IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 7 lines So I went to the Warp web site to have a listen to the Jimi Tenor

>>So I went to the Warp web site to have a listen to the Jimi Tenor >>album via RealAudio. I came away with the following conclusion: >>out of 11 maketh not an IDM recording, no matter what label it's >>on.Why he gets any play on this list at all is totally beyond me. > >*shrug* >the idm definition has been laughable since it's creation. for me >>>

This is very interesting since I was discussing this with my boyfriend recently. What is idm and why has the idm list deteriorated into this mess? My answer: there is no longer a thing called "idm". It accurately described a style of music, a la Warp, a few years ago, but it's over. There is so much variety in styles now, from Old Aphex Twin, to New Aphex Twin, to B12, to Jimi Tenor, to Orbital, that all anyone can do is fight all the time. It's not a discussion anymore. The common language that made idm a topic is gone and it's turned into one nasty flame war after another, often trying to define what it is they are fighting about. I used to be able to rely on this list for excellent music recommendations in a genre of music I enjoy more than any other. This is no longer the case. Trying to pick out the bits of information about what used to be called "idm" amongst this list's many egotists' rantings is becoming very difficult. Thankfully, many web sites are now offering sound samples so I can visit and listen to something before I accidentally buy a piece of crap. I have avoided potential mistakes (thank you, Warp!) and found several gems this way (thank you, Warp!) and it's a great technological tool. Far more reliable than someone recommending an awful recording in order to appear "kewl." BTW, your pants are too big and your ass is showing. Oops, sorry, you meant to look that way... As for people thinking they are "kewl" because they listen to an artist who is "underground" and then scream "traitor" as soon as said artist sells more than 1000 cd's or is shown on MTV (like they shouldn't be able to pay the rent? TBD deserves better). I hope you don't think this is something new! I am probably one of the older members (in age and membership) of this list and have to tell you that people have *always* considered themselves superior to other people because of the music they listened to. And now, 30 years later, those records have been mastered to cd and are now an $8.99 "nice price" at Tower. I can only laugh at all this posturing because I know from experience that it means absolutely nothing and will change as often as people change their socks and underwear (preferably, but not always, every day). Perhaps if the "idm list" weren't called idm, people wouldn't have the expectations they do and the dire need to constantly prove eachother wrong. What I haven't figured out yet is: what is the prize for being "right"? Here's a kleenex, use it. And to all the nice, talented, friendly, intelligent idm'ers I've met via private mail: thank you. Please keep in touch. Thanks for listening... Jan * * * Jan Hanford - jan@shelby.com Shelby Group Ltd. - Internet Software Developers C o r p o r a t e - http://www.shelby.com/ P e r s o n a l - http://www.tile.net/jan/

On Wednesday, 02-Apr-97, Jan Hanford wrote [about (idm) idm has no clothes]:

quoted 4 lines So I went to the Warp web site to have a listen to the Jimi Tenor

>>>So I went to the Warp web site to have a listen to the Jimi Tenor >>>album via RealAudio. I came away with the following conclusion: >>>out of 11 maketh not an IDM recording, no matter what label it's >>>on.Why he gets any play on this list at all is totally beyond me.

I love Jimi Tenor, he's my fav. next to AFX, but the only reason he's being talked about on this list is because he's on Warp. I do think he's IDM, but I won't make flames about it. You're right, I reckon there is no solid definition for IDM.

quoted 12 lines I used to be able to rely on this list for excellent music

>I used to be able to rely on this list for excellent music >recommendations in a genre of music I enjoy more than any other. This >is no longer the case. Trying to pick out the bits of information >about what used to be called "idm" amongst this list's many egotists' >rantings is becoming very difficult. Thankfully, many web sites are >now offering sound samples so I can visit and listen to something >before I accidentally buy a piece of crap. I have avoided potential >mistakes (thank you, Warp!) and found several gems this way (thank >you, Warp!) and it's a great technological tool. Far more reliable >than someone recommending an awful recording in order to appear >"kewl." BTW, your pants are too big and your ass is showing. Oops, >sorry, you meant to look that way...

