IDM Mailing Archive

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:05:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Blag Jesus Sex Machine <blag@gawth.com> To: Greg Eden <greg@warp-net.com> Subject: Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement Mr. Eden: Well, I removed all of the files as soon as I got your message, so there will be no need to persue any any legal action regarding this matter.

quoted 2 lines We have discussed your actions with Sean Booth and Rob Brown and they

> We have discussed your actions with Sean Booth and Rob Brown and they > are both personally extremely offended.

That really bothers me. Offended that people want to hear their music? *Nothing* on that page was (note the past tense) available for *purchase*, the intent behind it was to share the *music* with *fans* who would buy every single one of those records if given the opportunity. Given the choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing... but as with most good electronic music, there's an serious scarcity issue, and for some people my site was the only way to hear some of the most outstanding tracks recorded by Mr. Brown and Mr. Booth. Had I posted Tri Repetae, or any of the other commercially available albums, then I think you'd have every right to pull the plug... but that, Mr. Eden, is not what I did. I went so far as to include a link to your site, and pointed out on the page that I would not post any material that was available for purchase. Had any of the files I had posted been rereleased, I would have taken the files down. This makes no difference, but I want to make it extremely clear that I had absolutely no intention of "offending" Mr. Brown and Mr. Booth, my actions were purely based on my admiriation of them and thier music. Hopefully something positive can come out of this, and perhaps Mr. Booth and Mr. Brown will see the demand for these particular tracks and perhaps make them available in the future. .Bil. for and on behalf of IAMaCOPIER ltd.

quoted 3 lines choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and

> choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to > that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing...

pure nonsense! you're beginning to sound like a conscientious software pirate! not everyone, even in this secular little scene, is a rabid record collector, and i'm sure many of those 900 were glad to get hold of some music for free. place a bit of vinyl in front of them some time in the future and ask them to pay out money for something they already have a 95% accurate copy of, and i'd be surprised if more than a very small minority would do so without hesitation. i don't think anyone can deny that making freely available copies of music with the quality of mp3 (and please, no fucking boring arguments about how 'bad' mp3 sounds) will take away a certain amount of revenue from the record company that owns the recordings. though whether the increased exposure that freely available mp3 music can bring actually increases future record sales is another thing.... <waves>

quoted 11 lines choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and

> > choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > > BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to > > that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing... > > pure nonsense! you're beginning to sound like a conscientious software > pirate! not everyone, even in this secular little scene, is a rabid record > collector, and i'm sure many of those 900 were glad to get hold of some > music for free. place a bit of vinyl in front of them some time in the > future and ask them to pay out money for something they already have a 95% > accurate copy of, and i'd be surprised if more than a very small minority > would do so without hesitation. i don't think anyone can deny that making

I hope you're right (sort of) because that might make so of the damn bids I've put in go down =) http://www.sonic.net/~brap/ sfwd.dyn.ml.org [on rare occasion* [V/VM][blackdog] ETC-+/////////// @ICq#12645306.......? .brap@sonic.net

On Tue, 19 May 1998, siliconvortex wrote:

quoted 6 lines choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and

> > choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > > BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to > > that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing... > > pure nonsense! you're beginning to sound like a conscientious software > pirate! not everyone, even in this secular little scene, is a rabid record

<blah blah blah>

quoted 3 lines freely available copies of music with the quality of mp3 (and please, no

> freely available copies of music with the quality of mp3 (and please, no > fucking boring arguments about how 'bad' mp3 sounds) will take away a > certain amount of revenue from the record company that owns the recordings.

You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page are available for purchase. So what "revenue" are they being denied? THEY >ALREADY< MADE THEIR MONEY OFF OF THIS STUFF. Was I charging for access to the files? No. I didn't put up any of the commercially available material, I had a link to warp-net, I did it out of respect for autechre's music, which I felt should be heard. Apparently the Sean and Rob feel differently about it, and so does their label, so I deleted everything. I didn't deny anyone of any revenue, and I certainly wasn't profiting from it. I kept the site pretty low key, the only public announcement of the site was to this list, and I made efforts to keep it from appearing in search engines... the site was intended for the FAN, and only the FAN. If you want to talk about denying revenue, look at the prices some of these records go for after they've been out of print for a while. What's the lesser evil here, Mr. Vortex? Anyway, I'm not saying anything else about this, I don't want to piss off warp any more than I already have, I don't want to piss off autechre more than I already have, BUT I refuse to be crucified for doing what I thought was a cool thing for the fans of autechre who couldn't get thier own copies of these releases. This horse is dead. .Bil. IAMaCOPIER

quoted 2 lines You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page

>You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page >are available for purchase. So what "revenue" are they being denied?

