IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines Is Chantal/Mira Calix she who did that track that goes "The things that

> Is Chantal/Mira Calix she who did that track that goes "The things that > people say you cannot do..the things that people say you cannot do.." over > and over? If so, she`s got my vote. "Brillo".

oh, im not saying i dont like the records,im just saying that i do not think that she has anything to do with the releases outside of talking. shane

On Thu, 06 Aug 1998 10:02:13 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 3 lines Is Chantal/Mira Calix she who did that track that goes "The things that

>> Is Chantal/Mira Calix she who did that track that goes "The things that >> people say you cannot do..the things that people say you cannot do.." over >> and over? If so, she`s got my vote. "Brillo".

quoted 2 lines oh, im not saying i dont like the records,im just saying that i do not think

>oh, im not saying i dont like the records,im just saying that i do not think >that she has anything to do with the releases outside of talking.

but it's just a guess, right? you don't actually know a thing about what went into the tracks, yeah? this opinion actually sounds quite sexist to me. as if you're automatically assuming women have no technical ability. which may or may /not/ be true in this particular case! there is more to making the music than sticking a few patch leads in and clicking up a row of bars in cubase. it's more than likely that gescom / disjecta gave her technical assistance to create the sounds, and program her arrangments in the tracks. not just being used as a sample source - that's ridiculous! <waves> Subconscious Geography http://www.sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk +/sale +/cdr

quoted 5 lines there is more to making the music than sticking a few patch leads in

>there is more to making the music than sticking a few patch leads in >and clicking up a row of bars in cubase. it's more than likely that >gescom / disjecta gave her technical assistance to create the sounds, >and program her arrangments in the tracks. not just being used as a >sample source - that's ridiculous!

Funny how this is exactly what Bjork gets trashed all over this list for doing, while Chantal gets full props. Double standard? C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "What I don't understand," said Richard, "is what these people have against dictionaries. Maybe they don't even know they can't spell."

At 01:05 PM 8/6/98 -0700, Chris.Hilker wrote:

quoted 11 lines there is more to making the music than sticking a few patch leads in

>>there is more to making the music than sticking a few patch leads in >>and clicking up a row of bars in cubase. it's more than likely that >>gescom / disjecta gave her technical assistance to create the sounds, >>and program her arrangments in the tracks. not just being used as a >>sample source - that's ridiculous! > >Funny how this is exactly what Bjork gets trashed all over this list >for doing, while Chantal gets full props. > >Double standard? >

i think it's because Chantal's music (or, rather, AE & disjecta's music with chantal's blathering) is 100x more interesting than most things Bjork has claimed to have done. but, yeah.. double standard nonetheless. at least chantal isn't some moron halfwit who prances around pretending to be a fairy or mystic or some other annoying from-the-darkwoode-forest-fantasy-type-thing. that's got to count for something - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu / http://mute.simplenet.com

quoted 3 lines at least chantal isn't some moron halfwit who prances around pretending to

>at least chantal isn't some moron halfwit who prances around pretending to >be a fairy or mystic or some other annoying >from-the-darkwoode-forest-fantasy-type-thing.

oh, mother of god! you can't see how much bjork's done for techno/idm in the US as compared to "electronica?" how else is the avg. American consumer going to hear music from Massey, Plaid and Mark Bell? and she's more of a musician than you give her credit for.

On Thu, 06 Aug 1998 16:19:13 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 3 lines i think it's because Chantal's music (or, rather, AE & disjecta's music

>i think it's because Chantal's music (or, rather, AE & disjecta's music >with chantal's blathering) is 100x more interesting than most things Bjork >has claimed to have done.

Well, I guess you had to be in the UK when that whole Sugarcubes thing took off to really appreciate her (or at least not come out with ridiculous statements like the one above). I'm on no Bjork butt-licking mission here. I've bought loads of Bjork, loads of Mira Calix and enjoy them both. If you want to restrict your tastes, then that's your lookout. But let's look at what we've got -- two Mira Calix 10-inches on Warp (plus a compilation appearance) produced by Booth/Brown and Clifford against a whole stack of Bjork productions handled by Graham Massey, 808 State, Mark Bell, Tim Simenon, Plaid, Black Dog, Funkstorung, Tricky, etc. /\/)ark http://www.sonance.demon.co.uk/

At 10:40 PM 8/6/98 GMT, Mark Stevens wrote:

quoted 4 lines I'm on no Bjork butt-licking mission here. I've bought loads of Bjork,

> >I'm on no Bjork butt-licking mission here. I've bought loads of Bjork, >loads of Mira Calix and enjoy them both. If you want to restrict your >tastes, then that's your lookout.