I think doing anything to appear "kewl" is quite stupid. Actually no, it's not stupid, it's childish really. it's like we're back in high school again (at least I'm out of high school =) .. and to certain people on this list from other countries I dunno how it is there, but that's how it is here in the US.

quoted 5 lines As for people thinking they are "kewl" because they listen to an

>As for people thinking they are "kewl" because they listen to an >artist who is "underground" and then scream "traitor" as soon as >said artist sells more than 1000 cd's or is shown on MTV (like they >shouldn't be able to pay the rent? TBD deserves better). I hope >you don't think this is something new! I am probably one of the

I agree 100% here.. I hate it when people say that. Of course I really hope that the music doesn't get 'watered down' with it's going mainstream like everyone thinks, but I don't follow the "it's going mainstream ! that sucks, it has to stay underground!!" philosophy, I think if it goes mainstream it's better for the music. and now i'm sure I'll get super-flamed for this. bah.. -- __ __\ \ Aurafix aka Hillie / PHD ^ DAMONES (aka Rare Guy) / /_\ \ http://www.clark.net/pub/buh/index.html \_____/ >> buh@clark.net >> < > .. >> .<>> >> > , m7= inducing mindwaves.. electronic techno muuusik controlled manually by a p h e x t wi n .. .. . . .

Jan Hanford wrote:

quoted 17 lines *shrug*

> > > > > >*shrug* > >the idm definition has been laughable since it's creation. for me > >>> > > This is very interesting since I was discussing this with my > boyfriend recently. What is idm and why has the idm list > deteriorated into this mess? > > My answer: there is no longer a thing called "idm". > And to all the nice, talented, friendly, intelligent idm'ers I've > met via private mail: thank you. Please keep in touch. > > Thanks for listening... > > Jan

Well is the "IDM" music style becoming what is now "Alternative" music style, for a long time, Alternative was really alternative to other style of music ( mid 80's rock), but now as the trend began to grow, everyone made music that was an alternative to the old rock of the 80's, so now good ol' rock is alternative again. IDM is now becoming at a stage where some people started making music that was different to other Techno bands of the early 90's, and as the trend grew, more and more artists are doing IDM, what will happen, where does that kind of music's going, I don't know; but I find that today's IDM is not what I like most, and artists I'm listening to are evolving into something different. I think that idm still exists and a mail-list is still a good idea/ Max. a different way that

Jan Hanford wrote: An extremely well thought out articulation of what I agree has happened to this particular niche of the musical spectrum. I, like you, have been on, and relied upon, this list for several years now.. and never has it been so empty in content. I suspect its because this type of music has gained a larger popularity and has attracted attention by people that are "just curious" and not as informed (not a bad thing, just louder). Meanwhile, the list polarizes into underground v. discovered strength arguments; and, meanwhile, the music evolves (I'd hypothesize..) quicker than any previous genre of music; leaving us with jazz fusion artists (a la Red Snapper) getting attention alongside the purely electronic (ala Ae) getting attention alongside the Ninjas etc. etc. DrumNBass's popularity explosion hasn't done anything but hurt the list's cohesion of the past. The pranksters of the list (like Phlangeface) haven't helped anything by keeping the list on the topic of things like "what are IDMers sexual preferences?" And the way people have responded to these types of comments in the past has changed toward more of a "let's play along" attitude. I don't like digests, so I get the messages as they come, and I get a mailbox full of messages from IDM (about 40-80) per day with maybe 5 with musical content _not_ based on "it sucks" type of posts. My delete key is getting too much exercise (for IDM posts) and I've lacked the time or patience to post to the mayhem to bring up the S/N ratio as of late. (Although I'm not helping the S/N now) No answers lately, only questions. Kev. -- -- FreyGuy <Everyday is FreyDay> Network & Lotus Notes Administrator Hansen Corporation / A Minebea Group Company KevFrey@evansville.net --------- Kfrey@nyx.net WebSite: http://www.evansville.net/~kevfrey/ " 'I need a philly right before I get loose..,'-poor excuse! Money please, I get loose off of Orange Juice!!" - Phifer, TribeCalledQuest

quoted 1 line

>

there is no longer a thing called "idm". THANK YOU JAN! I couldn't have said it better myself. People need to quit bickering over what is IDM. Why can't we just enjoy the music for what it has to offer regardless if it fits into this common buzz word that's suppose to represent a certain validity in the quality of electronic music. Why aren't we discussing about the music anymore. All I ever see is "I'm the authority on this topic" attittude. To all of you I say get off of your high horse and get back to just enjoying the music. Why not give try to just give a personal decription about a particular song/artist instead of slashing them.Oh, I get it...I'm missing the point aren't I. Ben Synaptic Records (Rick and Ben) 608 S. Broadway Denver, CO 80209 (303) 722-9428 (phone) (303) 722-9540 (fax) synaptic@eazy.net www.eazy.net/synaptic-records/