You're so full of shit your eyes are brown. If the lists you posted to IDM are any indication, half the tracks you put up are in print and easily available. I'm talking about stuff like the Ming remix, the Mike Ink remix, the Scorn remix, the St Etienne remix, the Space Time Continuum remix etc. C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "Never really been too happy, never really been too sad And he doesn't know what he wanted, and he doesn't know what he had"

I think a great idea for Booth/Brown would be to pull an *Orb* and put out a double album of all the remixes they've done ...I can dream, it's probably a nightmare to organize, but....it'll save us loads of cash buying an album/single for one mix and the work is done for them, they could make some extra cash to buy shiny new cars.............. spaul "even better than the real thing?" siliconvortex wrote:

quoted 19 lines choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and

> > choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > > BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to > > that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing... > > pure nonsense! you're beginning to sound like a conscientious software > pirate! not everyone, even in this secular little scene, is a rabid record > collector, and i'm sure many of those 900 were glad to get hold of some > music for free. place a bit of vinyl in front of them some time in the > future and ask them to pay out money for something they already have a 95% > accurate copy of, and i'd be surprised if more than a very small minority > would do so without hesitation. i don't think anyone can deny that making > freely available copies of music with the quality of mp3 (and please, no > fucking boring arguments about how 'bad' mp3 sounds) will take away a > certain amount of revenue from the record company that owns the recordings. > > though whether the increased exposure that freely available mp3 music can > bring actually increases future record sales is another thing.... > > <waves>

----------

quoted 10 lines From: Chris.Hilker <cspot@hyperreal.org>

> From: Chris.Hilker <cspot@hyperreal.org> > To: Ironic Dance Music <idm@hyperreal.org> > Subject: RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd) > Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 6:02 PM > > >You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page > >are available for purchase. So what "revenue" are they being denied? > > You're so full of shit your eyes are brown. If the lists you posted to > IDM are any indication, half the tracks you put up are in print and

easily available. I'm talking about stuff like the Ming remix, the Mike Ink remix,

quoted 1 line the Scorn remix, the St Etienne remix, the Space Time Continuum remix

> the Scorn remix, the St Etienne remix, the Space Time Continuum remix

etc.

quoted 2 lines

> >

bull shit!! it would be near impossible to find at least 85% of the songs we put up. AND the st. etienne remix is and has been out of print for a while. you go ahead and try to find most of the stuff we put up, you can't, you really can't. and since when were you the voice of the public? -kiya

quoted 9 lines You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page

>> >You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page >> >are available for purchase. So what "revenue" are they being denied? >> >> You're so full of shit your eyes are brown. If the lists you posted to >> IDM are any indication, half the tracks you put up are in print and >easily available. I'm talking about stuff like the Ming remix, the Mike Ink >remix, >> the Scorn remix, the St Etienne remix, the Space Time Continuum remix >etc.

quoted 2 lines bull shit!! it would be near impossible to find at least 85% of the songs

>bull shit!! it would be near impossible to find at least 85% of the songs >we put up.

Uh, not unless blarg or whatever his name is didn't tell us about half the stuff on the page here. (And note that I based my original comment on the lists he posted.) I count all these as easy to find: (You can get most of them from cdnow) merzbow - ECOBONDAGE (ae rmx) spacetime continuum - STRING OF PEARLS (ae rmx) scorn - FALLING (ae rmx) softballet Mike Ink: Paroles (ae rmx) Gescom: May Ae Slowly: On the Loose (ae rmx) Kinesthesia: Sang (ae rmx) These ones are the harder to find ones. Some of them are actually not very difficult to come by (like the Palmskin one). palmskin productions beaumont hannant - PSI-ONYX (ae rmx) lamb - GOLD (ae rmx) autechre - BASSCADOUBLEMX (rmx by beaumont hannant) ae: 12/4 cadetmx (reproduced by beaumont hannant) Impulse: one-six-four-seven (ae rmx) St. Etienne: Like a Motorway (ae rmx) Gescom: Keynell (a side and b side) So that's eight easy to find tracks and eight harder to find tracks that he mentioned on the list. My math skills might be shaky but it looks to me more like a 50-50 than a 15-85% ratio. (In other words, "half the tracks," like I said to begin with.)

quoted 2 lines AND the st. etienne remix is and has been out of print for a

>AND the st. etienne remix is and has been out of print for a >while.

