IDM Mailing Archive

-----Original Message----- From: Luke Keenan <lukek@insight-media.co.uk> To: idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org> Date: 03 June 1998 00:44 Subject: (idm) vvm/speedranch

quoted 5 lines Map One: contaminated by technique - by members of this parish of

>Map One: contaminated by technique - by members of this parish of >course. Theres a high standard throughout, and there's enjoyment to >be had, but its all reminiscent/derivative of the well known. Its >easily said, but I've heard aphex twin, and autechre, and they are >difficult to improve upon. So why try?

Um...Stuart, help!! I think this was a point Adam raised in his review, that some/most of the tracks were similar to or heavily-influenced by more well known artists. As I can only speak for myself and not the other guys on the CD, I`ll say that I wasn`t trying to improve on any artist`s previous work, but rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what influences they have, and while I`m not going to blatantly steal from another track, I`ll readily use techniques pioneered by others in my own tracks. How original is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. And if, by drawing influences from others I actually branch off and come up with something different/original, then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with something totally original, you`ll end up with something totally shite. I`ll stand by every one of those tracks on Map One and defend them as utterly valid, thoughtful and release-worthy tracks. Some of them I might even think of as <gasp> pretty original. Anyway, it`s nine quid for 16 tracks, so what are you moaning about? :-) <---HEATsink--->

this post from "Heatsink" is probably the most interesting thing i've read in a while...

quoted 2 lines rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what

>rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what >influences they have, and while I`m not going to blatantly steal from

another

quoted 1 line track, I`ll readily use techniques pioneered by others in my own tracks.

>track, I`ll readily use techniques pioneered by others in my own tracks.

How i'm not sure if i'm understanding you right, but it has always seemed to me, consciously choosing "influences" is a natural stage in the making of an artist/musician - it usually leads to "adolescent posturing". it's outgrowing this attachment to one or two writers/musicians, or even say, a certain period/style, when an artist/musician becomes so-called "mature". you bring up an interesting point about "precursors", though, a word that has become indispensable in a critic's vocabulary. for example, naming a current-day musician's precursors - say, We for example - i'm sure we could all enumerate a heterogeneous list in which all resemble We in some way; however, if i'm not mistaken, not all of them would resemble each other. this second fact is the more significant. in each of those musicians listed, we would find We's "idiosyncrasy" to a greater or lesser degree, but if We had never formed and recorded some songs, we would have never perceived this quality; in other words, it would not exist. the poem "Fears and Scruples" by Browning foretells Kafka's work, but our reading of Kafka perceptibly sharpens and deflects our reading of the poem. Browning did not read it as we do now. get it? my basic point is that the word "precursors" should be cleansed of all connotations of polemics or rivalry, imho. the fact is that every writer/musician *creates* his own precursors. his work modifies our conception of the past, as it will modify the future (see either T.S. Eliot's "Tradition and The Individual Talent and/or "Points of View"). in this correlation the identity or plurality of the men involved is unimportant.

quoted 2 lines original is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. And if, by drawing influences

>original is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. And if, by drawing influences >from others I actually branch off and come up with something

different/original,

quoted 2 lines then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with

>then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with >something totally original, you`ll end up with something totally shite.

couldn't agree with you more. some of the most individual parts of a work of art/song are those which are the most traditional - and i don't feel that i'm taking a conservative standpoint. i've been sensing the increasing tendency to equate originality with perversity...not that i have a problem with the perverse... just a thought, please don't flame my mailbox (again, unless you're from Cambridge, MA). Dunc. p.s. next week, i'll tell you all the story of Ishmael Reed and the 18 year-old Victor Hernandez Cruz failing spanish class...

On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Heatsink wrote: ->rather to make *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what ->influences ->they have, and while I`m not going to blatantly steal from another track, ->I`ll ->readily use techniques pioneered by others in my own tracks. How original ->is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. So you are borrowing techniques from artists (such as aphex) who are unoriginal themselves? I don't think it is a very cool thing to borrow from someone and then turn around and call *them* unoriginal. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. ->And if, by drawing influences from ->others I actually branch off and come up with something different/original, ->then great. Chances are, if you spend all your time trying to come up with ->something totally original, you`ll end up with something totally shite. One person's shit is another person's gold. It's possible that something totally original will take a while to completely understand and appreciate (and it could seem like "total shite" at first). But at any rate, I would rather listen to someone spending all their time trying to come up with something original than someone copying someone who copied someone else (i'm NOT saying that this is what Map One is doing). ->I`ll stand by every one of those tracks on Map One and defend them as ->utterly valid, thoughtful and release-worthy tracks. Some of them I might ->even think of as <gasp> pretty original. Unfortunately, I haven't heard Map One yet (but all I have heard is good things, and I'm looking forward to hearing it), so take what I say with a grain of salt. respect, ______________________________________________________________________________ . . ..a n a g r a m a t c a t s d o t u c s c d o t e d u.. . . . . ..h y p e r t e x t t r a n s f e r p r o t o c o l.. . . ..u s e r s d o t c w n e t d o t c o m s l a s h a n a g r a m..

On 3 Jun 98 , Heatsink wrote:

quoted 14 lines -----Original Message-----

> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Luke Keenan <lukek@insight-media.co.uk> > To: idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org> > Date: 03 June 1998 00:44 > Subject: (idm) vvm/speedranch > > > >Map One: contaminated by technique - by members of this parish of > >course. Theres a high standard throughout, and there's enjoyment to > >be had, but its all reminiscent/derivative of the well known. Its > >easily said, but I've heard aphex twin, and autechre, and they are > >difficult to improve upon. So why try?

cheap shot - ok.

quoted 12 lines Um...Stuart, help!! I think this was a point Adam raised in his

> > Um...Stuart, help!! I think this was a point Adam raised in his > review, that some/most of the tracks were similar to or > heavily-influenced by more well known artists. As I can only speak > for myself and not the other guys on the CD, I`ll say that I wasn`t > trying to improve on any artist`s previous work, but rather to make > *mine* the best it can be. No-one can help or choose what > influences they have, and while I`m not going to blatantly steal > from another track, I`ll readily use techniques pioneered by others > in my own tracks. How original is the Aphex Twin anyway? Not very. > And if, by drawing influences from others I actually branch off and > come up with something different/original, then great.

I suppose the point I was trying to make is that I would rather hear more of your own input, wether it be good or bad. just to hear a track that makes me think 'what was that?', just something a little different. Originality isnt all, but its difficult to take the same melodies/rythmns/sounds and to come up with a killer track. Afx may not have dreamt the entire show up himself, but he's certainly inspired many. Right place and time? or talent, musical or otherwise.

quoted 3 lines Chances are,

> Chances are, > if you spend all your time trying to come up with something totally > original, you`ll end up with something totally shite.

There is always the aspect of trying too hard. There's little to gain from attempting to mutate for the sake of it, unless you're dissatisfied to start with.

quoted 4 lines I`ll stand by every one of those tracks on Map One and defend them

> > I`ll stand by every one of those tracks on Map One and defend them > as utterly valid, thoughtful and release-worthy tracks. Some of > them I might even think of as <gasp> pretty original.

I agree, Map One is a worthwhile project. It may be a little churlish of me to complain, but I wanted it to be superb. Fuck it, do what you do and enjoy doing it. I'll shut up now.

quoted 13 lines Anyway, it`s nine quid for 16 tracks, so what are you moaning about?

> > Anyway, it`s nine quid for 16 tracks, so what are you moaning about? > :-) > > <---HEATsink---> > > > > > > > >