yes, i'm sorry i restrict my musical tastes to stuff that isn't shit (i.e. bjork). i am sorry for you and i extend my condolences about you spending money on Bjork - it's not _my_ fault. i've listened to every record she's made. i've listened to every sugarcubes record. all of them are garbage. even at moments when they approach a tolerable level, she comes in and ruins it all with her obnoxious voice. she _sucks_.

quoted 5 lines But let's look at what we've got -- two Mira Calix 10-inches on Warp

>But let's look at what we've got -- two Mira Calix 10-inches on Warp >(plus a compilation appearance) produced by Booth/Brown and Clifford >against a whole stack of Bjork productions handled by Graham Massey, >808 State, Mark Bell, Tim Simenon, Plaid, Black Dog, Funkstorung, >Tricky, etc.

Yeah, put those Mira Calix tracks up against a whole slew of Bjork records that are garbage. Garbage upon garbage still equals garbage. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu / http://mute.simplenet.com

On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, wells wrote: | Yeah, put those Mira Calix tracks up against a whole slew of Bjork records | that are garbage. | Garbage upon garbage still equals garbage. So you're saying put Bjork tracks upon Mira Calix tracks, and it still equals garbage? ;-) That'd be about right. Someone in a record store tried to give me the 'Pin Skeelings' single yesterday, because they can't sell it, even with the BoC remix, and I still didn't take it. Michael "You know what? I'll call him Jet Jaguar..." http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html

quoted 1 line she _sucks_.

> she _sucks_.

what the fuck is wells so bitter about? why doesn't he shut the hell up and get over it? i'm tired of his love songs to common sense. eric, no longer in the business. onnow: melvins:stag(atlantic)

quoted 14 lines oh, im not saying i dont like the records,im just saying that i do not think

> >oh, im not saying i dont like the records,im just saying that i do not think > >that she has anything to do with the releases outside of talking. > > but it's just a guess, right? you don't actually know a thing about > what went into the tracks, yeah? this opinion actually sounds quite > sexist to me. as if you're automatically assuming women have no > technical ability. which may or may /not/ be true in this particular > case! > > there is more to making the music than sticking a few patch leads in > and clicking up a row of bars in cubase. it's more than likely that > gescom / disjecta gave her technical assistance to create the sounds, > and program her arrangments in the tracks. not just being used as a > sample source - that's ridiculous!

what you might not have realized is that her first 10" sounds a whole damn lot like gescom, and the second like disjecta. funny, but those people "assissted" in the productions. why is it that if you are a woman, you suddenly are allowed leinentcies in everything you do? im not a sexist person. if some guy named "mark" released records and they sounded like gescom with some guy saying "do the things that people say you cannot " i would be saying the same thing. mira calix is like if i was a record label honcho, and decided that i wanted to go play around for a day with autechre. yeah, i could make some cool stuff if they "helped" me out. shane and for pete's sake, women have techical ability. you damn neo-hippies and your wanna-be politically correct mentalities.

quoted 2 lines Funny how this is exactly what Bjork gets trashed all over this list

> Funny how this is exactly what Bjork gets trashed all over this list > for doing, while Chantal gets full props.

yeah but it seems that people have this romantic delusion about how warp (and smaller labels on down) doesnt make any money, while what i think the problem 'we' have with bjork is how shes on mtv and has a worldwide deal (and has, god forbid, normal people listening to her records on the bus and plays arenas). its this whole commercial vs indie thing and it doesnt stick... im not saying ae are rolling in cash but the sony/nothing deals are probably paying for the gear/clothes/mountain bikes etc... as discussed on this list previously, 100%fuckinDEPENDENT indeed.

On Thu, 06 Aug 1998 16:13:09 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 1 line problem 'we' have with bjork is how shes on mtv and has a worldwide deal...

>problem 'we' have with bjork is how shes on mtv and has a worldwide deal...