This was a mistake on my part, I could've sworn it was on Casino Classics. Too bad it's not more readily available, it's one of Ae's worthwhile tracks.

quoted 2 lines you go ahead and try to find most of the stuff we put up, you

>you go ahead and try to find most of the stuff we put up, you >can't, you really can't.

Even if that were true, it's no excuse. You were doing something bad and you got caught. When this happens to adults, they own up and move on.

quoted 1 line and since when were you the voice of the public?

>and since when were you the voice of the public?

I've *always* been the voice of the public. C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "Never really been too happy, never really been too sad And he doesn't know what he wanted, and he doesn't know what he had"

Chris.Hilker wrote:

quoted 2 lines Even if that were true, it's no excuse. You were doing something bad and

> Even if that were true, it's no excuse. You were doing something bad and > you got caught. When this happens to adults, they own up and move on.

No excuse for what? He was doing everyone on this list who did not own these and could not find them a favor! I am one of the ppl whom if i were to find these recordings, despite that i had the mp3 sitting in my computer, would still buy the recording. Maybe others would not , but why would you take up tons of computer space up on your computer for an artist whom you did not like enough to support financially? How much cheaper are you getting off putting it on your hard drive vs buying it anyway....harddrives aren't free ya know. True, warp isn't getting this money, but they weren't going to recieve money for many of the recordings that were on the page. I've looked for several of these and haven't been able to find them. I've been looking for Palmskin for several months now and only found it this wkend. sorry in advance if this make me seem less than mature -- end transmission.

On Tue, 19 May 1998 21:40:24 -0500, you wrote:

quoted 2 lines True, warp isn't getting this money, but they weren't going to recieve money

>True, warp isn't getting this money, but they weren't going to recieve money >for many of the recordings that were on the page.

How do you know? It's possible (and highly likely) most of these remixes were licensed to the respective record labels by Warp.

quoted 2 lines I've looked for several of these and haven't been able to find them. I've b

>I've looked for several of these and haven't been able to find them. I've been >looking for Palmskin for several months now and only found it this wkend.

Warp also reserve the right to re-release any of Autechre's stuff in the future. If most of the likely candidates for re-release are sitting on hard drives as MP3s, then it's certainly not to their advantage. /\/)ark

Seems to me I remember a friend telling me about a production T-shirt he made with Yoda on in. Lucas Film got wind and filed a cease and desist order. He stopped production on the T-shirts upon receiving the court order. As far as I know Lucas could only sue for money if he continued to profit on production of shirts manufactured after the order. I'm pretty sure music is the same way. So even if Warp tried to sue they would have much to get through before actually trying to get money. Plus if no money was being made off the tracks and they are out of production a judge would have a pretty hard time granting much of a settlement. Probably a small fine would be more in line. I don't understand the big piss about mp3's is anyway. There's thousands of hours of the shit out there from live recordings to you name it. Hell, there's worse offenders! Should a DJ get sued for making a real audio broadcast from a private site? Should I get sued if I make a tape of my favorite tracks and give it to a friend? I'm not making a profit and THEY'RE not loosing money, so what's the big deal? Hell, my friend might be more inclined to go out and BUY the record or CD of a song she liked on a tape I made her. It's one of those boarder line issues, but the law is on the side of the copywrite owner. I doubt Warp is having a hard time selling records though. They ought to lighten up, IMO. -rbc3

On Tue, 19 May 1998 22:32:37 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 3 lines It's one of those boarder line issues, but the law is on the side of

>It's one of those boarder line issues, but the law is on the side of >the copywrite owner. I doubt Warp is having a hard time selling >records though. They ought to lighten up, IMO.

