RPM varies from 500 to 300 if I'm remembering correctly. On the players I've tried, it has been a tricky business to cause a CD to skip "reliably". You have to catch a certain middle-ground where the player can cope well enough to keep spitting out audio, but not well enough to advance through the disc in approximately the normal way. --Mark __ Burning Rome : SENSELESS CD on Mindfield Records MindCD03 Cathartium 14 > Distributed by Dutch East India Trading, Com Four, and Carrot Top < < http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/BurningRome > < MP3 & RealAudio tracks >

On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Andrew Duke Cognition Audioworks wrote:

quoted 9 lines Joanisse, Robert wrote:

> Joanisse, Robert wrote: > > > <snip>speaking of locked grooves... when thomas brinkmann was in my city > > he > > showed some of the guys at a local store how to use a razor to cut up > > the last groove on a record into a lock groove. it's actually pretty > > easy. > > yes, Mr. Brinkmann definitely has his ways with the razor :)

stuart of the so-cal act "bassland" (now split up) does this quite effectively. amazing beats/rhythms come out of it. plus, you really dont have to beatmatch the records because the inner groove tends to be the same size. anyway, for those that care, bassland are doing one final set in so-cal on 1/30. look out for details. chris.

Mark Kolmar wrote:

quoted 9 lines it wuld be useful to know the bpm of the average

>> it wuld be useful to know the bpm of the average >> cd-data-word-skip. If you programmed a track in that bpm, you could make >> the cd skip and get some tracky stuff....as well as know what speed to mix >> vinyl in at...Maybe I'll try this tonight... > >For every scenario I can think of, the frequency of the skip on a CD would >be dependent on the location on the disc. Remember, they spin at constant >velocity, not at a constant RPM. The RPM varies from 500 to 300 if I'm >remembering correctly.

yes. the cd reads from the center out, so the RPM is faster at the beginning of the cd, and slower at the end.

quoted 5 lines On the players I've tried, it has been a tricky business to cause a CD to

> >On the players I've tried, it has been a tricky business to cause a CD to >skip "reliably". You have to catch a certain middle-ground where the >player can cope well enough to keep spitting out audio, but not well >enough to advance through the disc in approximately the normal way.

my friend kurt ralske (of cathars) wrote a computer program that makes any cd (in the cd-rom drive) skip, at any speed! miss miau-miau

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Miau-Miau International wrote: I wrote:

quoted 7 lines On the players I've tried, it has been a tricky business to cause a CD to

> >On the players I've tried, it has been a tricky business to cause a CD to > >skip "reliably". You have to catch a certain middle-ground where the > >player can cope well enough to keep spitting out audio, but not well > >enough to advance through the disc in approximately the normal way. > > my friend kurt ralske (of cathars) wrote a computer program that makes > any cd (in the cd-rom drive) skip, at any speed!

Also see my Chaotic Entertainment site at: http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/chaotic.html I should mention I did that before I'd ever heard of Oval, but I'll cop to the influence of Otomo Yoshihide. Is Ralske's program available for download, trade, stealing, or borrowing? Finally, is this the same Kurt Ralske from Ultra Vivid Scene? Email privately. I'd like to hear what he's been doing. --Mark __ Burning Rome : SENSELESS CD on Mindfield Records MindCD03 Cathartium 14 > Distributed by Dutch East India Trading, Com Four, and Carrot Top < < http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/BurningRome > < MP3 & RealAudio tracks >