Oh, for fuck's sake. Doesn't music count for anything anymore? If it's one thing I find fucking hilarious is this "if they're on MTV, they're commercial and therefore crap" attitude that seems to persist amongst many North American contributors to this list. This was one of the reasons I fixed out a year or two ago. All I was getting was "Orbital are crap because they've appeared on MTV". Well, they always said MTV caters for the mindless drones out there, so you're hardly doing yourself any favours by allowing them to dictate your musical tastes, are you? Over here in the UK, MTV has degenerated into the fucking R&B channel. The only decent program in the entire MTV line-up is Alternative Nation -- a 2 hour show on Tuesday evenings. Fortunately all my favourite bands seem to appear on here -- everyone from our beloved IDMsters like Aphex Twin and Autechre to gritty little lo-fi garage bands. Great stuff. Where was I going with this? Ah yes -- if you have a problem with Bjork being on MTV, then obviously this corporate entity has somehow gone medieval with your musical tastes. Do you honestly mean to tell me that if Bjork released limited edition vinyl copies of her music on Skam, it would suddenly be "better"? Because that's the way you're coming across. /\/)ark http://www.sonance.demon.co.uk/

At 04:31 PM 06 - 08 - 1998 -0500, you wrote:

quoted 12 lines at least chantal isn't some moron halfwit who prances around pretending to

> >>at least chantal isn't some moron halfwit who prances around pretending to >>be a fairy or mystic or some other annoying >>from-the-darkwoode-forest-fantasy-type-thing. > >oh, mother of god! > >you can't see how much bjork's done for techno/idm in the US as compared to >"electronica?" > >how else is the avg. American consumer going to hear music from Massey, >Plaid and Mark Bell?

i'd rather they didn't have to... jeremy[x]axon breeyn[e]mccarney broccoli[fat]cat ================= "Reality is that which, when you stop beleiving in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick In life, he suffered from a sense of unreality, as do many Englishmen. -- "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" by Jorge Luis Borges

quoted 2 lines you can't see how much bjork's done for techno/idm in the US as compared to

>>you can't see how much bjork's done for techno/idm in the US as compared to >>"electronica?"

...as Madonna brought house to the unclued masses. All hail the acts of heroic and selfless Promethean daring! 3

Is Chantal/Mira Calix she who did that track that goes "The things that people say you cannot do..the things that people say you cannot do.." over and over? If so, she`s got my vote. "Brillo". <---HEATsink--->

quoted 2 lines how else is the avg. American consumer going to hear music from Massey,

>>how else is the avg. American consumer going to hear music from Massey, >>Plaid and Mark Bell?

quoted 1 line i'd rather they didn't have to...

>i'd rather they didn't have to...

Yeah... Can't let the unwashed masses into our cosy little listening club can we? ;-)

Hi, At 22:40 1998-08-06 GMT, Mark Stevens wrote:

quoted 4 lines Oh, for fuck's sake. Doesn't music count for anything anymore? If it's

>Oh, for fuck's sake. Doesn't music count for anything anymore? If it's >one thing I find fucking hilarious is this "if they're on MTV, they're >commercial and therefore crap" attitude that seems to persist amongst >many North American contributors to this list.

As was pointed out on the Björk-list of which I happen to be a member (uh oh, will be getting less hits on my webpages after this embarrasing information have been made public), there's a significant different between being "commercial" and "commercially succesful" although I know it's hard for many people to understand. But then again, nuances are appearantly some heavy shit for many on this list. But I think me and this wells-figure (among others) went through this when Björk released her brilliant album, Homogenic, last year. Oh, and btw if you read the linear notes it clearly states that it was PRODUCED by Mark Bell and written by Björk. When Mark Bell writes tracks it sounds like that last track on Warp 100 which isn't really the same thing, at least not to my ears. But I'm not doing this again Franz. --- WHEN DOGMA ENTERS THE BRAIN, ALL INTELLECTUAL ACTIVITY CEASES. - Robert Anton Wilson.

On Fri, 07 Aug 1998 01:11:48 +0200, you wrote:

quoted 4 lines there's a significant different between being "commercial" and

>there's a significant different between being "commercial" and >"commercially succesful" although I know it's hard for many people to >understand. But then again, nuances are appearantly some heavy shit for >many on this list.

I think some people get a bit scared when too many people start listening to music they're interested in. For them, a <insert innovative but commercially successful group here> album was once a little private place they could retreat to when the going got tough, but now everyone seems to stopping off there for a picnic. It's a purely psychological thing -- there are people out there who are completely incapable of enjoying (or admitting to enjoying) music that's enjoyed by a wide audience. It offends their sense of individuality. I'm not saying this is the case for *everyone* who doesn't like Bjork. I can genuinely see that for many people, she's a squawking Icelandic pixie who's had one too many bangs on the head. Fair enough. But I do get a bit suspicious when people who are self-proclaimed IDM nuts can slag off Bjork/Orbital whilst singing the praises of Mira Calix/Bola.

quoted 2 lines Oh, and btw if you read the linear notes it clearly states that it was

>Oh, and btw if you read the linear notes it clearly states that it was >PRODUCED by Mark Bell and written by Björk.