Besides, Warp don't seem too fussed by that huge Aphex Twin MP3 archive on the net. And when I say huge, I mean practically every single fucking track the guy's written! /\/)ark

Re,

quoted 5 lines I think a great idea for Booth/Brown would be to pull an *Orb* and put

> I think a great idea for Booth/Brown would be to pull an *Orb* and put > out a double album of all the remixes they've done ...I can dream, > it's probably a nightmare to organize, but....it'll save us loads of > cash buying an album/single for one mix and the work is done for them, > they could make some extra cash to buy shiny new cars..............

Yeah that would be nice! Wish Booth/Brown had Paterson/Hughes cool views on mp3's of their music. I don't have the post anymore (it was posted to the Orb list), but their stance is they are cool with mp3's of their music that are out of print, and thus not depriving them of income. Cool guys... cool music. OnNow: tape containing unreleased Balil tracks with many from the Bytes era. Way cool!! I wonder why none of this ever got a commercial release!? Regards, John

337is wrote:

quoted 5 lines "I think a great idea for Booth/Brown would be to pull an *Orb* and put out

> "I think a great idea for Booth/Brown would be to pull an *Orb* and put out > a > double album of all the remixes they've done ..." > > I'd sign my name to a petition for said cause . . .

Cool, let's start a petition to get an "official" Ae Rmx album!!!! that way everyone is happy, Warp gets money, booth/brown get thier art out in one place(and money) and we get good quality hard to find songs in good conscience .......even if it's a ltd edition thing... wuddya think? spaul

quoted 5 lines Can anyone confirm or deny AE is opening for Kraftwerk on selected dates?

> > > Can anyone confirm or deny AE is opening for Kraftwerk on selected dates? > > 337is

I think this is the best idea I´we heard for a long time! But I don´t think that there is a change this will happen, simply becouse Booth/Brown want to keep their music underground. -----Original Message----- From: Simon Paul <spaul@radical.ca> To: lrollin@ibm.net <lrollin@ibm.net>; idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org> Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 5:42 PM Subject: Re: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)

quoted 5 lines 337is wrote:

> > >337is wrote: > >> "I think a great idea for Booth/Brown would be to pull an *Orb* and put

out

quoted 8 lines a

>> a >> double album of all the remixes they've done ..." >> >> I'd sign my name to a petition for said cause . . . > >Cool, let's start a petition to get an "official" Ae Rmx album!!!! that way >everyone is happy, Warp gets money, booth/brown get thier art out in one >place(and money) and we get good quality hard to find songs in good

conscience

quoted 13 lines .......even if it's a ltd edition thing...

>.......even if it's a ltd edition thing... >wuddya think? > >spaul > >> >> >> Can anyone confirm or deny AE is opening for Kraftwerk on selected dates? >> >> 337is > > >

So that's why they're getting wider/cheaper distribution through Nothing Records(admittedly still yet to be seen) in the States, to keep thier music underground? You should've seen the media blitz when Nothing signed PWEI! Ummmm......I think it's just a bit far fetched in so far as getting the rights to release other peoples *work*..but it has been done in the past and they pretty much rework stuff into thier own mold anyway.... spaul Frimann Freyr Bjornsson wrote:

quoted 38 lines I think this is the best idea I´we heard for a long time! But I don´t think

> I think this is the best idea I´we heard for a long time! But I don´t think > that there is a change this will happen, simply becouse Booth/Brown want to > keep their music underground. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Paul <spaul@radical.ca> > To: lrollin@ibm.net <lrollin@ibm.net>; idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org> > Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 5:42 PM > Subject: Re: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd) > > > > > > >337is wrote: > > > >> "I think a great idea for Booth/Brown would be to pull an *Orb* and put > out > >> a > >> double album of all the remixes they've done ..." > >> > >> I'd sign my name to a petition for said cause . . . > > > >Cool, let's start a petition to get an "official" Ae Rmx album!!!! that way > >everyone is happy, Warp gets money, booth/brown get thier art out in one > >place(and money) and we get good quality hard to find songs in good > conscience > >.......even if it's a ltd edition thing... > >wuddya think? > > > >spaul > > > >> > >> > >> Can anyone confirm or deny AE is opening for Kraftwerk on selected dates? > >> > >> 337is > > > > > >