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Re: the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...

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1994-02-25 20:58Tai Nguyen the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
1994-02-25 20:58Tai Nguyen the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
1994-02-26 00:49Michael Wertheim Re: the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
1994-02-26 02:39Matthew Moore Re: the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
1994-02-26 20:33Tai Nguyen Re: the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
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1994-02-25 20:58Tai NguyenFor some meaningless philosophical arguments, read below. For the point of FSOL/AFX bashin
From:
Tai Nguyen
Date:
Fri, 25 Feb 1994 15:58:40 -0500
Subject:
the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
For some meaningless philosophical arguments, read below. For the point of FSOL/AFX bashing, skip to the next section... I must admit that I did my best to start arguments about how FSOL and AFX suck. The reason I brought up these two specific groups is that it seemed to me as though everyone treated them as gods on this list, and I had never heard anything but praise about them. For me, this was indicative of a Emeperor's New Clothes syndrome (as someone on alt.rave aptly described it) or a Pygmalion Effect. I have always tried to avoid being labelled because I believe labels limit your own personality; when you try to define yourself, you begin to live by your definitions rather than having the definitions be a description of how you live. For example, when I first became interested in techno music, I thought that 'good' techno consisted of nothing more than The Movement "Jump". I simply hadn't been exposed to all this underground stuff. I have some friends who at that time had very similar tastes to mine (technopop swill and the like). However, the longer I was on this list, the more my opinions of music began to change from theirs, even though I let them listen to all the 'new' techno I bought. Why was this? I exposed them to new stuff yet my tastes started diverging from theirs. The reason was that a day didn't go by where I didn't hear you guys talking about how good this "intelligent" techno was and as a result I began to believe it myself. I thought this was what was happening with FSOL, AFX, and a few other groups discussed on this list. People thought they were gods mostly because everyone else said they were gods and this perpetuated a cycle which resulted in an Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome rather than deep thought. <<<The point of FSOL/AFX bashing in a nutshell>>> Everyone treats FSOL, AFX, and a few other groups like gods. I questioned their divinity because I thought it would be very healthy for people to reexamine their own consciousness. Did they like FSOL/AFX because they were truly innovative, or were they claiming that they were innovative because everyone said they were gods and therefore their stuff _had_ to be innovative by definition? I never meant it to degenerate into a stupid shouting match. I think everyone should think about the question posed, and I am sure that after you meditate on it, you will realize that music is 100% subjective. Not mostly, not a lot, but 100%. Here's something else totally unrelated musically but very related philosophically for everyone to meditate on - there is no such thing as an absolute right or wrong. peace out. ___ (:)====/__/\=(:)(:)============================(:)====================(:) |\| _\_ \ \|\||=| Tai Nguyen |\| email address: |=| |=| /__/\_\ \=||\| Cornell University |=| thn1@cornell.edu |\| |\| / /\ __/\|(:)============================(:)====================(:) |=|/ / /\ \ |=||=| "These are not my figures I'm quoting. They're |=| |\/__/ \_\/ |\||\| from someone who knows what he's talking about." |\| |=\__\/\ \ |=||=| - unknown congressman in debate |=| (:)==\__\/===(:)(:)===================================================(:)
1994-02-25 20:58Tai Nguyennutty nutshells a go go ----------------------------Original message----------------------
From:
Tai Nguyen
Date:
Fri, 25 Feb 1994 15:58:40 -0500
Subject:
the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
nutty nutshells a go go ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
quoted 4 lines I must admit that I did my best to start arguments about how FSOL> I must admit that I did my best to start arguments about how FSOL >and AFX suck. The reason I brought up these two specific groups is that it >seemed to me as though everyone treated them as gods on this list, and I >had never heard anything but praise about them. For me, this was
dont ever assume anything. . .you make an ASS out of U and ME
quoted 4 lines other groups discussed on this list. People thought they were gods mostly>other groups discussed on this list. People thought they were gods mostly >because everyone else said they were gods and this perpetuated a cycle >which resulted in an Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome rather than deep >thought.