Except the ear-bleeder that is 'Pluto', which Mark Bell co-wrote.

quoted 2 lines When Mark Bell writes tracks it sounds like that last track on Warp 100

>When Mark Bell writes tracks it sounds like that last track on Warp 100 >which isn't really the same thing, at least not to my ears.

Then again, given how much of a Bell/LFO fan I am, I thought his Speed Jack tracks were shite. /\/)ark http://www.sonance.demon.co.uk/

quoted 29 lines Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:01:03 -0400

>Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:01:03 -0400 >To: mark@sonance.demon.co.uk (Mark Stevens) >From: Meld Media <meld@idirect.com> >Subject: Re: (idm) Whether Chantal`s actually any good. >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > > >>Where was I going with this? Ah yes -- if you have a problem with >>Bjork being on MTV, then obviously this corporate entity has somehow >>gone medieval with your musical tastes. Do you honestly mean to tell >>me that if Bjork released limited edition vinyl copies of her music on >>Skam, it would suddenly be "better"? Because that's the way you're >>coming across. > > >This is where we may have a problem! Everyone should hope that Wells >doesn't find out that Fat Cat realeased a vinyl only 12" featuring the >Funkstorung mix of Bjork's 'All Is Full Of Love' backed with a Funkstorung >track called 'This Shit'. > >We may have a reversal of his remarkably lofty opinions. > >But this, of course, is only my humble opinion. > >Ian. > >

id give her props for admitting idm is a good thing. she's always been involved in some sort of electronic experimentation...with other people like barney sumner, 808 state, etc...

quoted 2 lines at least chantal isn't some moron halfwit who prances around

> >>at least chantal isn't some moron halfwit who prances around

pretending to

quoted 6 lines be a fairy or mystic or some other annoying

>>be a fairy or mystic or some other annoying >>from-the-darkwoode-forest-fantasy-type-thing. > >oh, mother of god! > >you can't see how much bjork's done for techno/idm in the US as

compared to

quoted 9 lines "electronica?"

>"electronica?" > >how else is the avg. American consumer going to hear music from Massey, >Plaid and Mark Bell? > >and she's more of a musician than you give her credit for. > > >

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At 07:27 PM 8/6/98 -0400, wells wrote:

quoted 29 lines At 10:40 PM 8/6/98 GMT, Mark Stevens wrote:

>At 10:40 PM 8/6/98 GMT, Mark Stevens wrote: >> >>I'm on no Bjork butt-licking mission here. I've bought loads of Bjork, >>loads of Mira Calix and enjoy them both. If you want to restrict your >>tastes, then that's your lookout. > >yes, i'm sorry i restrict my musical tastes to stuff that isn't shit (i.e. >bjork). i am sorry for you and i extend my condolences about you spending >money on Bjork - it's not _my_ fault. > >i've listened to every record she's made. > >i've listened to every sugarcubes record. > >all of them are garbage. even at moments when they approach a tolerable >level, she comes in and ruins it all with her obnoxious voice. > >she _sucks_. > >>But let's look at what we've got -- two Mira Calix 10-inches on Warp >>(plus a compilation appearance) produced by Booth/Brown and Clifford >>against a whole stack of Bjork productions handled by Graham Massey, >>808 State, Mark Bell, Tim Simenon, Plaid, Black Dog, Funkstorung, >>Tricky, etc. > >Yeah, put those Mira Calix tracks up against a whole slew of Bjork records >that are garbage. > >Garbage upon garbage still equals garbage.

I just listened to the Talvin Singh remixes of Hyperballad. Brilliant. The Howie B remix ... brilliant. Black Dog mixes of other tracks ... brilliant. Photek remix ... brilliant. LFO remixes ... brilliant. Homogenic ... brilliant. The 808 State tracks from Ex:el ... brilliant. All I can say Wells, is that your musical taste is equal to your ability to express yourself intelligently. At 09:47 PM 8/7/98 GMT, Mark Stevens wrote:

quoted 10 lines I think some people get a bit scared when too many people start

>I think some people get a bit scared when too many people start >listening to music they're interested in. For them, a <insert >innovative but commercially successful group here> album was once a >little private place they could retreat to when the going got tough, >but now everyone seems to stopping off there for a picnic. > >It's a purely psychological thing -- there are people out there who >are completely incapable of enjoying (or admitting to enjoying) music >that's enjoyed by a wide audience. It offends their sense of >individuality.

For awhile I thought I might have this problem, but then I realized that I love the Pet Shop Boys. So much for that theory! :) Che rock - rok (v.) - having a conventional and/or boring nature. ex: "Khakis rock". "That Rolling Stones show rocked". syn: suck.