very nice! i have been reading about lossless codecs and file
"shortening", and your take on makes it sound very attractive... it is
always better to read a thorough account of someone who has had a good
experience with a new method like this... i can't very well go ogg or
lossless yet... many of us are tied to the mp3 format for more reasons
than portable players. hopefully it will be possible sooner than anyone
has thought, as portable computing devices progress and become smaller
at the same time...
why is this on the idm list? perhaps the community is tied to mp3 more
than anyone would like... all though it's not all bad... i recall
reading that the very first kid 606 remix projects with his pals were
mostly done using laptops and mp3's, and i'm sure this is only one
example out of many... can anyone fill in the details on that kid 606
story?
On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 04:24 , James R Bamford wrote:
quoted 186 lines Just use MPC, not mp3.. natively its VBR (VBR is different to ABR...
> Just use MPC, not mp3.. natively its VBR (VBR is different to ABR...
> its all
> about the criteria used to detect whether more or less bitrate is
> needed..
> lame dmpreset VBR is good.. mpc is natively VBR and is highly tuned)
>
> ANyways just try mpc (aka Mpeg+, musepack) unless you need files in mp3
> for
> portable players its the better format by a long way.. just try
> encoding Fat
> Boy Slim's Kalifornia track to see how poor mp3 is... the first 50
> seconds
> is ruined, even at 320k CBR (well its far less at this bitrate but still
> evident, when its not present at 160k with mpc or ogg for that matter,
> but
> ogg is slow to encode and still behind mpc in the tuning stakes)
>
> Get the encoding/decoding software at http://www.uni-jena.de/%7Epfk/mpp/
>
> Windows versions of the software you'll need to try it is...
>
> http://www.uni-jena.de/%7Epfk/mpp/bin/mppenc-windows-0.90o.zip the
> command line encoder similar to lame in operation
>
> http://www.uni-jena.de/%7Epfk/mpp/bin/mppdec-windows-0.99c.zip the command
> line decoder
>
>
> http://www.uni-jena.de/%7Epfk/mpp/bin/in_mpc_0.90e_en.zip the winamp
> decoder plugin
>
> The beauty is using something like feurio or EAC to rip your CDs
>
> Feurio: http://www.feurio.com/English/index.shtml
> EAC: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de
>
> Feurio being the better ripper for quality but requiring registering
> after
> some usage
>
> And then either encoding directly from these programs or ripping to
> waves
> (if you have a big enough harddrive) and then using monkeys audio to
> encode
> all of the waves in one go (id3 tagging them automatically at the same
> time
> from the filenames of the waves)
>
> http://www.monkeysaudio.com
>
> Monkeys is a lossless codec as in you keep the waves but shrink them
> perfectly by 50%.. but it can be used to encode with any other command
> line
> encoder and supports auto id3 tagging and can encode 1000s in different
> directories so is ideal for leaving running..
>
> Finally MPC is VERY fast.. not quite as fast as music match jukebox but
> the
> quality out of that is so so... anything close to it quality wise is
> slower
> by a lot (nearly 4x when compared to ogg)
>
> And there you go.. the best audio compression for your electronic music
> at
> the moment...
>
> James
>
> ps. why is this on the idm list???
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: excm. prin. fuminaro konoye [mailto:fuminaro@yahoo.com]
>> Sent: 10 January 2002 20:47
>> To: Michael Plump
>> Cc: idm@hyperreal.org
>> Subject: Re: [idm] VBR vs fixed rate ripping
>>
>>
>> i meant the first generation of the mp3 codec, vs. mp3pro, not
>> reencoding, which i agree will degrade the data terribly.
>> on the vbr issue, it is my opinion that the relief of the sound may
>> have
>> a tinny quality to it, which may be more or less detectable depending
>> on
>> how high or low your bitrate is, etc., but i wouldn't want to sustain
>> this opinion in a discussion. there are so many other issues to talk
>> about besides, for example the number of instruments in a work.
>> i will also say that we sometimes get to a point on this topic where
>> discussion is really not advanceable without knowledge of engineering,
>> programming and mathematics which i simply do not posess. i have only
>> my
>> intuition in reading into this topic as a tool. so i will be the first
>> to bow out of that part of the discussion. but i will suggest, in
>> answer
>> to how "vbr might do that where cbr didn't", that a series comprised of
>> one repeated operation is more faithful than a series of different
>> operations, on principle of logic.
>> as far not accepting anything below 192k, i never said that. i was just
>> suggesting guidelines. i'll take what i can get, but i'll always shoot
>> for the best. i have had all sorts of experience with files of many and
>> diverse characteristics, and what i said is only a reflection of
>> that. i
>> will not try to detail this lengthy catalogue of testing, etc. ... of
>> course, i have no idea of what you may think is a "better" file, and
>> even less so a "good" one.
>> what i liked about what you say is your argument for being able to
>> recommend better vbr settings for any given cbr settings someone may be
>> using. i think this is indeed possible, especially for a specific
>> track,
>> although again i do not know what your idea of "better" is... for my
>> part i referred my arguments to the standards for psychoacoustics that
>> are a part of the mp3 codec; that is my idea or the idea i have
>> accepted
>> of what sounds well. the idea of finding the optimum vbr settings is
>> nonetheless always tempting.
>>
>> anyway, this was just to show what sense i think what i said may
>> contain.
>> your reply, despite its being intelligent, was somewhat rushed and
>> abbreviates where it needed the most support for its arguments... (i
>> won't stoop to calling it "a crazy statement", or claiming that "it
>> just
>> doesn't make 'logical sense' ", whatever that means, though). i guess
>> it's my fault, for not being brief, so i apologize. : )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 31, 2002, at 01:50 , Michael Plump wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, excm. prin. fuminaro konoye wrote:
>>>
>>>> if you make a VBR file you are punching the midrange of the sound
>>>> right
>>>> in the gut.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, that's just a crazy statement. How could VBR do that where
>>> CBR
>>> didn't? So you refuse to accept that anything lower than 192kbps
>>> could
>>> possibly be good? Set your minimum compression level to that, and
>>> you'll
>>> have a better file.
>>>
>>> If you're using a good encoder and you show me a quality CBR file, I
>>> can
>>> show you setting that would've produced a better sounding VBR file.
>>> Think
>>> about what you're saying. It just doesn't make logical sense.
>>>
>>>> 192 is if you just want a "useful" mp3, but it must be accepted that
>>>> the
>>>> first generation mp3 must have a higher bitrate than that for real
>>>> quality.
>>>
>>> You really shouldn't ever, ever, ever re-encode your mp3s. All of a
>>> sudden you're taking the artifacts that you produced when you encoded
>>> it
>>> the first time, and forcing your encoder to try and encode those
>>> artifacts. You're going to lose a lot of quality.
>>>
>>> I've never tried this, but I would guess that an mp3 file re-encoded
>>> from
>>> 256->192 would probably sound worse than one just encoded originally
>>> at
>>> 128. Does anyone have any experience with this?
>>>
>>
>>
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