people thought they were gods mostly because you put words in their mouths <<<The point of FSOL/AFX bashing in a nutshell>>>
quoted 2 lines their divinity because I thought it would be very healthy for people to>their divinity because I thought it would be very healthy for people to >reexamine their own consciousness. Did they like FSOL/AFX because they
People need to reexamine their own consciousness on thier own terms, not because some id is telling them to. Stick to the music, eh, we'll take care of our own philosophy. Respectfully, Teep
1994-02-26 00:49Michael Wertheim> Here's something else > totally unrelated musically but very related philosophically for
From:
Michael Wertheim
Date:
Fri, 25 Feb 94 16:49:11 PST
Subject:
Re: the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
quoted 3 lines Here's something else> Here's something else > totally unrelated musically but very related philosophically for everyone > to meditate on - there is no such thing as an absolute right or wrong.
You know what? You're absolutely right!
1994-02-26 02:39Matthew MooreOn Fri, 25 Feb 1994, Michael Wertheim wrote: > > Here's something else > > totally unrelat
From:
Matthew Moore
Date:
Sat, 26 Feb 1994 02:39:38 +0000 (GMT)
Subject:
Re: the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
On Fri, 25 Feb 1994, Michael Wertheim wrote:
quoted 7 lines Here's something else> > Here's something else > > totally unrelated musically but very related philosophically for everyone > > to meditate on - there is no such thing as an absolute right or wrong. > > You know what? You're absolutely right! > > i'm afraid not because that kind of ? cannot be answered
philosophically (in the sense of answered conclusively). Can you think of a way of proving beyond doubt that there is no absolute right or wrong? let me know if you can, and let all the fundamentlists in the world know too, they might stop killing each other.
1994-02-26 20:33Tai NguyenBounced for Mike J. Brown who wrote: ------------------------------------ Tai Nguyen wrote
From:
Tai Nguyen
Date:
Sat, 26 Feb 1994 15:33:45 -0500
Subject:
Re: the point of FSOL/AFX bashing...
Bounced for Mike J. Brown who wrote: ------------------------------------ Tai Nguyen wrote:
quoted 6 lines [paraphrase: AFX & FSOL are not the gods they are made out to be]> [paraphrase: AFX & FSOL are not the gods they are made out to be] > > I have always tried to avoid > being labelled because I believe labels limit your own personality; when > you try to define yourself, you begin to live by your definitions rather > than having the definitions be a description of how you live.
Only if you let it. A label can be just a reference point. If the only meat you eat is chicken, in comparison to most people you are a vegetarian, so if someone asks you, "are you a vegetarian?" you can say "yes" and not be under any obligation or peer pressure to restrict yourself to what may be the textbook definition of vegetarian. Applying the reasoning to music, prior to the ambient house boom, "ambient music" had a very definite meaning, encompassing basically what Brian Eno defined to be ambient and not much else except ambient industrial and perhaps the instrumental Sylvian & Czukay works. Yet as more music comes out that incorporates elements of the textbook or pure ambient, the definition of ambient has expanded to encompass these new varieties. Now one can look at what was once labelled "instrumental progressive rock" "experimental" "electronic music" etc. like all that Virgin back-catalogue stuff on A Brief History of Ambient vols. 1 & 2, and call it "ambient," whereas you couldn't (well, you *could* have, I guess) before. So if you are of strong enough character, you can "be labeled" and go on about your business in your own unique way, perhaps not conforming to the textbook definition of the label that has been applied to you, and take comfort in the knowledge that you are redefining the meaning of the label. You could apply that to record labels, too. Labels with a strongly identifiable sound are defined in part by their intent and in part by their output. Mike ___ (:)====/__/\=(:)(:)============================(:)====================(:) |\| _\_ \ \|\||=| Tai Nguyen |\| email address: |=| |=| /__/\_\ \=||\| Cornell University |=| thn1@cornell.edu |\| |\| / /\ __/\|(:)============================(:)====================(:) |=|/ / /\ \ |=||=| "These are not my figures I'm quoting. They're |=| |\/__/ \_\/ |\||\| from someone who knows what he's talking about." |\| |=\__\/\ \ |=||=| - unknown congressman in debate |=| (:)==\__\/===(:)(:)===================================================(:)