Wow, all I was trying to do was figure out why so many people on this list have such a high opinion of Jimi Tenor, seeing as his style of music seemed to clash pretty dramatically with what is typically discussed on this list (whatever that is). I wasn't necessarily trying to slam him (though the fact that I didn't like it very much was pretty clear), but I was trying to figure out where all the raves were coming from. It seemed pretty obvious to me on listening to the music that it didn't really fit here. It became pretty obvious that I was wrong, but I still don't know why. As for what is this list for anyways? Who knows? We're all here, though, and I think we all have reasonable expectations of what gets discussed here. There are many artists discussed here that I don't care for, but most of them, over time, seemed to fit the bill to some degree. Jimi Tenor threw me for a loop. It seemed so pedestrian, whereas most of the stuff discussed here is innovative and curious. I always viewed the "I" in IDM to mean "innovative," "inventive," or "interesting" (or combinations of the three). "Good music" can't be the only criterion. If we're all going to talk about a subject, we have to have a common vocabulary with which to discuss it. If we can't decide what the subject is, then why do we have a list to talk about it? NP: Scorn - _Zander_ -- Adam J Weitzman "Getting [your computer] to work is no more Individual, Inc. difficult than building a nuclear reactor weitzman@individual.com from wristwatch parts using only your teeth." http://www.individual.com - Dave Barry

quoted 3 lines If we can't decide what the subject is, then why do we have a list to

>If we can't decide what the subject is, then why do we have a list to >talk about it? >

I assumed the subject was electronic music. As for a common vocabulary, I think we all are using English to describe our opinions. Is there an IDM language that I failed to take a course in or something? I'm not trying to be condescending, I just get so pissed off about hearing that IDM has to be a certain rhythm, texture, idea,etc...to be considered worth something. That's Bullshit. If it is, then this music is doomed. Ben Synaptic Records (Rick and Ben) 608 S. Broadway Denver, CO 80209 (303) 722-9428 (phone) (303) 722-9540 (fax) synaptic@eazy.net www.eazy.net/synaptic-records/

Maximillien Lincourt wrote: <snip>

quoted 4 lines Jan Hanford wrote:

> > Jan Hanford wrote: > > What is idm and why has the idm list > > deteriorated into this mess?

Ignorant Dance Mess (is this our new definition?)

quoted 4 lines My answer: there is no longer a thing called "idm".

> > > > My answer: there is no longer a thing called "idm". > > And to all the nice, talented, friendly, intelligent idm'ers I've > > met via private mail: thank you. Please keep in touch.

There's no longer a thing called idm but you want idm to be in your mailbox? It still exists have Faith Jan. You yourself are IDM, it exists, go back to your studio ma'am and teach us all a little sumpin' <snip>

quoted 5 lines ; but I find

> ; but I find > that today's IDM is not what I like most, and artists I'm listening to > are evolving into something different. > > I think that idm still exists and a mail-list is still a good idea/

I agree a lot of the IDM released lately (or what I have been able to come across) is not what I like most, but IDM will not die folks. We need just stop arguing and stop worrying about what will or will not happen. Why are we not talking about the music. We never seem to talk about the music. WHo gives a rat's ass about AMP? I have never seen it nor do I care to. Do I care what MTV does? No! It won't change the effect that (example: Locust's Weathered Well) has on me. No other genre of music ever had the effect this IDM shit does. Once I heard that first beat of SAW #1 I was hooked. I think if we all retreat to that moment a bit, we may all focus more on what's important: the music. Just remember there is SOOOOOOO much unchattered territory. There's so many goddamn releases out there worthy of discussion that I can't believe we don't get 5-6 digests than the traditional 2-3. Those who are also on the Ambient list know what I mean. If there was not ONE post concerned about IDM and it's "selling out" for one week, what a relief what would be for the list. Could we all come together to agree that there should not be one post to the list from April 13th - 20th concerning itself with industry/media predictions about what them CHEMS or Prodigy will do for techno or Mtv's role in America. I am only asking for one week, it's not that hard. Shouldn't some of you be on spring break anyway? Everytime you have the urge to post about CHEM BROS, go slam some tequila shots and do a belly flop in the pool. ONE WEEK! That's all I think I need. You can do it god I should teach folks to quit smoking err sumpin' gil np: JOEY BELTRAM's AONOX (can't he release more of this style?)